Discussion in 'Moves In The Field' started by Aussie Willy, Mar 10, 2012.
Another unacceptable comment. Please do not denegrate our skaters.
Im not denigrating skaters. just stating my opinion just like ozsk8mum was when she said that australian skaters dont know how to use their edges properly
I cant wait to start learning my primary pattern test!
Hahahah that was the most perfect segue I have ever seen ...
Have you had a look at any of the patterns yet? what did you think?
The hardest pattern in primary is the bracket pattern. I must say that i have seen many skaters, including my own struggling with the brackets. But they seem to be pretty good on the other 3 patterns
I have the same argument when you say that Australian skaters dont know how to use their edges properly. Our coaches and skaters work hard on edges and are improving just like the pairs. They dont need a mother to tell them that they are not the best at edges and that our components scores are letting us down O/S
What was your goal. You were doing the same thing
There is a difference about commenting on the general standard of skating Australia and picking out particular skaters to make disparaging comments about.
As pointed out by numerous other people on this board you took my comments as a direct slur on your students, which it wasn't, you were not even a member of this board way back when my comments were made. That the Pattern tests are a step in the right direction, you chose to take it personally, whatever, if the number of people that replied to you telling you you took the comment in the wrong way, well who am I to try and convince you.... JUST a mother.
I still stand by my comments as a "mother" and a fan of Australian Skating ... our elite skaters need to work on edges and skating skills to get their PC score up.
The difference between every comment I made and every comment you have made is your comments are directed specifically at individuals and aimed to be nasty and bring individual skaters down, You constantly bring up the pairs, your issue clearly.
Your opinion is of little value because I expect a coach to have respect & integrity and not to be bagging out individuals (KIDS) in an open forum you continue to be proven wrong in your comments and you lost me when you spoke about an Australian Skater who was "woeful". This is a small country and we all know each other, You have managed not only to alienate other Aussies but people around the world, for what??
Good Luck with your Primary Pattern test Andywarhol !!
Im sure its not just me, but i would think that if any high level australian skater read your comment they wouldnt be very happy either. No high level skater wants to here some mother say that their edges arent good enough.
And i believe that there were others that agreed with me when i said that a particular skater was woeful at the patterns. And it was true, i was at the pattern camp, you weren't. I wasnt being nasty, i was just stating my opinion that i thought he wasnt good at patterns.
And in terms of value of opinions, your comments are far less valued as you r a mother. Not a skater, not a coach, not a judge, your just a mother that is a fan of skating because there children skate. You may watch a lot of skating on youtube and read a lot of stuff about skating, but in the end, you dont know what it takes to be a good skater, because you are not one.
Almost no coaches in Australia have the skills to teach skaters to basics they need to be top international skaters- this is clearly demonstrated by the fact that skaters have to train overseas to improve. Like it or lump it!
Australian coaches can turn out good social skaters who can hold their own at home but the scores at Hollin's a few weeks ago were nowhere near marks above the cellar dwellers at internationals.
After all the skaters can only skate with the skills they are given by the coaches.
I hope your not a mother
I agree and disagree... I will say that we have a vast variety of coaches here in Aus. Although yes there are many coaches who dont know what it takes, i do believe that we do have some very talented coaches in Australia that do know what it takes. Yeah, our coaches arent as good as say the US, but the US is one of the top countrys in the world for almost every sport.
Im sure previous top skaters for example Miriam Manzano, who now coaches, knows what it takes to be a top skater. It is my belief that we do not have the facilities or the money or the proper atmosphere to produce top skaters in australia. That is why we send people overseas.
I think you are wrong... and likely to offend people with that talk..
However, in order to debate against it I would probably offend you as well...
So all i'm going to say is that most skaters go overseas to train in a better atmosphere, not because the coaching is so exponentially better...
and I will leave it at that...
You cannot say we haven't produced top skaters, Miriam, Joanne, Stephen and Danielle, Cameron Medhurst the list is actually quite long if you take the time to go through it.
and yes many went overseas at some point in their career, but they all achieved some level of success at home with Aus coaches...
We are able to produce top skaters, but we do not have the same level of funding, rinks, ice time, support or participants that countries like the US does, so obviously, we will not produce the same quantity...
Does not mean that our quality is any less....
The skaters quoted are all from last century! Their coaches coached them last century! The named skaters have gone on to coach but the proof of their prowess is yet to emerge.
I guess if you look at the score Cheltzie got in Hollins after a year of training only in Australia compared to results when she was training in US could perhaps demonstrate the point.
Throwing money into the sport in Australia will not bring the results, the skaters need to skills of coaches overseas- yes the atmosphere helps but the bottom line is the coaches.
You have to be kidding if you think the quality of Australian based coaches can hold a candle to what they get overseas.
Reality is we will never have the financial support top skaters get- top skaters in US and Canada do not need to fit work around training.
If parents really want to get behind their Australian Skater's dream consider taking out a second mortgage and have them apply for a US visa which allows them to work and get them to where coaches are true professionals.
I think it is sad that there are Australians here attacking each other! I understand what sk8ing coach is saying in that some of Australia's highest level singles skaters have good edge work..... is it good enough... sadly that is subjective under the current IJS system where components are marked by judges who all have preferred skating techniques.
