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Patrick Chan’s new mantra: figure skaters of the world unite: DiManno

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sugar, Apr 21, 2013.

  1. iggie

    iggie Well-Known Member

    lol. it is lucrative for all involved, but if the ones putting on the show are desparately unhappy with the process, then that should be addressed.
  2. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

    Fine. I agree that Scott Moir and Patrick Chan should not have to suffer the trial of competing in April (the horror!). So, next time let's just have Team Italy go instead of Team Canada, since most of the other WTT participants do not seem averse to competing and the Italians are way more fun in the K&C anyway.

    Bring back Team Italy! :mitchell:
  3. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

    ^^ THIS!

    :rofl: Wow, it seems like Patrick has been reading too much FSU :soapbox: :drama: ...

    Wasn't April Fool's three weeks ago already!

    IMO (like someone else has already said), Patrick won't necessarily not win an OGM because of his recent comments. The Olympics is a year away and the new season is not near starting yet. So, by that time, Patrick may not be blowing the same horn. I think the ISU judges have proven that they are in love with Patrick's SS and will NOT be swayed by anyone or anything from continuing to reward Patrick (as has been proven). I will be surprised if Patrick continues making these pronouncements about the need for a skater's union and/ or make any attempt himself to organize one. He's gonna be too busy (like other skaters) training for the new season.

    His comments just seem like Patrick's usual tendency to complain because he's feeling put upon, and it's all about "Me, Me!" And, about him being so used to winning all the time, and he's unhappy about being forced to skate at WTT and not win, when he prefers to focus on the Road to Sochi and to winning OGM, as is his God-given ISU judges-given right, I suppose.

    OTOH, it is interesting to see a skater speak out, when most skaters have been so conditioned to Hear No Evil, See No Evil, Speak No Evil, but just shut-up and skate. However, Patrick is likely the anomaly in speaking out partly as a result of his having been irreparably spoiled big time by ISU judges and Canadian fed et al. His comments unfortunately seem like the golden boy, chosen one, SS God throwing a temper tantrum.

    As far as "good cause," IMO, it is the feds who need to join together to get rid of ISU and create a twenty-first century governing body made up of former coaches and former skaters in part, which would have the best interests of skaters and of figure skating foremost and exclusively in their sights.

    ITA with you BittyBug. I too found the below comment by Patrick the most interesting and revealing:

    Patrick's above sentiments spark a lot of questions, IMO. Why exactly does Patrick feel he wouldn't have won Worlds in London had he not switched his training site to Detroit? He was not even in Detroit for that long before Worlds in any case. What was going on in Colorado that was so detrimental or uncomfortable?

    Patrick could also elaborate on why making the change was such a huge risk and a leap of faith. I think his taking on Kathy Johnson was much more of a huge risk and a leap of faith than switching training sites to a location that is closer to Canada and where he is surrounded by Canadian teammates. I disagree with those who constantly criticize and pick on Kathy Johnson, but still that decision by Patrick seems like more of a risk than switching training sites.

    As far as squeaking out another gold medal, I doubt the training site switch had anything at all to do with Patrick being awarded gold in London. Clearly ISU judges' decision-making, Patrick's SS, and IJS had much more to do with it -- and Pat might also give Jeff Buttle and Kathy Johnson a smidge of credit too. ;)
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2013
  4. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I <3 Kozuka

    As far as penalties for non-participation, there are three for top-ranked skaters who opt out:

    * The skater can't perform or compete between the Monday after Worlds and after WTT.
    * The ISU can drop the team altogether. While Team Italy is a win, I'm not sure the Japanese Fed or the Japanese media would have wanted the USA and Canada to be dropped.
    * The ISU can go for sanctions against the Federation. I think the last time they made noise about this is when Kwan and Plushenko only wanted to do their home GP and were uninterested in the rest of GP.

    If there's an injury withdrawal, the skater can't perform or compete until a date TBA. (I don't remember seeing where they actually announced it, and there was at least one injury withdrawal, B/S.) That shows it was meant to be punitive, at least partially, because all injuries aren't created equal, and one date doesn't apply to everyone's recovery schedule or the severity of their injuries. I saw a performance recently where the lead male pulled a muscle, another man took his place in the next act, and he came back for the last one.

    I misunderstood one of the paragraphs and thought that only the skaters whose scores were used to determine team eligibility, but that's not a requirement. The only skaters who were required to participate or face sanctions -- and it looks like only the first bullet applied -- were:

    * For singles: One of the two top-ranked skaters from the country AND Top 10 at Worlds.
    * For teams: The top-ranked team from the country AND Top 10 at Worlds.

