# Sequence vs Combo

Discussion in 'Moves In The Field' started by Firefly123, Apr 15, 2011.

1. ### Firefly123New Member

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Not sure if you already addressed this (I looked through old threads but couldn't find it). I was wondering now that 1/2 loop is classified as a "jump," is "jump-1/2 loop-jump" now considered a combo or is it still a sequence? If it is a combo, can anyone suggest an "acceptable" sequence? (one foot waltz-1/2flip-waltz?)???

2. ### hancaWell-Known Member

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What about any jump, then a little hop (similar to mazurka jump) and axel...

Last edited: Apr 16, 2011
3. ### gkellyWell-Known Member

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What purpose do you need the definition for?

In a competition judged by IJS, it would be considered a three-jump combo.

In other contexts, it might meet definitions for either or both of sequence and combo.

Again, what's the context? In IJS competition none of those half-jumps count as listed jumps, so it would just be connecting moves. If you changed the waltz jumps to axels, it would probably count as a sequence, but I'm not sure about whether a step from the landing of the 1/2 flip to the takeoff of the axel would make a difference -- that's a picky question for a technical specialist.

If you're talking about a context other than IJS competition, then the definitions are looser and either of what you've mentioned would probably satisfy what's required.

4. ### Firefly123New Member

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Well, got to thinking... If it is a 3 jump combo, then what would be an acceptable sequence? (Because a one foot jump is not technically a jump.) When 1/2 loop is taken out of the equation, I could not even come up with a sequence in my head. It's just kind of a picky, technical geeky question that has been bugging me....

Thanks, hanca. So, like flip-mazurka-axel (waltz)....Interesting.... I like it!!!! gkelly would this work?

Also, how many jumps are usually in an ice sequence? Is there a limit like only 3 in a combo?

Last edited: Apr 16, 2011
5. ### gkellyWell-Known Member

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I think so.

Again, if you're thinking in terms of IJS, there need to be at least two listed jumps (singles or higher, not waltz jumps), if there are more than two listed jumps the two highest value ones get scored, and there are strict limits on what can happen on the ice in between the jump (steps or turns).

Some examples would just count as a solo jump with unlisted jumps before and/or after as connecting moves. Other examples that have a turn on the ice between the jumps would count as two separate jump passes.

But in a 6.0 context, the definition wouldn't be that picky.

6. ### hancaWell-Known Member

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Savchenko and Szolkowy were using this season toe loop/ that little hop / toe loop. I know that there was something in the rules about three turns being or not being allowed in jump sequence and don't remember what exactly the rule was, but Savchenko and Szolkowy used this this season and it counted, so it should be correct according to the new rules in IJS marking (even though the second toe loop has a three turn as a part of the toe loop).

7. ### Firefly123New Member

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Thanks for the info. Yes, I see it at 1:00 mark. http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jh4QyzcgJMI&feature=related

Yes, that is what I was trying to figure out. If one takes a "strict" interpretation of the rules,I'm not sure what would be made of:

axel-loop-1/2loop-sal
split jump-toe-mazurka-axel

flip-mazurka-axel (but would have to put down opposite foot for takeoff. Mazurka would be L toe to RFI. Need to put down LFO for takeoff. So that is an extra step.) ????

I think these are sequences....Right?

I want to do something on Combos & Sequences, but need to come up with some examples of sequences.

8. ### toronto_skaterNew Member

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S/S probably hop the 3 turn into the second toe. Most sequences now involve axels on the end (you can do the side toe hop or just step into them) or a flying 3 turn. For example, any listed jump/side toe hop/flying 3 turn/toe loop

9. ### hancaWell-Known Member

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No, they don't. They do the hop and after that normal three turn which is a part of the second toe loop. Look at youtube (this year's FS)

10. ### hancaWell-Known Member

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I am not a tech spec, but I do think that axel-loop-1/2loop-sal is combination and wouldn't be allowed because maximum jumps in combination you are allowed is three. 1/2 loop is now counted as loop, so this would actually be axel-loop-loop-Sal.

The other two you wrote above are sequences (I think).

11. ### Firefly123New Member

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Thanks!

I guess since sequences don't get as many points as combos most skaters don't really do them because they're not worth it. I will try a few for fun...

12. ### Bev JohnstonWell-Known Member

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Here's a fun one: Split jump/Flip/Toe-Loop or Loop. I also like Quarter Flip (I think it was a quarter.... maybe 1/2... can't remember...)/Mohawk to Flip/Toe-Loop.

13. ### hancaWell-Known Member

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That's not a sequence, that's a combination. (the split jump would be probably counted as difficult entry - positive GOE)

14. ### Bev JohnstonWell-Known Member

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Interesting... I thought since the split was a half jump that it could be counted as a sequence. But I guess what you are saying is that the split would not be considered part of the sequence, just an entry to the flip/toe combo? IJS is certainly confusing and it really is worth a skater's while to have a tech specialist look at their program to clarify things like this. I wonder then, would this count as a sequence under 6.0?

15. ### overedgeJanny uber

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It is a half-rotation jump, but AFAIK it's not listed as a jump in the IJS rules, and therefore it officially doesn't exist Same problem with the walley. Either one would count as a connecting move but not as a jump.

16. ### hancaWell-Known Member

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You have there two (full) jumps after each other (without any half jump or turns or anything else between them), which means that it is combination. Split jump wouldn't be counted as a jump but as a difficult entry. But, if you had Full jump, then the half jump and then full jump, then it would be jump sequence.

17. ### hancaWell-Known Member

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Never heard about Quarter Flip. That would mean landing sideways! Good for tearing your meniscus.

1/2 flip - Mohawk-flip-toe loop is also combination. The half flip-Mohawk will be counted as difficult entrance (preceeding steps) if you are lucky, so the markable jumps are just flip-toe loop

18. ### Bev JohnstonWell-Known Member

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The quarter flip actually does exist. It lands somewhat like a ballet hop - take off and landing on same foot.

From http://www.skatejournal.com/jump.html:

19. ### hancaWell-Known Member

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So what is the difference between a quarter fip and half flip?

They both start from a LBI edge assisted by vaulting with the right toe pick, rotate 1/2 revolution then land forward on a toe pick and pushing on FI edge. I really can't see any difference.

20. ### Bev JohnstonWell-Known Member

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The half-flip takes off and lands on opposite feet. So, if you pick with your right, you land forward on your left. Weird, I know, that the quarter is called "quarter", but there it is.

21. ### gkellyWell-Known Member

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I just think of it as a half-flip landing on the picking foot instead of changing feet. And then the push is onto the LF outside edge, continuing in the counterclockwise direction.

The name is not that important.

If I land on the opposite toepick and push to FI edge, I'm set up to do an inside mohawk to repeat the half-flip, do a whole flip from a mohawk entry, or continue with footwork.

If I land on the picking toepick and push to a FO edge, I'm set up to do an outside three turn into a whole flip (as I do in my current program), or continue with footwork, or whatever.

So which toepick you land on will usually depend on what you want to do next.