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Nikolai Morozov Interview Article

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sylvia, Jun 30, 2011.

  1. overedge

    overedge Janny uber

    Wasn't the first Mrs. Morozov (his wife prior to Bourne and the mother of his daughter) a skater he had worked with too?
  2. Sparks

    Sparks Well-Known Member

    BTW, no matter the country, the culture, the people - a coach is indeed a paid employee. So is a teacher, an educator, a counselor, a doctor. Boundaries and ethics are essential in these relationships.
  3. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

    Wait, I knew about the reputation about him sleeping with his female students, but I had no idea he crossed over to his male students either (I thought the Amodio stuff was just FSUers joking around).
  4. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I <3 Kozuka

    From Morozov's point of view, when they were in the rink, the relationship might have been productive and happy. The problem sounded to me like Rippon was happy working with him when he was there, but he wasn't there enough. It actually sounds to me a lot like dating: "Why would you dump me when we had such a good time on that date three weeks ago? You know I'm away on business every month."
  5. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

    It's just gossip. But it really wouldn't surprise me. ;)
  6. Tinami Amori

    Tinami Amori Well-Known Member

    Just shows that not only he is one of the most talented and famous coaches right now, he is potent and virile as well.... :D Great Men and Women have great sexual demands... ;)

    Look at history! it goes with the territory..... Hooray for such people! Not only they are productive in their professions, they are also reproductive..:rofl:
  7. Jammers

    Jammers Well-Known Member

    I guess Morozov doesn't like the fact the we Americans tend to never bow down to anyone which i think is a good trait. It's served us well for over 200 years now.
  8. morqet

    morqet rising like a phoenix

    I think much of the rest of the world would beg to differ on that point.
  9. Sparks

    Sparks Well-Known Member

    Just because someone is potent, virile, and strive for power; ethics and princples be damned?
  10. kia_4EverOnIce

    kia_4EverOnIce Active Member

    :respec: present!

    Seriously, I think he explained himself quite well in the following part of the answer.
    I read it like that:
    He likes good connections with skater.
    He had an American (adam), told him to have patience and 3a will come. Adam left.
    (Of course, there could have been other problems like not having enough time, which seems to be a constant of his skaters, Adam feeling not so good, etc...but the fact is that Morozov point out only that episode now to explain himself)

    then he says Amodio and Ando trust him totally.
    (and I remember a rumour in 2007?2008? he had problems with Ando because he told her not to do a combo, and she wanted to do it, so he gave her a sort of "do you trust me? yes: don't do it. no: change coach" or similar)

    So perhaps he just likes to work with skaters who trust him totally, and he feels that could be difficult with some skaters, because they're more used to question his decisions or they have not enough patience for him....but he doesn't seem so categoric, I won't be surprised to see him again work with US skaters.
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2011
  11. Tinami Amori

    Tinami Amori Well-Known Member

    Other than leaving his pregnant wife for Shey-Lynn, he did not breach any ethics.....:cool: His lovers are legal adults and he did not rape anyone...:p

    The whole World laughs at American media when they attack politicians who get caught for love escapades. Stressful jobs need stress release. Creativity is inspired by a love affair.:kickass:
  12. Andrey aka Pushkin

    Andrey aka Pushkin Brezina's Nemesis

    Mmmm.. No.
    I know about several Morozov's affairs, and the ethical side of them was very questionable, definitely not "great creativity" and not even "love affair", when I come to think about it. I also have never heard about him being involved with men, and don't think it's true :p

    But to clarify - while there are differences between sportsman-coach relations in Russia and US, I don't know a single person on the Russian side of figure skating either who would find Morozov's behavior normal and acceptable (nor would consider his general attitude in the interviews as anything less than arrogant).
    Lanna and (deleted member) like this.
  13. Tinami Amori

    Tinami Amori Well-Known Member

    Andrey, with all do respect, and without name dragging, I am familiar with writings and comments of the few people &#8220;on the Russian side&#8221; who you&#8217;re referring to, and they do tend to be of certain leanings, especially towards &#8220;typical Russian issues&#8221;, and they do operate, in my opinion, on the premises of what &#8220;true progressive and intellectual must say and think&#8221; about issues in their own country. A typical stand of a self-proclaimed Russian intellectual &#8211; criticize everything that&#8217;s typically Russian and kiss ass to the West..

