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Patrick Chan complains about the time of World Team Trophy

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by tkaug, Apr 13, 2013.

  1. euterpe

    euterpe Well-Known Member

    Irina Slutskaya often went to the cheesefests.
  2. falling_dance

    falling_dance Coaching Patrick

    IIRC, Suguri and Sokolova also took part in the cheesefests at some point. Arakawa certainly did.
  3. kwanette

    kwanette Fetalized since 1998

    I was in Bridgeport in 03 and in Providence in 04 and there were international skaters there...Plushy and Baboo were in Providence.
  4. BigB08822

    BigB08822 Well-Known Member

    Then what was his excuse for the poor LP at Worlds? Should that competition be moved, as well?
    skateboy and (deleted member) like this.
  5. skatingfan26

    skatingfan26 Member

    I agree that it must be difficult to find the motivation for this event. But Team USA bet Team Canada at all 3 WTT! Somehow they find the motivation to step up to the occasion and give their best for the Team (i.e. SB for Wagner, Gold, Chock/Bates). The Canadians have skaters at the same level, but they've been unable to find the necessary motivation for years. Maybe it's also a hint at the Olympic Team event...
  6. rvi5

    rvi5 Active Member

    Hard to know at this time. Canada is stronger in Pairs and Mens. Ice Dance was more-or-less equal, and would be almost irrelevant since the difference would only be one point. The WTT tends to favour the Singles event, since there is double the opportunity to accumulate points compared to Pairs and Ice Dance. The US had Ashley and Gracie near the top, while Kaetlyn finished in the middle of the pack, and Daleman was near the bottom. That two ladies skater gap is what likely gave the US the lead this year.

    At the Olympics team event, there will only be "one" lady and mens skater. Although the US lady may likely open a point gap between Kaetlyn (assuming Joannie does not return), it will need to be large enough to compensate for any accumulated point gaps Canada opens in Mens and Pairs. As mentioned, Ice Dance is almost irrelevant who wins.

    ...of course, don't discount Russia and Japan.
  7. euterpe

    euterpe Well-Known Member

    Why not let Chan videotape his SP and FS and send it to all his international competitions (GP, GPF, 4CC/Olympics/Worlds/WTT) and the ISU can just mail him his gold medals? Of course, then he'd complain about the postage....
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  8. fenway2

    fenway2 Well-Known Member

    :lol:Oh if only you'd been a reporter in the zone.
  9. Sedge

    Sedge Well-Known Member

    ..not to mention there will be an Italian lady, a German pair..in the SP at least..that puts weaker entries one further point away from their competition.
    ...also in the FP...with only 5 countries remaining in the competition... a lesser entry from a top 5 country will not be worse than 5th in the Free..(eg a weak Japanese pair would be 5th in the FP...or only 3 points below 2nd place ..not 8 points below 2nd place)...that may be an even bigger difference from the current WTT structure
  10. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I <3 Kozuka

    If one or more of the best-ranked skaters refuses to participate, the ISU can exclude the team, which they haven't done to date. There is a clause that says that if a singles skater places Top 10 at WC and is one of the two highest-ranked (WS) skaters from that country, or if a team places Top 10 at WC and is the highest-ranked (WS) team from that country, the skater can't do shows, exhibitions, or competitions from the Monday after WC's through 15 April 2013 (tomorrow). The ISU also can also apply sanctions, which, as far as I know, they haven't.

    That doesn't mean that a team that is Top 10 at WC's and the second-ranked (WS) team is a valid substitute for the team that didn't participate. It just means that countries have gotten away with it -- i.e., the ISU hasn't sanctioned them, at least to date -- and the ISU might accept a teams like C/B and W/P in place of D/W and V/M. W/P and C/B's scores weren't even used to calculate team eligibility: only V/M and DW's were.

    They did. He was 3rd in Men's, and he earned 10 points for Team Canada.

    I'm not sure what K/S's health is like, but Bazarova is still recovering from something Mozer alluded to when she said she'd take the team on. B/L are the second-ranked (WS) Russian team, and if the ISU is allowing substitutes unofficially (by not playing the sanctions game) when the team is Top 10 at WC and ranked second in WS from that countries -- like B/L at last year's WTT -- they wouldn't have been able to participate for health reasons.

    They could have been summoned to do the gala, and at least Ten was, but Germany, Kazakhstan and Spain didn't qualify teams for the event, so those countries had no strategy at all.

