Royalty Thread #7: Do They Get Frequent Flier Miles?

[skatesindreams]

A lovely photo of HMQ and Prince Charles, released to commemorate the end of the celebrations for her 90th birthday:
https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Nf0XL1QT...lUjznpU-dTKHb-1k5M5aACLcB/s640/2016-12-17.jpg

 

[Skittl1321]

Geez, how do you know that it was obviously chosen by Kate? Frankly, I would imagine that Pippa had a lot of input since she had to wear it. And that Kate approved because it was obviously her wedding.

Ok- I actually agree with you about the "obviously" comment; we have no idea who chose the dress. For all we know, their Mom picked it.

But the "a lot of input" had me laughing. If that's how bridesmaids work in the UK, it is very different from the US. I been a bridesmaid a number of times here and never gotten input; I've paid for and worn whatever dress, ridiculous or wonderful, the bride picked. Heck, I usually was given more input on the BRIDE's dress (since brides often like the bridesmaids to come and give opinions about which dress looks best on them) than my own

 

[aftershocks]

For all we know, their Mom picked it.

Ha ha, yeah. I thought of that possibility too. We don't know what we don't know, not even what we think we do know quite often.

Yes, you are right of course about it being the bride who makes the choices and the ultimate decision. But a survey would have to be done to determine how often bridesmaids might put their foot down on choices that aren't flattering to them. And of course, then be in danger of being kicked out as a bridesmaid. I served as a bridesmaid once and it was a lovely, unique wedding (a quite wonderful and memorable experience). It was a friend's wedding, not a sister's. I loved my custom made outfit which was very flattering (color, styling everything). And because of the outfits being custom made, the other two bridesmaids also had their styling and fit suited to their physiques, although the color and concept detailing was the same as chosen by the bride.

Duchess Kate is quite savvy and stylish (though more conservative and classic than trendy in her choices). I just have an inkling that Kate received fashion styling advice from fashion experts available to her and then she made her own choices with her mother's and her sister's inputs. The Middletons are a close family, with apparently Carol (their mother) being a very strong influence and driving force within the family. Marrying into the Royal Family of course means that some choices were out of the bride and her family's hands. It seems to be a royal tradition not to have a lot of grown-up bridesmaids at royal weddings. The attendants at least at the most recent royal weddings, have usually been young (e.g., only teenager Sarah Armstrong-Jones at Princess Diana's wedding, with lots of younger bridesmaids/ flower girls). None of Diana's sisters served as bridesmaids at her wedding. It could be she didn't want any of them to be her attendants, especially not her sister Sarah who used to date Prince Charles! But it's more likely Diana was given instructions for a lot of the choices that were made, aside from her dress. Who knows, it could be that Kate had to press for her sister Pippa to serve as her main attendant/ Maid of Honor.

Of course, Queen Elizabeth did have older bridesmaids at her wedding after WWII. But maybe that's because she had so many cousins and friends her age, and she was still a Royal Princess at the time, and not Queen yet. It was right after the war and a completely different time before a lot of television coverage. I don't know what occurred at Princess Margaret's wedding and I don't recall pictures, but I think her attendants were younger. Okay, I checked and found a picture of Princess Margaret, her bridegroom and her attendants. They were all younger ladies, teenagers and younger, including Princess Anne:
http://theroyalpost.com/2012/04/13/royal-flower-girls-bridesmaids-page-boys-part-one/
http://theroyalpost.com/2012/04/16/royal-flower-girls-bridesmaids-page-boys-part-two/
http://theroyalpost.com/2012/04/18/royal-flower-girls-bridesmaids-page-boys-part-three/

Scroll down in the first link more than halfway down to find the official portrait of Princess Margaret's wedding group This is a fun link because it also shows Queen Elizabeth's participation as a young Princess and flower girl for numerous weddings. There is a photo where the poster asks whether the little boy who resembles a young Prince Charles is either Prince William of Gloucester or Prince Michael of Kent. To me it looks like Prince Michael of Kent.