    The only skaters who were required to participate, barring injury withdrawal, were:

    USA: D/W, Gold, Wagner. The top-ranked US pair is Denney/Coughlin, who weren't at Worlds. Max Aaron, the only Top 10 US man at Worlds, is ranked 5th among US senior Men, 7th among all US Men.

    Canada: V/M, D/R, Chan, Reynolds, Osmond.

    France: P/B*, J/C, Joubert.

    China: P/T*, Li

    Japan: R/R, Murakami, Takahashi, Hanyu*. (Asada is the third-ranked Japanese Lady, top-ranked Suzuki was not Top 10 at Worlds.)

    Russia: V/T, B/S*, Sotnikova. (Tuktamysheva is the third-ranked Russian Lady; Leonova is first-ranked.)​

    *injured, although I'm not sure whose name was submitted officially and had a medical withdrawal.

    There is no provision that, well, W/P are second-ranked and top 10, so we can pretend they meet the criteria. Technically, the ISU couldn't have sanctioned Canada for replacing V/M with W/P than they could have if they had replaced Chan with third-ranked Rogozine.

    None of Zoueva's teams competed. While C/B placed one ahead of S/S, S/S are the second-ranked US team. They didn't go either. You can imagine the conversation: "How come I have to go, when V/M can just decide not to?" "Well, we can get away with sending W/P, who are Top 5 at Worlds and one rank out of being required to go, but, Patrick, sending Rogozine would look like a dis." I think that's where the "There's no one at my level" talk is coming from.

    Being forced to go and making money is better than being forced to go and not making money, but it's clear that his preference is not going, at least at that time, and not making money.

    The skaters get the gala after Worlds and their big blow out party. For some, WTT is a fun event with teammates before an appreciative audience in a great country, a way to blow off steam before the next season begins. For others, their heads are already out of this season and onto the next thing, whether that be SOI, preparing for next season, or hanging out on the sea. It's not keeping in shape to perform their Worlds programs weeks later.
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2013
    alilou and (deleted member) like this.
  5. screech

    screech Well-Known Member

    In a way I think his willingness to say anything makes him the right spokesperson. He will definitely bring up any cause that the skaters have, and if people don't agree, he takes the flack, no matter whose cause he's discussing.
  6. wickedwitch

    wickedwitch Well-Known Member

    I was hoping that this would be a "figure skaters of the world unite against DiManno" article.
  7. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

    The "right spokesperson," for what exactly?

    Figure Skaters United Against WTT Being Held After Worlds???

    Figure Skaters United Against Patrick Chan Having to Skate at WTT After A Disappointing Win at London Worlds???

    Figure Skaters United Against Being Exploited by the ISU??? (This type of cause might be long overdue, but it ain't gonna receive any traction with Patrick as spokesperson, IMHO). Patrick has been largely the one being generously gifted under IJS, so what exactly is his beef? Is it: "I want to skate when and where I want to skate and win all the time!"
    skateboy and (deleted member) like this.
  8. Jot the Dot Dot

    Jot the Dot Dot Headstrong Buzzard

  9. query5

    query5 New Member

    Patrick shut up. Tired at end of season sure so are your competitors.
    Should have skated in 1997/1998 season like michelle did. Started in october 1997 ended in July of 1998 with the Goodwill games. She did worlds after Olympics too. Also,a pro am.
    How about other years that did pro ams in May. Did the skaters admit being tire yes, but they also adfmited their competitors were too.
    They didnt insult the fans, media, public.
    Want to be like kurt, shut up. I dont remember kurt saying bad things about other skaters or implying better than,anyone else, thought it sure. Didnt state to public.
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2013
    skateboy and (deleted member) like this.
  10. query5

    query5 New Member

    In past years skaters skated in pro am events in May and they were less important than,the wtt event.,
    The skaters admited to being tired but didnt insult irbrun anyine down becausr all in same boat.
    The viewing public wouldnt look kindly on them. Might hurt the skater trying to sell public regardless if color of medal.

    Heard of the word Sportmanlike conduct.
  11. query5

    query5 New Member

    Wow figure skating is down.
    You wonder why
    You think. Imagine that.
  12. numbers123

    numbers123 Well-Known Member

    Skaters belong to their federations, right? don't they then compete under the rules of their federations? how would a skater's union work?

    I've heard the argument that Patrick is young and speaks without thinking and that he will learn for at least 4 years. It's past time for him to have learned and it is past time for hiring a PR team that zips his remarks by having someone always present with him.
  13. algonquin

    algonquin Well-Known Member

    I think that Chan needs to learn how to deal with print journalists. His TV interviews are better for some reason. That being said, reading this article made me really miss Randy Starkman.

