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RSF forcing Russian coaches to coach only Russians until Sochi

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Ajax, Apr 30, 2011.

  1. Frau Muller

    Frau Muller #1 Dick Button Fan

    I'm wondering if Russia would even allow passports for its top coaches. No passport - no chance to travel. Shades of USSR days when 'untrusted' coaches wouldn't even accompany their students to int'l events. Hope not.
    Last edited: May 2, 2011
  2. Frau Muller

    Frau Muller #1 Dick Button Fan

    Ahhh...very soon Morozov will have to sing this tune:
  3. Ajax

    Ajax Well-Known Member

    Didn't S&Z have to work with Lori Nichol in order to become more expressive in their performances?

    quiqie, thanks for the translation. It's interesting that the Russian Fed wont' object to Amodio or Ando but no mention is made of Fernandez.
  4. hanca

    hanca Well-Known Member

    It looks to me as if Morozov has made deal with RSF. They will allow him to keep Amodio and Ando and in return he will teach the skaters Russian federation sends to him. Compromise.
  5. goldberry99

    goldberry99 Member

    I think these situations can work out to be positive or negative for the skaters depending on the individuals involved.

    Positive: Shpilband's camp of B/A, V/M, & D/W all spoke about how the competitive environment inspired them and pushed them to be better skaters.

    Negative: Grishuk/Platov and Krylova/Ovsiannikov with Linichuk, Yagudin and Plushenko with Mishin. One skater left at least partly because they believed the coach was not giving them enough attention or helping their competitor.

    Now B/A did leave Shpilband, but they chose to do so after having a positive experience for many years, and that's the point, that they can choose based on their needs. Skater/coach/training groups should be decided based on skater's needs which can be based on many things(personality, geography, maturity) other than skill and qualification.

    It shouldn't be decided for them one way or the other. If Russian Skater A would benefit from training with non-Russians and Skater B would benefit more from 100% of a coach's attention, they should find coaching situations to fit them.

    If the Russian Federation's top priority was improving their skaters you'd think their motto would be "Whatever Works."
  6. MorganaLefay

    MorganaLefay Active Member

    This will be very bad for I/K--they needed P/B there!
  7. millipied

    millipied New Member

    There are reports that I/K are leaving Zhulin anyway. So no damage I can see.
  8. Asli

    Asli Well-Known Member

    Really? :confused: Where are they going?
  9. millipied

    millipied New Member

    That is the biggest intrigue next year. There are some hints in the latest Pisseev's interview;)
  10. Rafter

    Rafter Well-Known Member

    I wonder if I&K will be going to Shpilband?
  11. Yukari Lepisto

    Yukari Lepisto Active Member

    That's my guess too. esp. since Piseev said that P/B will be replaced by americans and canadians... wow
  12. hanca

    hanca Well-Known Member

    It would get there quite crowded. They have already at least 6-8 senior teams...

    V&M, D&W, S&S, C&Z, S&B, Tobias/Stagniunas, K&A, Lichtman/Copely...
  13. millipied

    millipied New Member

    There are plenty of other coaches besides S/Z. But Ilinykh already has positive Canton experience.
  14. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

    There are? :eek:
  15. millipied

    millipied New Member

    LOL. I would rep you if I could:)
  16. smartblade

    smartblade New Member

    Don't forget that marina zueva's son Fedor Andreev is now skating with former world medalist Jana Khoklova! and they will be representing Russia next year, and they did place 4th at the russian nationals.
  17. Asli

    Asli Well-Known Member

    What's the point in insisting Russian coaches concentrate on Russian skaters, if then the most promising young ice dancers are sent to coaches who have a whole campful of foreign students? :confused:

    I/K will be Shpilband/Zoueva's number 4 priority at the very best. But from Piseev's words, it does seem like a done deal. :(

    I'm devastated if it is. I was so looking forward to I/K and now they'll probably just be another S/Z team.

    So at least let Zhulin work with Pechalat/Bourzat. I thought they were being ousted to make place for I/K?
  18. Taso

    Taso Well-Known Member

    That's what makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever - why boot P&B and send I&K to a coach who has at least 8 other teams, anyway?
  19. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

    The one thing I like about S&Z is that IMO they treat all of their teams as if they were #1. For any other coaches the Shibutanis would have been way down on the priority list and the coaches would have been thrilled with a top 12 finish. But Zoueva said that they were training them (and politiking I'm sure!) as if they were contenders for the world podium. And then they were! I also always got the sense that they honestly were fine with either D&W or V&M winning, as long as they were #1 and 2. Both teams are given programs that S&Z honestly believe suit their strengths best. It's very different from Linichuk with Domshabs and B&A, IMHO.

    They just want medals. They would train I&K in a manner conducive to winning them and choreograph programs that will get them the points they need. Then it would be up to I&K to follow through.