Oh well, to wrap it up, it's all anyone's guess surrounding Kate's wedding and Pippa's bridesmaid's dress. We don't know unless we're directly involved. But we can guess and speculate. I saw a video recently where it was reported that there was no intention for Pippa's dress to steal the spotlight (I can't find that particular video). Her dress was so figure flattering that photos of Pippa spawned a number of social media posts and memes celebrating her backside. Here are some videos discussing the dress and the fallout, with Pippa even apparently saying at some later point, "My dress fit a little too well."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAMyYYpPBbk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Y-ZLNMn4LA

Pippa is now planning her own special day on May 20, 2017. Prince George and Princess Charlotte will reportedly be in the wedding party as page boy and flower girl respectively. They are both so adorable:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOT5hKoruWM

Who knows whether Prince Harry will eventually marry Meghan Markle. No speculation because they should be left alone to allow their relationship to develop whichever way it will. Meghan meanwhile definitely has a lot of style whether or not she ever becomes a royal bride: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpZ4T_hTzNM

 

[taf2002]

Re Pippa's dress, I would imagine that Alexander McQueen submitted sketches & they chose from that. That dress was too fabulous for a non-designer to come up with the concept. I doubt any of the Middletons had much input other than saying yes or no.

 

[AxelAnnie]

Re Pippa's dress, I would imagine that Alexander McQueen submitted sketches & they chose from that. That dress was too fabulous for a non-designer to come up with the concept. I doubt any of the Middletons had much input other than saying yes or no.

My thought is just the opposite....all the Middletons had lots of input. Can't imagine why they would not have had.

 

[Skittl1321]

Re Pippa's dress, I would imagine that Alexander McQueen submitted sketches & they chose from that. That dress was too fabulous for a non-designer to come up with the concept. I doubt any of the Middletons had much input other than saying yes or no.

I don't think anyone thinks either Pippa or Kate designed the dress. Selecting a dress that has already been designed is how pretty much ANYONE gets clothes.

 

[AxelAnnie]

Queen cancels traditional Christmas after falling ill... They have bad colds evidently. Wish them a speedy recovery.

 

[Lorac]

Queen cancels traditional Christmas after falling ill... They have bad colds evidently. Wish them a speedy recovery.

Actually the Queen and Prince Philip have just postponed travelling to Sandringham for the moment. They are still currently expected to travel up but probably tomorrow or even Saturday morning.

 

[skatesindreams]

Good!
The article I read seemed "frantic".

 

[Lorac]

OK - so the Queen and Prince Phillip have final set off to Sandringham - but by helicopter which I guess will be a much shorter trip. I would have though it would be chilly but I'm sure they have a really nice helicopter to travel in.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38405648

There has been a very nasty cold/virus floating around for a while that really knocks people off their feet - and being 90 and 95 they must have felt pretty bad not to get in a car/train for a few hours.

 

[Jenny]

I'm glad they are feeling well enough to get to their beloved Sandringham

 

[Coco]

You can not have these two, 2016!!!

 

[Skittl1321]

I was very impressed with Prince Charles's statement about extreme populism that seems to be sweeping many western countries. Good for him for speaking out.

 

[aftershocks]

Re Pippa's dress, I would imagine that Alexander McQueen submitted sketches & they chose from that. That dress was too fabulous for a non-designer to come up with the concept. I doubt any of the Middletons had much input other than saying yes or no.

Pippa's bridesmaid's dress was designed by Sarah Burton for Alexander McQueen (the design label). McQueen himself, the designer and founder of the label had died in February 2010.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-3621663/Now-wear-Pippa-Middleton-s-bridesmaid-s-dress.html

 

[Vagabond]

McQueen himself, the designer and founder of the label had died in February 2010.

Facts!

 

[Skittl1321]

Though I suppose she isn't a royal, I'm very sad to read about Zara's loss. I'm due early spring and just hit my third trimester, even due late spring this wouldn't be an early loss, and I think the late ones are especially hard. I woke up this morning crying that my son wasn't having his first Christmas (though this is our second without him) and wish her well getting through what is likely a difficult day.

 

[aftershocks]

^^ Yes, I was just coming here to post about Zara's miscarriage. That's so sad. I have no idea if it's worse to have it happen early in the pregnancy or late (probably early is better than later when you've carried the baby longer and it feels more like a person you can't wait to see). Good that they have their daughter Mia to dote on during this difficult time. Hopefully, Zara will rest up and find out from doctors what went wrong. I used to know someone who had to stay in bed to carry a baby full term after a series of miscarriages.

Obviously, Zara has already given birth before, so it could have been something inevitable. If there was something wrong with how the fetus was developing, it's best that the miscarriage happened spontaneously. But it surely is no less heartbreaking for any parents to go through.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4063796/Zara-Mike-Tindall-lost-baby.html

Sorry to hear about your loss @Skittl1321. Best wishes in the New Year.