    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
    PeterG and (deleted member) like this.
  14. shine

    shine Well-Known Member

    I'm really loving Chan <3 And I'm not being sarcastic :D
  15. numbers123

    numbers123 Well-Known Member

    all the more reason to have a PR person sitting right next to him. I am not sure that his TV interviews are better
  16. algonquin

    algonquin Well-Known Member

    Agree about the PR. His TV interviews are OK.

    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
  17. spikydurian

    spikydurian Well-Known Member

    TV interviews allow us to hear what was being asked and what he was answering in relation to. 'Print inteviews' is a summary of the interview. How it is summarised or presented may depend on the writer.
  18. VarBar

    VarBar Well-Known Member

    Is it the same Patrick Chan?

    Patrick Chan &#8207;@Pchiddy 15 Apr
    Thank you Tokyo for cheering Team Canada on all week long! Can't wait to come back soon. Domo Arigato!

    Agreed. The ISU should not send the better teams or better skaters to WTT but those who genuinely enjoy competing at this event. I hope they'll keep that in mind for 2015.

    Exactly what the World Skating Federation wanted to be.

    Do you happen to know why they failed?
  19. walei

    walei Well-Known Member

    I remember very soon after WSF was announced the IOC just flat out said, not a chance. The ISU and IOC are both very Euro-centric...
  20. Iceman

    Iceman Well-Known Member

    I am not a fan of Chan's skating, but I admire his taking the risks of saying this. Skaters, for too long, have been at the mercy of their feds and the ISU. Even if there are avenues for grievance, skaters seem reluctant to take them for fear of repercussions. The skaters have power; they need to use it.
  21. kosjenka

    kosjenka Pogorilaya’s fairy godmother

    I am starting to like Chan.
    They say that his skating live is the most impressive.

    I dont care anymore. Off season started very well. And it is not even Eurosong yet!
    PeterG and (deleted member) like this.
  22. umronnie

    umronnie Well-Known Member

    It's understandable that Chan falls so much. It is really difficult to stay upright when you have such a large head. He should definately get more P/E points for that!
  23. karlon

    karlon New Member

    poor Konstantin Menshov...
  24. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

    But it could have been much worse, it could have been Patrick! :p

    I think if someone wants to establish a skaters' union, which is certainly a worthwhile project, perhaps it would be best to start by not criticizing and belittling other skaters.

    Of course, I am grateful to Patrick for providing us this off-season :watch: moment.
    kwanette and (deleted member) like this.
  25. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

    Another thing that bugs is him referring to "the Russians" and "the Chinese" as "saying they were hurt" to get out of it. I was like, which Russians, which Chinese, in what disciplines? I prefer it when they use names instead of terms like the Swiss guy or the Lillehammar guy. If you're going to imply people are faking, best to at least use names. ;)
  26. danceronice

    danceronice Corgi Wrangler

    I can't really see the point of a "union" for skaters. I can't think of any other expensive niche sport in the Olympics that has one. I mean, there's no draft, there's no salaries, they can't switch 'teams' the way cyclists can, there aren't team owners to negotiate with, and frankly skaters don't necessarily have common interests--what's good timing, venue, judges, etc. for one skater/pair could be a disaster for another. What they NEED is a federation that takes feedback from the skaters in some other form than hearing complaints in the press and which responds to them in some other way than "this is how it is, enjoy your drop in PCS."
  27. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

    This. :lol:

    Wasn't there some kind of athlete's council (?) in either the USFS or ISU? I think Todd Eldredge was a part of it. Anyone remember? Sylvia, help! ;)
  28. Sylvia

    Sylvia Prepping for club comp. season!

  29. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

    I know I could count on you. :) To those in the know :sekret:, does the Committee have any teeth?
  30. zaphyre14

    zaphyre14 Well-Known Member

    I just wish skaters - and "journalists" would stop harping on what a "long, exhausting" someption season they have. The ISU/NGBs ask elite skaters like Chan to do three Grand Pris events during the fall, the GP final if they make it, then Nationals, Euros/4CC, and Worlds in the spring. That's certainly a lot more than the skaters of a few decades ago had to to when all they had was Nationals and worlds, but it's certainly not exactly grueling when put up against a lot of other high-profile sports. Plus all those "extra" competitions were put in to give the skaters opportunities to be seen by international judges, and earn money, both of which the skaters and the NGBs wanted. Even 4CCs was instituted because the non-European federations felt their skaters were being short-changed by not having that opportunity.

    So in a normal season, we're talking a max of seven competitions in seven months. Are skaters really such delicate flowers that they can't take the stresses of seven events a year? That's certainly what it sounds like to me.