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Patrick Chan sees Japan blunders as wake-up call

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sugar, Oct 7, 2012.

  1. jettasian

    jettasian New Member

    Not only that....many skaters FALL on jumps too, not just Chan. But it seems like every time Chan falls, they have to "highlight" it, there, there, he FALLS, he FALLS!!! SO HE MUST NOT WIN!!! I don't see other skaters' marks get CSI treatments like Chan's. It's just pathetic and desperation.
  2. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Hates both vegemite and peanut butter

    Exactly. One of the aims of the IJS is to separate the technical from the components and mark them independently. You have to give skaters credit for what they do really well, regardless of the mistakes that might happen on the elements. When you are judging it really is like having a switch in your head which goes "component, component, element, component component, element, etc etc etc". The only component mark you can reasonably ding for poor performance is the Peformance/Execution mark. And that would be because the skater lets the mistakes affect the performance eg posture, expression, energy. If the skater still skaters their socks off regardless of the mistakes, you still have to give them credit for it.

    Totally agree. If you are going to criticise a skater be constructive, not random. Because it is not the skater that people then focus on but yourself.

    Totally agree.
    DaveRocks and (deleted member) like this.
  3. jettasian

    jettasian New Member

    I don't know how much impact Chan's falls had for the TES, but to think that his SS is 4th is just ridiculous! And I must laugh at Dai's predictable over the top arms and facial expressions got him 9s. Yeah, if you want to be "Artistic" you must bring the drama! :rolleyes:
    Quadloop and (deleted member) like this.
  4. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Hates both vegemite and peanut butter

    :lol: Yeah but he didn't have the highest components which according to some is what Chan deserves because he fell. So that must make the nay sayers happy.
  5. jettasian

    jettasian New Member

    I thought overscored marks only apply to Chan :eek:
  6. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I <3 Kozuka

    This is deja vu all over again. Chan usually has a wake-up call after a substandard outing at the beginning of the season, but, this time, it was earlier than usual because of the Japan Open. So far, he's adjusted, and while a 5th place finish at the Olympics was not what he had hoped for, he's been the gold or silver medalist at Worlds since 2009, which isn't so shabby.
  7. kimkom

    kimkom Two Pot Screamer

    As is this thread. :lol:

    If we brought Patrick Chan threads from the last few seasons to the top of the forum, the posts (and posters) would be identical. :blah:
  8. ponta1

    ponta1 Active Member

    Especially one extremely over-the-top fan, who says the same thing over and over and over.

    But, back to the topic of this thread, I don't think one bad performance is indicative at all of what's to come. I'm sure Patrick will come back strong in his next competition.
  9. alilou

    alilou Crazy Stalker Lady

    Yes I agree with this, and there is also one OTT hater who says the same thing over and over again.
  10. Alex Forrest

    Alex Forrest Banned Member

    I mean, it really is. We have to accept that Patrick Chan with four or five disruptive falls is still better than the lot due to his SS, his "P/E", and the lot. Some of us just want to see a winner who skates cleanly, brings down the house, and has "champion performance" written on it. No, we get that Chan is clearly superior in EVERY other way by an insurmountable level, that he can tank a program yet still win.

    I like Patrick Chan. I wished I had his skills, he really is wonderful. But champions don't fall so much. IMHO.
  11. DaveRocks

    DaveRocks Wheeeeeeee!

    :lol: We're up to five falls now! :lol:
  12. Rock2

    Rock2 Well-Known Member

    A rule that discourages an athlete from pushing the limits and encourages them to take a conservative approach will never be implemented, so you can forget that.

    P/E is not about element execution. TES is about element execution. It's all about clarity and variety of movement, spatial awareness, involvement in the program and carriage of the body, mostly. As long as falls don't stop you from executing your non-element movements to any major degree, P/E is not impacted.
    alilou and (deleted member) like this.
  13. Proustable

    Proustable New Member

    Okay, but we are clear - Patrick tanked at this year's Japan Open. He didn't win. Right? I mean, he came sixth out of six skaters. We aren't calling that a victory, are we?
  14. Rock2

    Rock2 Well-Known Member

    Oh and PS, just watched the program. That may be one of the most effing boring programs I've ever seen from an elite male skater. No wonder his victories are driving people away from watching skating.