Are you sure that Zara Tindall is not considered 'royal'? Of course she is not HRH, and she has no courtesy title (her father is a commoner; Princess Anne and her first husband, Mark Phillips, both refused courtesy titles for their children). Certainly Zara is a member of the British royal family and she's formally in line for the throne, which carries some status. She kind of has the best of both worlds: some royal privileges, without the headaches of being over-scrutinized and restricted in one's career choices, and relationship choices.

 

[Skittl1321]

She's a member of the royal family, but having no title at all, I guess I don't consider her a "royal".

As for miscarriages, an early loss is certainly a loss, and can be very difficult. but many people seem to process them better as less "bonding" has occurred. I had a third trimester loss, not a miscarriage, so I'm only projecting my experience from those in pregnancy loss communities.

 

[aftershocks]

^^ Thanks for sharing @Skittl1321. It's obviously so hard to go through. Many years ago, one of my sisters lost a full term baby that was overdue, but the doctors did not seem to think it necessary to induce labor. Or maybe the calculation was off for when the baby was due. Plus my sister had been working while pregnant. She was healthy but maybe her body was overtaxed from having given birth to a daughter about a year earlier. Before that, she'd had five years between the births of each of her previous children. In any case, it was devastating that the umbilical cord somehow strangled the baby in the womb. Otherwise, the baby boy was beautiful and healthy but stillborn. Such experiences are unimaginable.

In Royalty news, I saw this report that the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge prefer not sending either of their children to boarding school. I don't blame them: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGoXQsAq0-U

Apparently, Zara Tindall and her husband also wish to break with that royal tradition for their daughter, Mia. William, Kate, and Zara all wish for their children to have a 'normal' family upbringing. It probably helps royal children to be better rounded, more caring and in tune with regular people. It's probably not as much an issue for Mia, as for Princess Charlotte and Prince George, who have more spotlight on them.

I think that William and Harry attended a day school before going off to boarding school around ages 11 or 12. Kate also attended boarding school, I believe, as a teenager. ETA: As I recall, I do not think that Diana particularly wanted to part with either of her boys re the boarding school tradition. But she apparently didn't have much say in the matter back then. Kudos to William and Harry for remembering the best of what their Mom gave them and for trying to pass that on in how they live their lives.

Kate and William attended church on Christmas Day with Kate's family; they are celebrating Christmas with the Middletons instead of joining the Queen at Sandringham per royal tradition:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71RZ5JKkyyk
The reason why makes sense:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mx891oBSUJs

At 3 years old, Prince George is excited to open his gifts and get at what's inside. He was more excited about the wrapping paper rather than what was inside in previous years: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47iFnZvFoAo

The Queen was still under the weather and for the first time in 30 years, she did not attend church with the rest of the Royals on Christmas Day at Sandringham estate.

The Queen's Christmas Day message (prerecorded): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zscqxgDc9f8

 

[Skittl1321]

So talking about titles. Now that the first born daughter would not be 'bumped' in line from the throne; do children on the female side get titles the way they would if they were born instead to a son of the monarch?

IE when William is King, George's children will be HRH; but Charlotte's wont (like Anne's aren't)- but will they be now? Because if Charlotte had been born first, her status would have been different, so the way they status females has changed.

 

[MsZem]

The Princess Royal and Mark Phillips declined a title for him, which means that their children are untitled. I'm not sure if anything has been finalized re Princess Charlotte's future children, given how young she is

Other countries don't necessarily do things the same way: Princess Caroline of Monaco's youngest daughter is a princess (her elder children are not, because their father was untitled). Princess Madeleine of Sweden's kids are a princess and a prince even though their father is a private citizen.

Speaking of Swedish royals - good news as Queen Silvia has been released from the hospital.

Also, cute pictures of Prince Jacques and Princess Gabriela of Monaco.

 

[Skittl1321]

Is Kate pregnant again and I somehow missed it? Or was the article I read bs?

 

[Vagabond]

Kate and Irina are always pregnant. Always.

 

[aftershocks]

^^ I guess it figures since Kate's Wu-Tang mess.be alias is Shriekin' Magician

Kate and William likely want to relax and enjoy raising George and Charlotte for at least another year or two before trying for more children. Kate does not have easy pregnancies in the early stages.