I do not think it is fair to make comments about the Aus Pairs team JGP results, I don't think for one minute they thought they would score or place highly, but they went out with happy hearts and a desire to be the best they can and truly at this stage in Australian pairs skating (which is just developing) I say well done and be proud of your efforts, I would also say that to every skater that represented Australia last season Internationally as not one of them had medal winning skates and I do not say that to be demeaning or disrespectful or offensive! I take may hat off to each and everyone of them and say we are proud of you all, hold your heads up high and enjoy your moment, they may not win BUT they all, each and everyone of them gave their all!
Skating parents may not have all the technical skills to make technical comments, but their opinions are only that, opinions, skating coaches have more technical skill but yet again there are so many different techiniques that even coaches have a preferred style. Anyway I do see all sides of this, but think there is no reason to make it personal, I have to say I have no idea who anyone is on this forum and for that I am thankful
I can not bring myself to agree with that, I have worked with many many internationally renowned coaches from the US as both a skater and a coach, and knowing many coaches in Australia, I can think of at least 8 or so who still measure up....
I have always believed that the main reason to send a skater overseas is to expose them to the next level of skating, after that it's all on them. No coach can get you a 3A, only the skater can... But to go overseas and see many many skaters trying and landing that jump shows you what is possible and can inspire you to achieve it... Sports are 90% mental....
I won't say names on here due to the recent upsets, but I think I know who you are and the skaters you are behind, and I must say I applaud you for the support you have given to your skater. Not just financially either.
However I think you are mistaking the nature of the advantage you have given your skater by enabling them to train overseas....
I do think Australia has a few really good technical coaches, as many above have already stated there is more to creating a top skater than the skater and coach alone, the environment is absolutely imperative for any skater to be competitive, such as Dani and Greg who have made huge improvements over the last few months whilst training full time in US with top skaters and coaches with great ice time, I make this comment whilst recognising that if they had no potential the senior US coaches would not take them, so therefore their Oz coach was definitely getting the basics right to begin with.
I also agree with the comment from Jumpin Bean about the lovely Cheltzie Lee, she has a great coach in Aus, but she needs lots more ice time and a competitive environment to improve her results. We all know what Aussie kids/families/coaches face in trying to create the best skating we can and yet again, I think we should be proud of most of the skaters we send to International events, I think most of the kids would give anything to have what the US skaters have, but its not possible here, so they do the best they can, with what they have.
Don't ever assume anything in the world of forums- I came into the life of a young skater at one of the lowest points of their lives and have watched that person regroup, my support has never been financial but that person now steers clear of skaters with glandular fever.
Not a fun thing to have :S
Yes, you said it many, many, many times. We got it. Give it a rest already.
I said you're not allowed to reveal other members' real names. I didn't say anything about you being allowed to say anything. Actually getting personal with another poster is one of the best ways to be asked to take it to PM or elsewhere.
You do have a personal issue with another poster and a mother of a skater. You don't argue with her points, you dismiss everything she says based on the fact who she is. That makes it a personal issue and you a crappy debater.
As for who is whom, it doesn't really matter on a message board. What proof do we have you're really a coach of high level skaters? None whatsoever. Everyone can make an account and say they are a coach. Or a tech spec. Or both at once. Imagine that.
If you really can't wrap your mind around it that people who are not "qualified" enough will discuss, criticize and offer opinions about skating, consider where you are. Look at the number of registered members and think what percentage of that might be high level skaters and their coaches. Because even if you wanted, you wouldn't have enough time in a day to be offended by everyone who talks about skating here and is JUST a florist, a lawyer, a convenience store clerk, a manicurist, a college professor, a data analyst, a nanny, a weatherman, a musician, a teacher, an HR manager, an office clerk, a customer service rep, a computer programmer, an engineer, a nurse, a doctor, a writer, a waitress, a flight attendant, an optician, a tailor, a secretary, a janitor, an accountant, a cashier, a bank teller, a realtor, a travel agent, a dog sitter (and I could go on and on)... and a mother, father, brother, sister, etc.
In the end it doesn't matter who you are if you have something valuable to say. And if you don't, who you are doesn't make a difference.
you did go on and on...
Thank you for noticing. That was part of my point.
OMG are we really still talking about this..
Like i have said many times, im just stating my opinion, and if my opinion is saying that i dont value a mothers opinion about skating then im allowed to say that...
No shit sherlock, it's all you've posted ad nauseam.
As long as you have a problem understanding something I'll do my best to help you understand.
BTW, you guys are so comfortable with each other. It's like two minds in one head. Or a hydra. Multiple heads but always everywhere at the same time. How many heads are there? I can imagine it would make coaching those high level skaters quite difficult. Imagine if they all talk at once, or do you always wait your turn?
I highly recommend staying out of the Kiss and Cry forums during the regular season. It is FILLED with people who are "just a fan" (surely less knowledgeable than mothers...I a mean, they aren't even sitting around the rink for hours watching skaters learn) being very critical of skaters.
Yeah but they aren't criticising High level Australian skaters, some of whom I teach
If those skaters are at international competitions, they likely are.