    (Don't think those that defend the judges on how they mark Patrick are necessarily Chan ubers.)
  15. fscric

    fscric Active Member

    I was confused by that post, too.

    So now it seems even though the myth that Patrick could win with 4 or more falls has been squashed, Patrick placing last is still not enough to please some people.
  16. overedge

    overedge Janny uber

    Maybe he shouldn't even have been allowed to enter the competition. You know, because if they let him skate, if he fell he would use his Sekret Kanadian Mind-Altering Powers on the judges and make them overmark him :rolleyes:
    KatieC and (deleted member) like this.
  17. newbatgirl

    newbatgirl Well-Known Member

    I'm going to be branded as a Chan-hater but this LP is not one of my favorite programs of his. It's a little cliched, in my opinion. Even skated with the jumps executed as planned, there's nothing in the music and choreography that seems all that inspiring or interesting.

    I'd love to see what he could do with the program Buttle skated to at the JO, which is ironic because didn't Buttle choreograph the one Chan is using?
  18. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Hates both vegemite and peanut butter

    :lol: We only brand you if you want us to.

    I just watched and tend to agree. The music is not my favourite so it kind of makes it harder to get into it. Although there are parts of it that really connect with the character of the music (step sequence). However his skating skills are really amazing. And it is a new program so it needs a lot more work to make it flow and work with the music.
  19. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Hates both vegemite and peanut butter

    Some people will never be happy until his score is in the negative.
  20. The Accordion

    The Accordion Well-Known Member

    I am really excited about this new program and I think it shows a new side of, new depth to Chan! I would imagine it will do so even more when he is more used to it/more on. To answer your question Newbatgirl - David Wilson choreographed the long. Jeff Buttle choreographed the short.
  21. falling_dance

    falling_dance Coaching Patrick

    The least we(?) Chan fans can do is admit that he should've finished seventh at the Japan Open.
  22. Rock2

    Rock2 Well-Known Member

    Oh I'm with ya. Nothing memorable about that program although I do appreciate Patrick's body control and musicality. I consider this to be premium department store music. Meh.
  23. seabm7

    seabm7 Well-Known Member

    No, as The Accordion already answered in the previous page, Buttle did "Elegy", the exhibition-turned-into-SP, for Chan. Both LP programs are choreographed by Wilson. Buttle and Wilson have been working together exclusively since 1999. So Buttle may have handled his LP program from his old choreographer with more ease, which is not the case with Chan.

    In my opinion, it's too early to give out the final verdict for Chan's LP. I'd rather wait until he could sort out the jump timing issues with the new program and extract the full potential of it.
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2012
  24. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Hates both vegemite and peanut butter

    Really? I thought he should have finished 10th.
  25. falling_dance

    falling_dance Coaching Patrick

    You're right. Wanda Beazel, the Candystand on Ice girl, and Mao's dog Aero all turned in better performances.
  26. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

    ^^ :rofl:

    Yep, but don't forget, none of them have Chan's SS. :D
  27. bardtoob

    bardtoob Former Choreographer for Anna Maria Tragikova

    Chan has too much good technique at his disposal from the ground up to be falling apart like this unless it is a training issue, which, in this case, could be a coaching issue.
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2012
  28. falling_dance

    falling_dance Coaching Patrick

    Skating Skills?

    Sekret Service?

    Sassy slappability?

    Socratic syllogisms?

    Socialist sermonizing?

    Stenographic swiftness?

    Sally Seton?

    Sylvan simplicities?
  29. alilou

    alilou Crazy Stalker Lady

    Superb syncopation falling_dance :)
  30. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Hates both vegemite and peanut butter

    Wanda Beazel's skating skills are amazing. The fact that she could stand up at all really set her apart from any other skaters.