 

[aftershocks]

Queen Elizabeth I's (Elizabethan age QE) long lost skirt has been re-discovered and will go on display:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...-lost-skirt-found-church-altar-herefordshire/

"Is Queen Elizabeth II watching The Crown?"
http://people.com/royals/queen-elizabeth-watching-netflix-crown/

Meanwhile, Prince Harry and his girlfriend Meghan have been managing to escape the long lens of the paparazzi, while still spending time together:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...han-markle-travel-norway-see-northern-lights/
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...o-week-charity-trip-India-security-fears.html
http://people.com/royals/prince-harry-meghan-markle-first-holiday-together-norway-northern-lights/

ETA:
Have you seen this @skatesindreams, and others interested in British Royalty? A brief documentary on the lead up to the wedding of HRH Princess Elizabeth and Philip Mountbatten:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNG-SLrxVt0 Part 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWs43vwVR8E Part 2

Of course many things are familiar, but I wasn't aware of some of the specific details surrounding the mood of the country, the focused and well-tuned effort to include the populace as part of the wedding, and the fascinating specifics of how well Elizabeth knew her own mind and heart, plus how intent Philip was on being his own self and winning Elizabeth's hand on his own merits. As well the bit of intrigue and machinations of Philip's uncle, Lord Mountbatten (boy was he a charmer & a mischievous personality publicly with a very complicated and secretive private life).

Princess Elizabeth's wedding apparently was the first royal wedding to be shared so publicly with the populace. Prior to that development in the aftermath of the hardships resulting from WWII and changing times, royal weddings had been conducted more privately.

The Queen's coronation:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e23TiPaNY1w Part 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BGFgT0piJI Part 2

Video of the actual coronation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ssh8NEltCac
Fascinating as it happens so rarely. Never in many of our lifetimes.

 

[centerstage01]

Happy 35th birthday to Catherine, Duchess of Cambridge!

 

[skatesindreams]

Have you seen this @skatesindreams, and others interested in British Royalty? A brief documentary on the lead up to the wedding of HRH Princess Elizabeth and Philip Mountbatten:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNG-SLrxVt0 Part 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWs43vwVR8E Part 2

Thanks!
I had never seen the documentary; although I was familiar with much of the content.

 

[skatesindreams]

Sad news:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/13/world/europe/antony-armstrong-jones-earl-snowdon-dies.html?_r=0

 

[aftershocks]

^^ Thanks for posting. Sorry to hear the sad news. Condolences to his loved ones, especially his children and grandchildren. In addition to his children by Princess Margaret (Lady Sarah, and David, Viscount Linley), Snowden had a daughter from a second marriage (Lady Frances von Hofmannsthal), and reportedly another daughter and a son, both out of wedlock (Polly Fry & Jasper Cable Alexander). I haven't heard much about Lord Snowden in recent years. I suppose he has led a life out of the limelight glare in his elder years.


I've been watching a BBC documentary on PBS about the Royal Princes (Philip, Charles, William, Harry, & very briefly George -- he's still so young). One detail mentioned that I hadn't heard previously is that the former Princess Elizabeth contracted measles 10 days after giving birth to Prince Charles, and so as an infant, he was separated from his mother for awhile which fractured their ability to bond during a crucial period. In addition, Elizabeth did not visit Charles in the nursery often when he was growing up because she did not have fond feelings for the nanny who took care of her children (the nanny was a holdover from Princess Elizabeth's own childhood). Also, of course, when Elizabeth became Queen she was separated from young Charles and Anne quite often when she went on tour. Charles had a rather sensitive personality, unlike Anne, so the lack of strong bonding with his parents affected Charles more. Charles was closer to his grandmother, the Queen Mother, and later to his great uncle, Lord Mountbatten, than he was to his parents.

The BBC documentary on the Princes is fairly recent but not recent enough to contain any coverage of Harry's much buzzed about and scrutinized new relationship. There are current media reports that Harry introduced his girlfriend Meghan to Duchess Kate and Princess Charlotte on January 10 at Kensington Palace (Meghan apparently met Prince William previously).

I wonder whether Harry might be given a Dukedom when he decides to marry. It's not necessarily a matter of course, but likely expected. I found this interesting website that offers information about protocol and tradition regarding the bestowing of titles on children and grandchildren of monarchs:
http://www.royalhistorygeeks.com/what-title-will-harrys-wife-and-children-have/

According to the researcher who created the site, Harry has at some point expressed a preference (should he receive a Dukedom) for the Sussex title/designation:
"When Harry marries he will probably be given a peerage most likely a Dukedom, but potentially an Earldom like Prince Edward [Earl of Wessex]. Even if this doesn’t happen on marriage [for Harry], it is highly likely to take place once Charles ascends. If Harry is created (let’s say) ‘Duke of Sussex’ (the title he is rumoured to desire) it’s good news for his wife. She would then be styled Her Royal Highness The Duchess of Sussex."

