Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Maofan7, Apr 27, 2013.
Kim Yu-Na Documentary/Interview
Yu-Na was not juniorish by any measure in 2006 JWC when she won the gold. Its not just me who saw it that way.
I remember reading a Japanese sports journalists report at the scene which said, as Kim stepped on the ice, the atmosphere (the air) in the rink changed, that there was a performers presence in her skating which the Japanese oppositions lacked, and that even her jumps and spins took on the essence of her programs.
I also remember Nancy Kerrigan commentating on the event during a delayed broadcast that Kim showed maturity beyond her age as her skating reflected the ebb and flow of the program music.
Gosh, I dont take pleasure in posting about these old things. Please spare me and yourselves. Kim was a fundamentally better jumper AND performer in that competition (2006 JWC), same as today. Nothing has changed really, substantially, except that the rotation and edge calls have been implemented since then. Different technical layouts for Asada in that event? Same for Kim, as the ISU rules at the time didnt allow 3-3s in ladies SP in JWC. And who has better 3-3 of them all?
I dont see any point in you guys pushing this poll, since I think all of Slutskaya, Arakawa, Cohen, Kostner, and even Kim (if she had been there) would have been great in technique and presentation, had they skated all clean. All Asada had at the time were marginal (pre and/or under rotated) 3a and some then-light quality in her stroking with some junior-looking programs. Am I wrong? She didnt have true lutz, salchow, or even an ina bauer in her field moves, which is still to be seen in her skating, in competition or shows. I wouldnt say her skating/jumps has deteriorated since then, but rather has remained the same. Am I wrong?
How funny this poll is. You never know who will win at the Olympics.
yes, you are wrong, Mao actually included 2 lutzes at that time in her programs, she also had the salcow, and as a matter of fact she even practiced a quad salcow, she had several 3-3 and a gourges 3A, as for other field moves she had plenty of them, but one that i must be mention is her gourges layback!
Asada WASN’T EVEN TRYING taking off on her lutz on the correct edge at the time. I didn’t blame her, since the edge calls weren’t implemented back then, so it didn't matter anyway, sort of. Salchows? She didn’t have one then, and she still doesn’t have a correct position and takeoff on her salchows still now. I would call that a sal-loop, since it looks like she has invented a new jump.
As for laybacks, Kim has an excellent one, fast, centered, with her back facing deep downwards. You don’t see many ladies going that far back, unlike somebody who tilt the back facing sideway. Kim’s is a fundamentally sound and true layback. I understand some nitpicking on her foot position, but she has vastly improved on that over the recent years.
I see you guys want to underrate Kim as a spinner. The way I see it, she is an EXCELLENT spinner, with ample ability in handling difficult positions with decent speed and centering, and very clean, simple and athletic entering moves. And she very well incorporates the COP-demanding spins into her programs, reflecting the themes of each program. Cases in point: her trademark inverted camel into a donut in The Lark Ascending, all of her spins in Miss Saigon which effectively brought out the fine nuances in ambience of changing phases in that program. And all her spins in the impeccable Les Misrables, to name a few. The way she handles and somehow incorporates these difficult COP requirements is just wonderful. It was observed in the same vein by the Japanese skating reporter who was present at the 2006 JWC. He said back then, Kim’s spins were not just to meet COP level requirements, but also took discreet and profound forms within the programs reflecting the themes of the music. I would say he had keen eyes even back then.
I admire your blind love for Asada, but let’s be objective.
LOL, THIS for me just confirmed that you have not watched a single performance of Mao from junior years nor have you seen the protocols, because if you had done that, you would have seen that she had all kind of jumps in her arsenal and GOT THEM ALL RATIFIED, the protocols don't lie, every performance is filmed and can be replayed.
As for you funny comment about Mao's salcow and loop being new invented jumps, well these jumps have been there for ages, and Mao's loop and sal are some of the best you will find, you really need to try harder because it's these kind of comment that expose your blindness and denial of reality.
now as to your comments to Kim's layback being flexible and so on.... it's just rubbish, and I don't want to waste my energy in explaining everything wrong with her spins, Kim herself as often admitted to having a very inflexible back, and it has only gotten worse with time.
why do you think she long ago stopped doing the biellman spin and never does Y-spin, it's because she isn't flexible, her inflexibility was apparent not only in her spins but even in her spirals!
but they didnt. So what is your point. From what I see this isnt one of those if everyone had skated cleanly fantasy polls. It is based on what actually happened, and flat out would Asada have won. I dont think Mao would have won had Slutskaya or Arakawa knocked it out of the park with 3-3s and all, but based on the standard of skating at the Olympics as it was, Mao would have probably won with most of her performances that season, or atleast won silver. Why wouldnt many assume she would replicate her performances from most of the season, when she proved she could handle pressure.