    Maybe I&K could go to them for a year or two, learn all the technique, win medals, and then move on to a voidier coach? Or Shpilband would let them use an outside choreographer? Yeah, I know... never gonna happen. :(
  20. bek

    bek Guest

    I would imagine that if S/Z don't produce results with I/K that the Russian fed will move them, and then S/Z will also have a p***d of Russian federation after them too.

    Besides perhaps S/Z know very well that the Russians are going to do their darndest to get a contendor by Sochi in dance, and they do have the talent to make it happen. So if this case, why not have them coaching said team. This being said I can't help wonder how the Canadians/US will feel about S/Z taking on I/K.

    I don't know why they couldn't consider other coaches though. Its not like S/Z are the only coaches in the history of the sport who have created Olympic Champs.

    And who knows maybe Igor will play to I/K's more voidy/European style.
  21. Asli

    Asli Well-Known Member

    However, come Sochi, they will have to make a choice while politicking.

    Plus, however fairly they try to divide their time, their time is still divided. It's can't be like having two coaches dedicated to just two couples - only one of them senior - and putting all their hopes and energy into those couples.

    I prefer the technique Zhulin teaches to the technique S/Z teach. Shpilband's teams are doing the tricks, but their overall quality is not as good as the Zhulin or Zazoui teams IMO. Virtue/Moir still throw a lot of snow off their blades and don't have that sweet edge quality that DelShoes and now Pechalat/Bourzat have IMO. Many of the other Shpilband teams have this problem and in addition are sloppy with their free legs and lines.

    Of course as competitive skaters they want to win medals and in CoP quality doesn't count for much. One might say that I/K can only wish to learn to be skate like V/M. However, I find it sad that the art of ice dance as it used to be, can't be transmitted at least to some young dancers. When this generation of coaches are gone, noone will remember how the former ice dancers used to float effortlessly and silently on the ice. :swoon:
  22. millipied

    millipied New Member

  23. MarieM

    MarieM Grumpy Cynical Ice Dance Lover

    IMO that's it. And I predict we'll be getting there sooner than later. Let's say the powers that be haven't been really impressed by some of the results and are willing to make some changes to reflect to that area.
    Quality over poorly done jobs. Let's hope it's true !
  24. marbri

    marbri Hey, Kool-Aid!

    Ah yes, the good old days when only the best skaters with the most wonderful qualities won medals. Not like these young whippersnappers today galloping across the ice on their toepicks kicking up snowstorms.
    manhn and (deleted member) like this.
  25. Asli

    Asli Well-Known Member

    There were politics in the old days and there are still politics under the CoP.

    The skaters in older times had some admirable qualities that today's skaters don't have, such as better flow, smooth and clean edges, better lines and unison. Today's skaters have other admirable qualities that the old skaters didn't have, such as the increased difficulty of the step sequences.

    What I meant with my above post is that I don't want the former qualities to be forgotten in favour of more difficulty, because ice dance has started to look a bit too ragged IMO.

    Maybe the judges could mark down elements that are raggedly done even without visible mistakes and give higher marks to easier but better skated elements. At the moment elements are marked down only for mistakes or when the couple is a lower-level one. Whereas in pairs, judges have started making a finer distinction. For instance, V/T's magnificient 3twist was only level 1 because of its entry, but received such a high GoE that it was worth only 0.14 points less than S/S's level 2 3twist, which didn't have a mistake either. Maybe this kind of marking could help the couples firts perfect what they are doing and then pass to the next level.
    Last edited: May 3, 2011
    Vash01 and (deleted member) like this.
  26. alilou

    alilou Crazy Stalker Lady

  27. PRlady

    PRlady flipflack

    Maybe, my dear Asli, the French teams need to be trained differently so as not to blow big comps. Delschoes blew at least two chances at medals, IIRC, and P/B don't need this mentioned again. S/Z teams, with the exception of Tanith's fall on the CD at the Worlds they were supposed to win, tend to come through with excellent training and nerve.

    There were those who thought Isabel (not Oliver) was sorely lacking some elegant qualities of line and edges, as well, so as usual it's chacon a son gout. ;)
    cholla and (deleted member) like this.
  28. Jaana

    Jaana Well-Known Member

    Yes, that is their weakness, but why should non-Russian experts (choreographers) help Russian skaters to medal?
  29. Asli

    Asli Well-Known Member

    The whole French team needs sports psychologists and this is not only for figure skating. :scream:

    My post was not about French teams. I am talking about the direction I hope Ilinykh/Katsalapov take and in general ice dance takes. The fact that Del/Schoes blew their chances several times and that Fabian is a headcase doesn't change this, their skating skills were still wonderful IMO. There is no rule that says skaters with good edges should make more mistakes. Actually it should be the contrary.
  30. Ajax

    Ajax Well-Known Member

    Ugh, Zueva & Shpilband would snuff the sexy right out of I/K. :(