    V/M didn't participate this year, and B/L participated last year, so no. Canada sent the top two Men, the top Pair, the second-ranked Dance team, and the Top Ladies skater plus a newbie. (Although Lacoste's GP and 4C's placements were used to quality the Canadian team, she wasn't chosen, but there isn't a front-runner now for the second Ladies' spot in Canada.) Russia gave Kovtun another opportunity, gave the second dance spot to a young team (M/K, who were lower-ranked than I/K -- not in shape -- and R/T -- and V/T went this time. The US had no obligation to send Miner; they sent top-ranked (WS) Abbott and Aaron, who placed Top 10 and highest at Worlds, along with C/B, who won dance, and Wagner and Gold, along with the National Champion Pairs team.
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2013
  11. Tak

    Tak Well-Known Member

  12. Susan M

    Susan M Well-Known Member

    You misunderstood my point. I was talking about US strategy vs Canadian and Russian. I started why wondering if USFS let D/W stay home and rest because V/M were staying home and resting. Then, I observed that some of Chan's main OGM rivals (Ten and Fernandez) were not at the Team event either, but Canada was not following the logic of resting their skater if his competitors were resting, nor did the Russians let their top pair rest even though their main OGM rivals, the German pair were resting.

    In the end, I am inclined to think it was mostly just a case of USFS not wanting to force skaters somewhere they didn't want to be.
  13. Susan M

    Susan M Well-Known Member

    There are provisos in the ISU regs now for open events with both eligible & ineligible skaters (like the Japan Open). Perhaps the host federation could apply for permission to hold the team event as an open.

    I think it kind of depends on what the ISU decides to do with the team event. It seems to me, if they want to paint it as a legitimate Olympic event, then it also ought to be part of Worlds, not a separate event held a continent away weeks later, under different rules than used at the Olympics.
  14. PDilemma

    PDilemma Well-Known Member


    And I have been watching baseball since birth basically and have NEVER seen cameras in the losing team's locker room at the World Series. But making stuff up always makes for a good argument.

    All sports are grueling and being at the top requires year round training. I don't know why it is necessary to prove that skating is somehow harder than other sports.
  15. TheIronLady

    TheIronLady Well-Known Member

    I disagree. I believe at this stage the World Team Trophy is an artificial and inconsequential event. It makes Canadians like Chan have to compete at an event that few if any of the competitors really care about. It reminds me of when the ISU had the cruel idea of making skaters perform two different free programs at the grand prix final. It is another chance for the ISU to try to market/sell another product at the skaters' expense. The skaters should complain. The ISU shouldn't create more work for skaters just because it makes the ISU potentially more money or more opportunities for them to patronize federations. Maybe the WTT will eventually be interesting, but I sympathize with any star who speaks out against the scheduling and other inconveniences it poses.

    I would have the WTT be an early season event, at least until it develops into something more important.
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2013
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  16. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I <3 Kozuka

    According to the ISU announcement, the Top-Ranked team from a country that is also in Worlds Top 10 must skate, or there can be sanctions. There seems to be an unofficial policy for Pairs and Dance teams that the ISU won't go after sanctions if another team in the Top 10 at Worlds and is sent in their place, like C/B for D/W, W/P for V/M, and B/L for V/T last year. I'd say second-ranked and Top 10 at Worlds, except that that would be the Shibutanis, and they didn't go, either; even if C/B placed one spot above them at Worlds, the Shibs were still Top 10.

    I doubt if it was USFS's strategy to rest their Top team: it seems very much Zoueva's strategy, since V/M, D/W, and S/S stayed home. If they had a strategy to rest their top skaters, they wouldn't have sent Aaron, either, since while he was Top 10 at Worlds, he's the 5th-ranked US senior Men's skater in WS, or Gracie Gold, who is the 3rd-ranked Ladies skater, and Ashley Wagner would have stayed home just like D/W, who were equally obligated to be there.
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2013
  17. arakwafan2006

    arakwafan2006 Well-Known Member

    To me, all of the skaters looked completely exhausted. I suppose there were a few who were looking to redeem themselves and end the season on a high note (Akiko) but then again, Tatiana and Max were fantastic. I can still see where Patrick was not wanting to compete this event.
    alilou and (deleted member) like this.
  18. walei

    walei Well-Known Member

    Pros trained through injury and pains to compete in competitions that for a lack of a better word, count. WTT to me is like the All Star weekend, so I would assume if a player is injured/tired they would've opt out and rest up especially if the All Star weekend takes place after the Championship Finals and your team just played through a grueling Playoffs.
  19. PDilemma