If Harry doesn't receive a title upon marrying, his wife would be known as HRH, Princess Henry of Wales. If Diana and Charles had more sons, then a third son would most likely be given an Earldom as in the case of Queen Elizabeth's third son, Edward.

It's also interesting that children of Prince Harry would be known as Lord/ Lady Mountbatten-Windsor (combined great-grandfather/ great-grandmother surnames preceded by their own given first names). Queen Elizabeth could decide to intervene and style Harry's children as Prince or Princess, as she did in the case of Princess Charlotte -- who as the second child of Prince William would have received the title of Lady until her grandfather Prince Charles ascended to the throne. Same for Harry's kids who would automatically become Prince/ Princess when Charles is crowned King. However, as indicated, it's likely that Queen Elizabeth would style Harry's children as Prince/ Princess upon birth, unless Harry and his future wife decline.

Prince Charles is known to prefer cutting back on the number of royal titles being bestowed, which has been a source of friction in recent years between him and his brother, Prince Andrew Duke of York. Prince Andrew is said to want his daughters to be given more status and responsibilities as royals, while Prince Charles wishes to limit the number of royals whose royal duty-related expenses are funded under the Civil List. Princess Anne famously declined for her husband to receive a royal title, nor did she wish any for her children. According to the royal researcher:

"We hear much talk of Charles wanting to ‘shrink’ the Royal family. While this would be disastrous for Royal watchers like me, there is a chance that he may further restrict HRH to those in direct line of succession – freeing his other descendants from the burden or privilege (depending how you see it) of Royal titles. As such Harry’s children may never be technically considered Royal – although this is entirely speculation."

This same Royal researcher/blogger's take on Prince Harry's new relationship and the media storm:
http://www.royalhistorygeeks.com/if...-would-leave-harry-and-his-girlfriends-alone/

The blogger says these history books are on his New Year's reading list:
http://www.royalhistorygeeks.com/5-books-on-my-new-year-reading-list/

 

[aftershocks]

What a shame about the travails of Lord Snowden's marriage to Princess Margaret. Initially, they were attracted to each other and entered into an affair, and in hindsight that's where it should have ended. Sadly, it was around the time of Margaret's relationship with Tony that she learned of the great love of her life, Peter Townsend's, imminent marriage to a Belgian beauty with a striking resemblance to her. Soon afterward (on the rebound) Margaret decided to become engaged to marry Tony. On the rebound is a very bad way to begin a marriage. It probably happens quite often though.

The saddest thing of all is that as reported in Lord Snowden's NYTimes obituary, royal family members were more sympathetic to Lord Snowden (Tony). In fact, Margaret & Tony both had volatile tempers and hurt each other in incredibly cruel ways. Tony apparently took delight in mocking Margaret and informing her in sly ways about how much he hated her. The only thing good about the relationship is their two children (Sarah & David) who both seem kind, sane and well-adjusted, in addition to being very productive and accomplished artists.

At some point, I hope there will be a well written biography and BBC film series that does true justice to Margaret's story. Right now, Margaret will apparently continue to suffer in the shadow of her calm and dutiful older sister, the Queen. It's just like all the references to Diana in the largely p.r. royal histories these days are couched in terms of Diana being sad, unhappy and unstable (her only saving grace is having been a good and loving mother to her sons). The commentaries are generally protective of the Queen and Prince Charles in relation to Diana, although there is sometimes reference to Charles and Diana both being needy, and Charles not doing enough to save his marriage. Again, it was a marriage that did not begin on a good foundation, and again the two parties were temperamentally wrong for each other.

It's perhaps fair to note that there have been so many disastrous and unhappy relationships and divorces (not to mention the cutting off wives' heads history of Henry VIII) within the royal family. Also, the King Edward abdication crisis, and the Townsend affair that devastated Margaret's life and her relationship with her sister, in addition to the recently revealed romantically star-crossed story of William of Gloucester and the older divorced woman he loved but was made to give up (and then he died in an accidental or suicidal plane crash at the age of 30).

I mean, after all of that added to Diana & Charles' failed union along with Diana's premature death and Charles' subsequent marriage to a divorced woman he loved all along, why should there be any impediment to whom Prince Harry (who will never become King) chooses to date or to marry. By this juncture, I would take the Queen's reported words at face value that she's "delighted to see Harry in a loving relationship." I'm sure Princess Diana is somewhere feeling very happy for her sons and resting peacefully.