    I&#8217;ve been through that in the 60&#8217;s and 70&#8217;s, except the issues where slightly different. &#8230;.. and I&#8217;ve been through that with younger Israelis from USSR, who want to appear progressive and not like &#8220;there typical conservative immigrants from Russia&#8221;&#8230;.. :lol:. &#8230;. The opinions of &#8220;your Russians&#8221; are very far from opinions of an average TV viewer/skating fan from Siberia and the Russian Far East let me assure you&#8230;. :D.

    And we all know that Morozov is not an angel.... He is just not as bad as some of the comments against him.
  14. Pratfall

    Pratfall Active Member

    Well some of the skaters he's coached were not adults when they first went to him..how old was Miki ? I think she was only 17 or so...:(

    Anyway, there are ethical standards that should be adhered to whatever the the age of the student. If both are adults , but the "heart wants what it wants " there should still be at least a public code of decorum maintained. In a sport where people reach the top at an early age , these people are role models for children.

    Over the years Morozov's body language , particularly in the K&C, has been very questionable , and lends itself to rumour. In some cases , because of the relationships we know he's formed ,it's been evident that it was a sign of more than rumour.

    In recent years this has been most noticeable with Miki ,but this past season all the old signs were evident to an embarrassing degree between Morozov and Amodio. Unless you were at the rink watching them while waiting for the marks , it would probably have been only very noticeable on the livestream ( In fact, it could have been even more noticeable on livestream since it provides close-ups ). In Canada our main channel only showed a little bit of the K&C (whether it was just to save time or whether it was sort of censored )..but the livestream was much more suggestive. ( e.g. the whispering in the ear with the hand around the neck that seemed to go on and on, the leaving of the hand on the thigh for a very long time..both coach and skater IIRC)

    He could put and end to rumour any time he wanted to by behaving a little more professionally ,but he seems to like to flaunt it.

    ETA : Creativity + Sexual demands ? ..That's a tired old excuse..and Morozov's creativity is highly over-rated . Stressful jobs need stress release ? He could have a new lover every day and no-one would care as long as they're not his students.
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2011
    Sparks and (deleted member) like this.
  15. AndyWarhol

    AndyWarhol Well-Known Member

    Did he have an affair with Mrs Cohen? Or did I dream that?
  16. FarFarAway

    FarFarAway Four the Dark Side

    Indeed? Oh dear, where's the men's room, I need to wash my lips:D
    Don't mix the realities of the time you lived here with the realities of the modern Russia, please. That may sound insulting.

    It's the year 2011 at the moment actually. A little bit different than back in the 1970s, don't you think?

    I actually live in the heart of the Western Siberia, Tinami.
    pollyanna, julieann, Kasey and 9 others like this.
  17. Tinami Amori

    Tinami Amori Well-Known Member

    I hope so&#8230;. since you list &#8220;Surgut&#8221;&#8230;.. :D.

    You right, times change, but some people don&#8217;t, in any country. Some are excessively patriotic, some are excessively critical of their &#8220;own&#8221; and of the current society. To some it&#8217;s a state of mind, a niche, a behavior pattern, often based on the assumption that if one is an intellectual progressive &#8211; one must be gauche against the mainstream. For me when &#8220;being gauche&#8221; becomes a modus operandi, the messages lose their validity.

