1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Hi all! No longer will threads be closed after 1000 (ish) messages. We may close if one gets so long to cause an issue and if you would like a thread closed to start a new one after a 1000 posts then just use the "Report Post" function. Enjoy!

New Kulik/Gordeeva skating center

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Kasey, Sep 5, 2012.

  1. aliceanne

    aliceanne Well-Known Member

    According to a recent interview with Katia in IFS Daria (now 20) is back at home and has a job. Daria does not want a sports related career.

    She may change her mind later but I can see how at 20 she might want to distance herself from skating. Those are some pretty big shadows to be in when your morher, father, and stepfather were all Olympic gold medalists.
  2. lulu

    lulu New Member

    There was an interview with Daria a few years ago, where she spoke about the pressure of high expectations, not from Katia or Ilia, but from people in general, to achieve the same degree of success that her parents did in figure skating.
  3. aliceanne

    aliceanne Well-Known Member

    In the IFS interview they said they chose rhat size because it was just big enough to train triple jumps. A larger ice surface would be more costly to maintain and that would mean that they would have to rent to hockey and have public sessions to pay the bills.
  4. rfisher

    rfisher Will you rise like a phoenix or be a burnt chicken

    Excellent combination! We will have to keep our eyes on the skaters coming out of this school (as it were). If they get a skater with talent, they've got the skills to teach and we may have some future skating stars.
  5. Artifice

    Artifice Guest

    The explaination of why they choose a smaller rink is interesting and the reason is clear. However I wonder weither it's that a big deal to rent the rink to public sessions in order to make more incomings. Having a standard size rink is so important for skaters who practice for competitions. Practicing on a smaller rink all year may be disturbing when going to competition and having to skate on a different surface.
    To the owners of the rink it was more important to have the ice full time for FS practice than to share a bigger rink with public sessions and hockey. But I know a lot of rinks that work well with high level FS training sessions and public sessions + hockey sessions.
    A day can start at 6 or 7 am and end at 22pm, that makes 15 hours for various sessions. Within these hours that should be possible to leave the ice for a few hours to hockey and public sessions without disturbing FS training.
    For a high level competitor the size of the rink is a concern and it is possible that such a skater doesn't chose a smaller rink, therefore limiting the potential of the rink to attract "big" names.

    However I hope for the Kulik's rink that their choice will work, their expertise combined with Gordeeva is probably the best in the world.
  6. Sylvia

    Sylvia Prepping for club comp. season!

    It's my understanding that it's common for many of the high level competitors in southern California to skate/train at more than one rink.

    Liza Kulik demonstrates very good basics from what I've seen so far. :)
  7. Willowway

    Willowway Well-Known Member

    Ilia also coaches a very talented young skater from the Philippines, Michael Christian Martinez. Ilia mentioned to a Krew member after the recent show in Phoenix that he was thrilled for Michael's recent accomplishment - a gold medal at Crystal Ice (Senior B comp in Romania) earlier in November. This was Michael's very first senior international comp and his results have qualified him for Worlds. To add to the story, he performed a clean 3A/3A (yes, I really meant that!) combo in his free program (so much for the questions about training big programs at Kulik's Skating) and won the very first gold in international figure skating for his country. What a evening for him!!

    Unfortunately economics at this moment do not support Ilia traveling with Michael but hopefully things will improve - they have been together as coach and student for about 2.5 years (maybe a little longer) so far. Ilia can't say enough about what a talented, hard-working, nice young man Michael is.
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2012
  8. lulu

    lulu New Member


    That's great news, I'm super impressed by the 3A/3A combo. Congratulations to Michael and to his coach! :)
  9. Sylvia

    Sylvia Prepping for club comp. season!

    Willowway, the article on Michael Christian Martinez that you posted in the Crystal Skate thread in Kiss and Cry mentioned that "He is but two points shy of earning a berth in the World Championship to be held sometime in March 2013." I wish him well at Philippine Nationals this week! :)
  10. lulu

    lulu New Member

    I was thinking the exact same thing when I read the article. To have Katia teach stroking/edge quality and Ilia teaching jumping technique sounds like a dream coaching team (hmm, maybe Stephane Lambiel can stop by once in a while to teach a spinning class? ;)).
  11. Macassar88

    Macassar88 Well-Known Member

    Or Lucinda Ruh!
  12. antmanb

    antmanb Well-Known Member

    Not that it isn't a very impressive feat, but I question the wisdom of doing a 3A/3A that could only ever be marked as a sequence and therefore only receive 80% of the base value of two triple axels. If you have the skill to land not one but two 3As then i'd be wanting to get the full base value for each rather than give up 20% of the points for what would be your highest scoring element.
  13. Willowway

    Willowway Well-Known Member

    I don't question the wisdom of it and I'll tell you why.

    You are absolutely correct about the potential of the sequence as opposed to a combo. And I know that Ilia has been studying CoP and debating the fine points with fellow skaters - he has talked to the Krew about it and once, really sat for a long while explaining CoP to us when it was relatively new. He along with Petrenko, Hamilton, etc. even made a formal suggestion for a revision to CoP two seasons ago that was voted on and accepted by the ISU. So I don't think that we're talking about CoP ignorance here.

