Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by TheIronLady, Mar 3, 2013.
Age problem, maybe, but what you accused seems really .......absurd
Oh, I think it makes tons of sense.
Are you a woman who lives alone? If two people I didn't know came to my house at 10:30 at night, I don't think I'd even answer the door, and surely would not let them in the house. I think If Kyoko had a good lawyer pursue the case, the fact that neither person had a valid credential probably should have gotten her off. As it was, this happened in the summer after she retired, so she decided she didn't care what they did.
I think some of you may not realize that you are observed as you pee. You can't just go into a bathroom like you do in the doctors office.
I didn't accuse any skater of anything. I know authorities in China deny all age violations. They have never admitted to anything. Based on the evidence, I do not believe them. So I personally think it it wise to believe they would lie about matters of doping. Why is that absurd?
Anyway I did not want this thread to be about China. People seem to become sensitive and defensive when a national federation, however deserving, is singled out. I am interested in what people think of diuretics and if these are being used much among skaters.
I think they could be, could help maintain weight. maybe Cohen should have used one in 2012 to move those extra two pounds.
I am, and if someone I've never seen before came ringing my doorbell at that hour I'd be sticking my head out the window of my 2nd floor apartment (which is right above the front door of my building, and telling them to clear out immediately before one of two things come cascading down on their heads: a bucket of water, or a 5-pound cast-iron window counterweight (I have two), whichever I can get to first.
Totally agree with you, skatingfanfun! I was amazed by some people's deep rooted bias.
They do, Johnny Weir wrote in his book about several times he couldn't produce a sample after a competition and couldn't leave the arena until he drank enough water to produce.
A recent example of a visit:
Tweet by Mervin Tran
What is even more sad about that is I don't think Mervin is actually Team Japan anymore At least, I'd assume he is trying to get released.
Here is a tweet from Ross Miner. Doesn't sound like these visits are quick...
Here is an article from a track athlete about doping control. It sounds like they get tested out of competition VERY frequently. Three missed tests equal a positive test- so they have to be diligent about alerting the agency to any schedule changes.
If he's not with team Japan who is he with? Is it official that he's done with Japan and skates for Canada? Doping control doesn't know (and shouldn't care) what team he may be with now. They just want his sample; I'm sure they could care less about what country he skates for; he's an eligible skater who still needs to be in compliance, that's their one and only job.
Doping control definetly cares what team they are on- USADA does the out of competition for US athletes, for example. They have no jurisdiction over non-US athletes (by my understanding), maybe the countries contract with each other for overseas athletes through WADA? JADA is in charge of Japan's doping control.
Yes, he is still with Japan, as they would need to release him, but since he is now non-active (until he finds a partner, and I assume that since he won't be able to get citizenship, it is unlikely he'll want another Japanese one) a 7 a.m. wake up call adds a bit of insult to injury.
Since Tran is still an eligible skater (not officially retired) and although he now has a new skating partner from Canada, he still skates for Japan until they release him (which I haven't heard they've done yet.) So doping for him is still in effect for the country he represents...Japan.
Some people seem to think the testers care if he skates for Japan or Canada, they don't. They get the doping request and go out and do it.
7:00 AM, 12:00 PM, 9:00 PM, no one likes it anytime but it's a necessary evil in sports. You can let them know you have pressing personal business like you are getting married or a have a funeral and they usually honor that request; although they don't have to.
Argh! I cannot believe that these stories are still circulating.
The agent's credentials were NOT expired; she didn't have a new sticker yet because WADA hadn't sent it to her. Kyoko did not notice this at the time, anyway.
The agent showed up when she did because when she notified Kyoko that a drug test was due, Kyoko sent her a fax saying she was going out to dinner and would be home around 10. The drug test was supposed to be done that day (which was stated in the request), so the woman showed up then to do it.
Kyoko refused to give a sample because she didn't think she had to, as she was planning to retire. The man who accompanied the agent (not her boyfriend, but someone who was there so the agent wouldn't be alone at night) advised Kyoko to call a lawyer before she signed the paper refusing to give the sample, which she also declined.
All of this came out at the hearing, Kyoko was sanctioned, and then she issued her statement about being confused about whether she had to give a sample.
"Since Tran is still an eligible skater (not officially retired) and although he now has a new skating partner from Canada,"
Has that been officially announced? I know he's had try outs but didn't know a choice had been made....
Nothing has been officially announced AFAIK. This is the only (hearsay) info that's been posted that I know of: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/sho...-and-updates&p=3853458&viewfull=1#post3853458
Thank you, that clears up a lot.
If he doesn't get a partner who is already Canadian he will run into the same citizenship issues as he did with Narumi and even the 2018 Olympics may be out of the question. No matter who he tries out with, she needs to be Canadian; but at any rate he still represents Japan.
Princess Leppard wrote: I think some of you may not realize that you are observed as you pee. You can't just go into a bathroom like you do in the doctors office.
I wondered about that. Maybe Kyoko was tired of that, plus trying to go when someone shows up late and while an unknown dude is standing nearby, or anywhere in your home ,while nobody is there to oversee what he's doing, would be tough.
So do the skaters have to let them know
if they will be away from home for more than one day, do they have to submit their training schedules so the agents know when they are at the rink?
Or maybe Kyoko refused because she was planning to retire and didn't think she had to, exactly as she said.
There is no requirement that they be at the rink except after competitions; the agents contact the athletes and the athletes tell the agents when and where they will be available for testing. When Kyoko sent the fax to the agent, the agent took it as Kyoko scheduling an appointment, as that is what the athletes are supposed to do.
If they are away from home and their names come up, a local agent is sent out to do the test.
Mervin Tran is included in this ISU Figure Skating Registered Testing Pool 2012/13 document (scroll down) which is why he was eligible to be tested out of competition when someone knocked on his door in the early morning hours in January 2013:
More information can be found on USFS' site: http://www.usfsa.org/shell.asp?sid=40786
Read the article I posted from the track athlete. It does sound like they are responsible for letting the agency know a pretty detailed schedule.
If she just didn't feel like giving a sample, that sounds pretty haughty or arrogant at best. How was that not going to get her the trouble she ended up getting?
I don't think that was mentioned that she didn't feel like giving a sample. But you really should stop putting assumptions on things that you cannot verify or confirm.
Have you given a lot of urine samples? It took me about fifteen minutes to pee in the stupid cup having KNOWN I was taking a drug test today, drank water, and having been alone in the bathroom without someone watching me try to do it. If someone showed up at my house in the middle of the night and demanded I produce a sample on the spot they'd better hope I'd just had a lot of water and not just used the toilet because if so, they'd be waiting a very, very long time.
(Mine was an employment test, not a USADA test, obviously, but still, it's a lot of pressure when they tell you to go on command.)
I've actually been curious about this since I saw the Anti-Doping video with Rachael Flatt. I know the representative goes in the bathroom/stall with you but are they actually watching you pee? Or they just stand there and not watch you but listen for the sound?
Now I wish I hadn't started this thread.
It's clear that the testing regime would make it necessary to mask or conceal any use carefully.
So do we think any skaters could benefit androgenic steroids? Enough to make it worth the risk of being suspended? It seems unlikely to me. Now diuretics seem more worth the risk for a skater, especially one who is older and trying to control her weight.
I've been drug tested at jobs twice. Yes, they watch you pee, because they have to make sure you aren't substituting fake pee.
It is truly a worthy event.
Are you advocating drug use as long as it can be covered up?