How about Amy03 naming two or three great qualities in Yuna's skating for a change and lowtherlore doing the same thing for Mao's skating?
I suspect they'd rather have a root canal. How about just start with just 1.....baby steps
Could have should have would have... oh why bother compete anymore. If we go by this theory, then no one should be allowed to criticize Patrick's win, at least he competed and won and his skating skills is truly out of this world 'in theory'.
Or just change the name of each skater in every post : Mao instead of YuNa and YuNa instead of Mao.
LOL. Amy03 would rather perform hara-kiri than compliment Kim. It's funny how you can tell all her posts on various boards are the same person with her generic "American" user-name and her love for excessive exclamation marks.
Either silver behind Arakawa or Kim,. or bronze behind both IMO.
This is a sport where Kevin Reynolds can win the 4CCs, the indomitable Japanese men (including one skating God) can be ALL off the podium. Where Dennis Ten from Kazakhstan has a good case of winning the world championship over Patrick Chan IN Canada. Where Rachel Flatt has won over a pre-Olympic Yuna at skate America in FS. They are all the reasons why I watch the sport, that despite the COP, reputations, politics, baggage home advantages, incredible past histories etc... that some how all skaters on ice are suppose to be equal. Ice is slippery and be unpredictable. Nothing is certain. It is all life's drama, not some mills and boons where there are always a predictable happy ending.
What I am saying is anyone keep crowning Mao with the unofficial title of OGM 2006 and think somehow she deserves it are in Lala land. Likely some propaganda message dream up by crrrrrrazy Hollywood Agents like IMG to market her (well it worked), or some desperate attempt her enthusiastic fans are still trying to justify why she is the best, in which case actually do not helping Mao at all. Imagine training hard and think that some how you 'deserve' an OGM, you 'could' have already been an OGM and that you 'should have' already got an OGM, but some how you did not get an OGM and even lost to a nobody at worlds juniors by some 20 points. Imagine living with that idea all your career, and the fans and press keep reminding you of it everywhere. It seems crazy amount pressure and baggage to be carrying around. Talk about having a chip on her shoulder, or how about one giant heavy rock that makes it hard to rise from on top of the triple axel.
I voted 4th. I dont think she would have won with everyone skating cleanly, but with Arakawa, Cohen, and Slutskaya all making mistakes she could have won with a clean performance and all her difficulty (triple axels and triple-triples are a must for her though, even with those 3 all not skating cleanly even without any triple-triple tries), but I think she would have cracked under pressure. She was already faltering, losing World Juniors badly to Kim by alot of points, and losing Japanese event to Suguri.
While I believe it would have been difficult for Mao to win the Gold in 2006, the last thing I would accuse her of is "having a chip on her shoulder!"
At the 2006 GPF, Mao beat everyone, including the 2005 world champ, the 2004 world champ, and all other top skaters. The ur issue was not a big one those days. Mao had a 3-3 combination, a 3A and a 3A-2t combination. Plus she had (still has) lovely positions. As a youngster she would have felt less pressure than the experienced skaters. It's reasonable to assume that she would have won the 2006 OGM, had she been allowed to compete.
Yu na was still coming into her own back then. She did not really blossom until 2008 or 2009. That was also the time (2009 in particular) when the judges started punishing Mao for her impefect technique on some jumps. Mao was denied a great opportunity in 2006, by the age rule.
so typical of a kimbot, trying to insult me and speak nonsense, a nice and effective way to avoid the subject/discussion
I have not accused her of anything. However my point is this chip has been placed on her solely by the public (and perhaps by her own agency/press). I am continued to be surprised by the amount of whine about the age rule and the automatic assumption that some how she would have won when skating history has indicate her chances is slim (lost some 20 points to Kim around the same Olympic month) or as good as anyone. Otherwise Kurt and Michelle would have been multiple OGMs already and there'd be no need to compete. Just give the medal to Patrick now. Same with Yuna, D&W, V&T.
Shizuka Arakawa won the OGM in 2006 fair and square. It has been almost 8 years already, and we have this poll practically every other few months. It might be wiser for her fans to get over it, and focus on what she need to do in the future. (Then again, it wouldn't be FSU Trashcan without these sort of polls... it is like green hogs day over and over and over and over again! Without ever being over...)
Uh, you did say "talk about having a chip on her shoulders"......
Should've Would've Could've. Get over it. Move on.
It didn't happen.
Mao Asada at the 2013 Prince Ice World show
Chopin's Ballade No. 1
With Fans (Part 2, Part 3)
Leaving The Ice
So just because I happen to call you out I'm automatically a Kim-bot. Read my previous posts and look at my join date, precious.