    PDilemma Well-Known Member

    I doubt if the skaters taking home that substantial prize money this weekend view it quite that way. And regardless of how you view WTT, there is no need to prove that skaters are somehow more strained by competition, length of season, or the need to train year round than any other elite athletes. They aren't. Every sport has its own unique and grueling demands and every sport is difficult to stay at the top of at the highest levels.
  20. euterpe

    euterpe Well-Known Member

    Ashley Wagner, Gracie Gold, Max Aaron and Chock/Bates all rose to the occasion. That's why the US won the event.
  21. skateboy

    skateboy Well-Known Member

    Yep. And some other skaters were great, too.
  22. walei

    walei Well-Known Member

    I'm not trying to prove that Figure Skating is tougher than any other sports. I AM saying a fluff event in comparison to prior competition even with substantial prize money is hard for some athletes to find motivations to continuously train hard for. Case in point, look at any Figure Skating Worlds one month after the Olympics.
  23. arakwafan2006

    arakwafan2006 Well-Known Member

    geez... i should have you around all the time to help summarize. you just saved my life...:rolleyes:
  24. Japanfan

    Japanfan Well-Known Member

    Does he even want a technical coach, though? It appeared to me that something was definitely off in terms of training when he skated his LP at Worlds, not only because of the mistakes, but because he was experiencing burn early on in the program.

    But in all the interviews I heard he was defensive. I don't know if that was due to embarrassment, or because he really believes Johnson is best for him.
    It can't help to be in relationship with her daughter, that could easily impede his ability to realistically appraise his coaching situation.

    I had a bad feeling when Chan broke with Krall and was so disappointed with him this season, in general. His promise was so exciting a few years ago, and now I'm wondering if he will ever fulfill it.
  25. analia

    analia Well-Known Member

    But we love Patrick for his brazenness don't we? If he had been a sweet talker, all his victories would just seem deserved, and that will be wrong...
  26. kittyjake5

    kittyjake5 Well-Known Member

    Yes they did rise to the occasion but don't forget Japan not having a pair team entry helped. Just saying.....
  27. Frau Muller

    Frau Muller #1 Dick Button Fan

    Late April/early May didn't seem to be a problem for him in 2011.
  28. allezfred

    allezfred Master/Mistress of Sneer Staff Member

    Well, so are Worlds, Europeans, Four Continents and the Grand Prix Series. So is the sport of figure skating in the big scheme of things.

    Meh, Chan (and perhaps Trankov) aside all I heard skaters say about the event was how well organised and how much fun it was. If any skater wants to really get out of doing the event, they can. Davis/White and Virtue/Moir certainly seemed to be able to do so.

    And then you would be complaining about the poor oppressed skaters not being ready. :drama:

    A significant amout of :bribe:, a week's stay in a fabulous hotel in one of the world's most exciting cities, skating in front of packed audiences and being showered with presents - won't somebody think of those downtrodden skaters? :p

    There is a significant amount of money available in figure skating in Japan right now. It would be foolish not to take advantage of that as who knows how long it will last. It's capitalism innit. I thought you were supposed to be a fan of that. ;)
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  29. Yazmeen

    Yazmeen Well-Known Member

    Totally agree with allezfred. The simple fact is a lot of the skaters had major fun with that event (pretty much the entire US and Japanese teams, for example) and really seemed happy to be there. Chan's mouthing off is BS regarding Sochi and is in reality sour grapes, and possibly a little bit of panic as he is realizing something is going seriously wonky with his jumps and he needs to fix the problem pronto.
  30. Iceman

    Iceman Well-Known Member

    Eddie Shiphad is Chan's technical coach. HIs name is shown on the screen along with Johnson's at competitions. Who he will use if he moves or has moved to Detroit, I don't know .

    If a skater is selected for the Olympic Team competition, will s(he) be able to choose not to be on the team? Since it will be held prior to the individual competitions I would suspect some would not want to be in the team event if they are going for individual medals, if for no other reason, fear of injury. And this is something no skater has experience with prior to a big event. Personally I am not all that thrilled about it, since they will be skating the same programs they will be skating in the individual events. Now if they were to skate different programs, that would interest me. Also, I wonder if how they do in the team event might prejudice the results for the individual competitions. In gymnastics is the team event before or after individual competitions?
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2013