    I knew a 97-year old man, an immigrant from Russia, who towards the end of his life was living in California. As a very young man in the 1910&#8217;s he opposed the Tzar and joined the Revolution, in the early 50&#8217;s he opposed Stalin and the Revolution, in the mid-60&#8217;s he opposed Brezhnev during Easement, in the late 80&#8217;s he opposed Gorbachev, in the early 90&#8217;s he opposed Yeltsin, and when he finally joined his daughter in USA, he criticized, non-stop, first Clinton and then Bush, every Republican and every Democrat&#8230;. And suddenly started remembering the &#8220;good old day during Tzar when men and women were &#8220;had manners and behaved like ladies and gentlemen&#8221;, the good old days during Stalin when there was discipline at work, the good old days during Brezhnev when theatre and art in Russia was flourishing, the good old days of Gorbachev who made the Wall come down, the good old days when Yeltsin allowed the Real and Pure Capitalism to come to Russia&#8230;.

    For the record, I&#8217;ve been working in Russia/with Russia since 1991. My company works with 5-6 Russian companies, each employing over 1000 people, most of who I&#8217;ve met over the last 20 years; many are skating fans and know that I am also a skating fan.

    When skating controversies take place with Russian skaters in major competitions, Pluschenko&#8217;s recent Olympic Silver, Domnina/Shabalins &#8220;Aborigines&#8221;, etc., I get many emails and even phone calls, in which Russians are asking me to explain why the &#8220;West&#8221; stirred up yet another controversy or attack on Russian skaters.

    When Miki Ando won the last Worlds, the same people interested in figure skating were very happy &#8220;because Ando&#8217;s coach is Russian &#8211; Morozov &#8211; so it&#8217;s ½ victory for Russia&#8221;.

    At the same time there are 20-30 same people on FSonline, and a couple of journalists, who take pleasure in arguing the &#8220;western side&#8221;, but I doubt they off-set an average Russian fan&#8217;s opinion if you stop and ask in the centre of Moscow or Vladivostok. One of such journalists, to some extent, I equate to the US sports journalist &#8211; Phil Hersh.

    On the original note, I find such harsh and constant critique of Morozov&#8217;s persona very humorous, especially from the Russians, because:

    There lived a certain man in Russia long ago he was big and strong and his eyes had flaming glow&#8230;. No, not Rasputin&#8230;.. :D.

    There once was a man, a talented man, admired and praised for his talents by his contemporaries, and later generations until today. His name is mentioned with reverence, many people dream of even close association with his talents, many monuments are built in his name, many streets, piazzas, and parks in Russia are named after him, and his works are considered masterpieces of all centuries, and that&#8217;s what is usually written in his basic biographies&#8230;.

    Very little is mentioned today, except in lesser known academic writings, what kind of men he was.

    A womanizer, who seduced the wives of his best friends, until he finally married. A gambler and a drinker, who ran up high debts and impoverished his family. He lived above his means, and often defaulted on private loans. He was a gossiper, and hearsay spreader, an intriguer, who caused dissolutions of several engagements of young couples in his circle. He was arrogant, condescending, insulting to his peers.

    He was a hypocrite, who publicly rejected serfdom, yet who not only kept his own serfs but gambled them away and pond them for debts.

    He was a great poet and writer&#8230;.. the Father of Russian Literature&#8230; the name people pronounce with reverence and admiration&#8230;.. Alexander Sergeevich Pushkin. ........ And his self-admitted autobiography &#8220;in-fiction&#8221; was Eugene Onegin.
  18. Proustable

    Proustable New Member

    Tinami, I think part of it is that Morosov is not on the level of Pushkin. He's not on the level of Moskvina or Tarasova. He's not a great choreographer. Hell, in the article posted, he mentions that he practically dashes of choreography for Miki Ando in a couple days and doesn't try anything new for her. He's not this titanic figure of creativity you depict. I think his last great program was for Takahashi, and Takahashi is a singular genius anyway.