    If Michael came in second, well then let the arm-chair quarterbacking begin. But the kid won his very first senior international event with that sequence in his program. Hard to argue with that result. If that sequence gave him confidence at this point to skate a great program, so be it. If he's moving toward another combo and this sequence is an intermediate step, so be it. If he ad libbed and threw it in, so be it.

    I agree with you that any particular program, its elements and score potential is a product for which the value needs to be maximized. I'm a marketing strategy exec. in my non-skating life so I really get your point there. That said, moving toward Olympic level performance in any discipline is a process. And all these "products" (the programs and elements) need to fit into a process that moves the skater forward over time. So I am assuming (but confident) that this is part of Michael's process - and it's working.

    Michael has been coming along very well and very quickly. When he is ready to achieve the additional points you cite, I have no doubt he will, or at least give it a great try.
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2012
  14. Coco

    Coco Well-Known Member

    I would be surprised if he keeps this 3a+3a+seq for several seasons because of the 20% deduction, but an original skill or combo like this is a great way for an up and coming skater to stand out and be remembered. I think it makes sense for now. And it really bodes well for his ability to - in the future - do a 3a with a difficult entrance. It's always great to be the first to do something! Who knows, maybe we'll see 3a-1l-3flip from him soon.
  15. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I <3 Kozuka

    He's 2.76 points shy of the SP minimum -- his highest this season was 32.24 at Crystal Skate -- but he made the Worlds TES minimum at that competition with FS TES of 67.07.

    Do you mean at Crystal Skate? The official protocols list his FS elements as:

    1 MICHAEL CRISTIAN MARTINEZ PHI 7 125.75 67.07 58.68 0.00

    1 3A
    2 3A+2T
    3 3Lz
    4 FSSp4
    5 StSq3
    6 2A
    7 FCCoSp4 3.50 0.50
    8 3Lo+2T+2T
    9 3T+2T
    10 3S
    11 3Lo
    12 ChSq1
    13 CCoSp3 ​

    According to this protocol, he's repeating the 3A and 3Lo in two separate jump boxes.

    I looked it up to try to do the math to see what jump he added in lieu of the open box for moving both 3A's into the same box. A 3A+3A sequence is worth 13.60 or 14.96 after the halfway point, which is even more of a joke when you think about the difficulty. His 3A and 3A/2T sequences at the beginning of the program are worth 18.3, or a difference of 4.7. (He can't do 3A/3T without giving up the second 3Lo, which would lose him 2.3 net in base.)

    The only triple he's missing is the flip, which would get him 5.3 or 5.83 in the second half of the program, or .6-1.13 more than he loses with the sequence penalty.

    I can see 3A+3A sequence as an attention-getter to put him on the map, but it's a lot of risk for a relatively small potential gain.

    The Zayak rule needs to be overhauled for jumps after the first in combination, and the sequence rule could be changed to de-value the second jump only, since relative to a combo, the second jump in a sequence should be less difficult (in theory and in general) than the second jump in a combo.
  16. skatemommy

    skatemommy Well-Known Member

    ^^Kwanfan, you need to be our FSU COP commentator! You are miles better than the current crop on US TV! Well done :)
  17. Willowway

    Willowway Well-Known Member

    Thanks for the info. I repeated what I had read and believed. Going forward I think it's safer for me to leave these discussions to other people.
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2012
  18. victoriajh

    victoriajh trying to ignore rod and find the eurosport feed

    back to the rink and skating center- i emailed and am in process of setting up a lesson with Katia!!! i think will see about having her do some updates to an old program and some basics_ because A) thats all i can do!! and B) she has such great basics..... cant wait!!!!
  19. lulu

    lulu New Member

    That sounds like the opportunity of a lifetime, how wonderful for you to get a chance to train with one of the all time best. Best of luck to you with your classes. BTW, lurve your location. :cheer:
  20. misskarne

    misskarne #AustraliaForTheTeamEvent

    Oh, lucky, lucky you! Good luck and have fun and I hope you don't turn into a wibbling mess!
  21. sap5

    sap5 Well-Known Member

    Learning basics from Katia would be a dream come true! Lucky you!
  22. ioana

    ioana Well-Known Member

    I want a warm-up jacket with that written on it. In sparkles. Just so everyone is clear on what to expect

    victoriajh -Have fun with your lesson & let us know how the rink works out with several skaters on the ice and the smaller size. I'm assuming they allow fewer people on the ice for FS than Olympic-sized rinks?
  23. Susan M

    Susan M Well-Known Member

    I've never really liked the sequence penalty. Yes, the intervening step usually makes the following jump easier than in a combination, but it is still harder than that jump when done as a solo jump.
  24. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

    Let us know how it went please. :)

    But it enables you to squeeze two jumps into one pass, giving you more points.
  25. Lanie

    Lanie Well-Known Member

    Tell us how it went, victoriajh! We are dying to know!

    I am so sad I don't live in Irvine anymore, because I would so, so, so love to skate there! I was so annoyed by having to drive to Anaheim or Aliso Viejo. :drama:
  26. skateboy

    skateboy Well-Known Member

    So cool. And congratulations!