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Polish President dies in plane crash

Discussion in 'Politically Incorrect' started by CantALoop, Apr 10, 2010.

  1. CantALoop

    CantALoop Well-Known Member

  2. JJH

    JJH Well-Known Member

    (((Polish President's family))) (((Cabinet Members' families)))
  3. BittyBug

    BittyBug Dispirited

    What a horrible tragedy. My thoughts are with the people of Poland today.
  4. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

    A lot of government ministers and other various government officials (Head of Central Bank, Army Chief of Staff, etc.) as well as Parliament members (of both Lower and Upper House) have died in the crash too.

    Presidential election was expected to happen later this year, IIRC, but in this situation Komorowski, the Marshall (Speaker) of the Lower House and now the acting president has to organise a presidential election in the next 60 days (the Left's presidential candidate Jerzy Szmajdzinski has also died in the crash).

    Members of Sejm (the Lower House) who have died will be replaced by those who have placed below them on their party lists at the last election (we use a proportional representation election system with open lists - so you don't just vote for a particular party but also choose a name out of around 20 listed for each party).

    An election will have to be held (perhaps together with the presidential one?) to replace the members of the Senate who have died in the crash.

    Until the Senate elections have been held, certain government ministers/officials cannot be replaced because the Senate has to approve them...

    The Civil Liberties Representative who has died has to be replaced and nobody knows how to choose him because a new bill has been passed and waits to be signed by both houses of the Parliament so it's unclear whether the old or new election procedure should be employed...

    Politics in Poland is at an extremely immature, playground level at the best of times and I really fear for how it's all going to work out now, in the aftermath of a substantial part of the political elite having died with the confusion that will follow...
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2010
    deltask8er and (deleted member) like this.
  5. Megi

    Megi Well-Known Member

    This is very shocking and sad. (((Poland)))

    And thanks for the info, Ziggy. Hope this doesn't create any additional mess in Poland and that everybody behave with dignity and quit the usual bickering in face of this tragedy.
  6. gosia.douceur

    gosia.douceur New Member

    The head of the Polish Olympic Committee as well, among others. I find it hard to believe that our country lost so many important people in one moment... RIP!
  7. igniculus

    igniculus Well-Known Member

    When I first heard this tragic news, I immediately thought on you guys, Megi, Gosia, and Ziggy. :fragile: Stay strong, Poland.

    How unusual to have so many important political, strategical and economical leaders travel on the same plane. :(
  8. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

    Everybody is behaving in a very diginified and respectful way today and there is no sign of the usual bickering but I fear it won't last long. :(

    That's the point that is being raised a lot today and one lesson to be learned. This really shouldn't have been done.

    As for the reason for the tragedy, there was a thick fog and the airport most likely didn't have a navigation system to guide the plane in such difficult conditions.

    The pilot should have refused to land because of the weather conditions but I guess he felt a lot of pressure, it was a very important ceremony and going back to Moscow to land would mean delays or cancellations and he insisted on attempting to land four times in a row...
  9. Yehudi

    Yehudi Snarks about Volchkova with love

    I know the USFSA deliberately puts their team members on different flights to avoid having situations like the one in 1961. I would think other organizations, for security reasons, would do something similar.

    I can't imagine the chaos right now with so many of the countries leaders dying.
  10. Angelskates

    Angelskates Well-Known Member

  11. equatorial

    equatorial Well-Known Member

    The plane was going from Warsaw directly to Smolensk. Kaczyński insisted that it was a "private visit" IIRC, hence the persistence to land in Smolensk no matter what instead of landing in Moscow or Minsk as the air traffic controllers insisted. Plus, they weren't going to make it by 3 pm to Katyn where the memorial ceremony was going to take place if they rerouted the plane. In 2008 the very same plane with Kaczyński landed in Baku, instead of Tbilisi where it headed for, due to weather conditions, Again IIRC, there were reports that the president was very irritated and the pilot was to be "disciplined". It is never a good idea to tell the pilots what to do. And putting so many VIPs on one plane?! OMG...

    My heart goes to the Poles :(
  12. Anita18

    Anita18 Well-Known Member

    The US government might do this as well. I rarely hear of so many leaders traveling together. Usually they're off doing something else separately.

    How unimaginably terrible. :fragile: Stay strong, Poland.
  13. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

    Thanks for all the info.

    It does become clear now why the pilot would refuse to land in Moscow or Minsk.

    I shouldn't think this way about the recently departed but OMG Kaczyński :rolleyes:...
  14. equatorial

    equatorial Well-Known Member

    It is still unclear whether someone told the pilots to land no matter what. It's just seems plausible, as they tried to land the plane 3 times in thick fog and crashed during their 4th attempt.
  15. bek

    bek Guest

    If the Russians are smart they will have an international task force investigate this, because I fear what kind of conspiracy theories will start to develop.
  16. skatesindreams

    skatesindreams Well-Known Member

    My sympathy to all affected by the tragedy.
  17. equatorial

    equatorial Well-Known Member

    It was reported that Russia and Poland are cooperating closely in the investigation. They didn't even remove the bodies from the plane as yet.
  18. bek

    bek Guest

    That is very good.. This whole thing is such a horrible tragedy.
  19. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

    Yes, the fact the Polish government officials were flying to commemorate the Katyn massacre that the Russian government still refuses to take full responsibility for and apologise (the massacre of Polish prisoners of war by the Soviet NKVD in 1940) - although a lot of progress has been made recently - means that conspiracy theories are bound to flourish. :scream:
  20. Buzz

    Buzz Well-Known Member

    Condolences to the country of Poland and the victims families. R.I.P.
  21. PDilemma

    PDilemma Well-Known Member

    This is why American officials--President, Vice President, Cabinet Officials, Speaker of the House and others--travel in military planes and often land on bases. I've seen lots of b*tching and moaning about that online lately--especially for those officials below the President having that privilege, but it is for safety and security reasons.
  22. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

    Other countries do not have their military bases everywhere around the world though. ;)
  23. shah

    shah Shhh... shhh...

    I'm still in deep shock after this tragedy...apart from the President and his wife, many important politicians, members of the Katyn Families organisation, army chiefs, not to mention the plane staff and guards died...
    all Polish TV stations provide the latest news concerning this catastrophe, but there's a general atmosphere of shock and grief...a national week of mourning was announced...

    I often disagreed with the opinions of many of those people, the President wasn't my favourite politician, but all this bias fades in the face of such a dramatic event...sending my prayers to the families and all who still suffer from shock...
  24. equatorial

    equatorial Well-Known Member

    This shouldn't belong in this thread, but as much as I hate the NKVD, I still have no idea why the Russian government should apologize for the actions of Stalin and Beria.
    ETA: And you are wrong. Yeltsin apologized publicly (and quite dramatically) when he as laying flowers at the Katyn monument in Warsaw during his visit in 1993. He did it as a private person I think.
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2010
  25. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

    Well it would be nice to bury the hatchet and move on. :p

    You're right that the issue of "responsibility" is a complex one, however.
  26. Rex

    Rex Well-Known Member

    Sympathies to the nation of Poland :(.
  27. bek

    bek Guest

    I see the point, but I can also see why the Russians resent the idea that they are responsible for all of the Soviet Union's atrocities. In this case the head of the Soviet Union at that time wasn't even Russian..
  28. equatorial

    equatorial Well-Known Member

    There, as I am a Russian citizen, please accept my apologies. Hatchet buried? Can we move on?
  29. deltask8er

    deltask8er Well-Known Member

  30. kittyjake5

    kittyjake5 Well-Known Member

    I just heard about this terrible news. My condolences to the people of Poland and to the families who lost their loved ones in this tragedy.