    Frankly, the affairs etc don't bother me, partially because I'm completely sure I know very little about the actual facts of the situation, and partly because (sue me) I think the affection I've seen demonstrated from Morosov to Amodio is cute and more paternal than anything (I'm thinking particularly his reaction to winning Euros before Amodio leaps into Joubert's arms)
  19. shine

    shine Well-Known Member

    You know a lot of things would probably be forgiven and overlooked if he is actually some kind of artistic inspiration, and your point about love affairs leading to creativity would then be valid. But as it is, his so called choreographed is pretty much shite, thus he gets bashed for what he is. Seems fair to me :D
    VALuvsMKwan and (deleted member) like this.
  20. Tinami Amori

    Tinami Amori Well-Known Member

    Now we&#8217;re talking&#8230;.. that&#8217;s another issue, and is a subject to a good discussion.

    For many years now he is in high demand, had and has many top skaters asking to work with him and his students do medal at major competitions and do win Gold.

    What I am objecting to is anglo-saxon (so not to say &#8220;American&#8221;) priggishness. :D, about sex, about personal forms of expression..

    I don&#8217;t know how many more times we&#8217;re going to have an argument &#8220;why Russian celebrities brag and display self-confidence more than it is acceptable in Ango-Saxon cultures&#8221;, especially when Morozov or Pluschenko give interviews.

    When will westerners accept that Morozov, Pluschenko, Slutskaya and many others will not come out on stage and say &#8220;I am just a boy/girl from a trailer park&#8221;&#8230;&#8230; or step on a stage with a mousy smile and cry &#8220;Oh, you love me, you really do love me&#8221;&#8230;&#8230;.. :D
  21. julieann

    julieann Well-Known Member

    Your posts about 'westerners' (and most everything else) really do make me :rofl:

    I would love to know who in the west said those quotes (if anyone)....:shuffle:
  22. Southpaw

    Southpaw Saint Smugpawski

    I don't know about the trailer park quote, but the "you love me, you really love me" was said by Sally Field a billion years ago when she won an Oscar.
  23. julieann

    julieann Well-Known Member

    I had a feeling that is the quote Tinami Amori was refering to but in actuality Sally Field said this:

    "I can't deny the fact that you like me, right now, you like me!"
  24. Proustable

    Proustable New Member

    I believe the trailer park quote was from Hilary Swank when she accepted her first (or second) oscar.
  25. FarFarAway

    FarFarAway Four the Dark Side

    Tinami, I'll cut the long story short, if you don't mind, since, when the people tend to have such lengthy discussions I usually lose track of thought. I'm not very much clear on what you tried to convey to me actually, but nevertheless.

    I'm Russian, yes, and I love my country. Despite all the drawbacks I love living here. That doesn't mean that I am overpatriotic or that I tend to rush kissing the ass to the West, as you put it.

    I just take the best from the west:D and take the best that I can find here, this seems to be the right choice for me and I think that this is the best choice a man can make not only for himself but for the future development of his country.

    But enough of the philosophy. I didn't quite catch your idea on comparison between Morozov and Pushkin. That stunned me in fact.

    Being also a member of the FSonline community (and a very active one) I dare say that you are prejudiced against it actually. You should be reading it more thoroughly.

    And, to sum up, I actually pity the people who called and emailed you about Plushenko and Domnina/Shabalin. If they don't see what was the problem with their costumes/medals - I have nothing to say.
    alilou and (deleted member) like this.
  26. FarFarAway

    FarFarAway Four the Dark Side

    Do you really believe that Plushenko's interviews are okay and normal?
  27. senorita

    senorita New Member

  28. hanca

    hanca Well-Known Member

    Actually, I do! :saint: :lol: They are brilliant!!! :cheer: :cheer2:
  29. FarFarAway

    FarFarAway Four the Dark Side

    Well, tastes differ, sure
    But some of his words are really controversial actually:D
  30. Jammers

    Jammers Well-Known Member

    Russia has celebrities? :confused: