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"Nagasu targets clean triple axel for Olympic season"

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by AngieNikodinovLove, Mar 9, 2017.

  1. AngieNikodinovLove

    AngieNikodinovLove Well-Known Member

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    7 triples in free. No falls?

    These would be respectable scores for Worlds. Almost 206 total. Hopefully no inflation.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2017
  2. bardtoob

    bardtoob Former Choreographer for Anna Maria Tragikova

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    Mirai's PCS in the SP would have had to have averaged 8.0 in order to get a 32 total.
    Mirai's PCS in the FS would have had to have averaged 8.25 in order to get a 66 total.

    I think that is fair and have said as much for awhile in competition threads, but it is inflated relative to what she has been actually getting. IIRC she has been getting about 7.75 on average in PCS.

    I find it encouraging that the failed 3A attempt in the FS did not cause the rest of her jumps to fall apart.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2017
  3. Spun Silver

    Spun Silver Well-Known Member

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    Her first try. Be patient. I am heartened that the effort didnt seem to take anything away from the rest of her program. I hope some vid will turn up so we can see how it unfolded.
     
  4. leigh466

    leigh466 Well-Known Member

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    Me too. First attempt on lutz in short and she got full credit but missed back half of combo. Got combo clean in the free, and then went on to cleanly complete the rest of the jumps after the 3A fail. When considered as a whole, not bad at all, despite the <<.

    Also, she got 62.23 in FS PCS at 4CC, so averaging less than 8. It was lower in the SP
    30.48 (7.75 7.32 7.68 7.64 7.7).
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2017
  5. Frida80

    Frida80 Active Member

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    Have patience. With new jumps it's expected to have downgrades, underrotations, falls, step outs, and turn outs at first. I've watched so many juveniles, intermediates, novices, and juniors struggles with new jumps. They get them fine in practice, but in a program things fall apart at first. At first they look so awkward. Then it finally clicks over time. It's not like she needs to land them clean tomorrow. She should continue to train her 3A in club competitions until she gets more comfortable doing it in a program.
     
  6. giselle23

    giselle23 Well-Known Member

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    It's ironic that it took a club competition for Mirai to finally get fair PCS.
     
  7. Spun Silver

    Spun Silver Well-Known Member

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    It may be a 3Lutz bonus, the 4CCs effect, and the 3As in practice. In other words, she earned them and maybe the judges are starting to recognize that!
     
  8. Frida80

    Frida80 Active Member

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    Also she did this with Tom not there. A lot of skaters skate worse when their coach isn't there helping them remember their technique. Next time he'll be there and may the result will be better.
     
  9. rosewood

    rosewood Well-Known Member

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  10. Frida80

    Frida80 Active Member

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    Just wait. It's going to get a bigger over the summer as she works on her programs.

    If she can keep her head in the game she should have a fantastic fall season.
     
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  11. mag

    mag Well-Known Member

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    I have lots of patience and have spent many hours watching both practices and competitions. I completely agree it takes time. My point was that marked 3A<< is the worst they can put on the report card (I don't know whether she stood up or fell,) other than a pop. That doesn't necessarily make it bad, as others have pointed out, it didn't disrupt the rest of the program. The lack of disruption is good. The 3A<< is neutral at best and I would argue negative if she stood up. I know that sounds weird, but standing up on a jump with over 1/2 a revolution short is both dangerous and probably an indication that she doesn't have the rotation in practice.

    That is my concern with Mirai. She has fast ankles and is remarkable in her ability to land cheated jumps. That would have worked really well for her under 6.0, but with slow motion replay, we know where that lands hers. I just really want her to get the rotation consistent. Go out in competition and don't even think about landing it. Just go for full rotation every time. The landing will come and it will be clean.
     
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  12. leigh466

    leigh466 Well-Known Member

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    Can't argue with that!
     
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  13. Sasha'sSpins

    Sasha'sSpins Well-Known Member

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    Give her a a little time and some slack. It's her first try this year with the 3A in competition. I prefer to look at the positive - she WENT for it. I love it. I hope she keeps going for it at these low key competitions leading into the summer and hopefully by the fall the 3A (and the 3L in the SP) will seem like old hat to her.

    eta: I hope some kind soul recorded her programs at the Denver Invitational and will share! :D
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2017
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  14. Frida80

    Frida80 Active Member

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  15. icellist

    icellist Active Member

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    If Mirai is confident enough to put her lutz in the SP, it should also be in her LP. On top of that, why do 2 3Lo if she can repeat the flip?
     
  16. Frida80

    Frida80 Active Member

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    She replaced the 3Lz with the 3A. It's probably temporary. Her layout at nationals replaced the other 2A with a 3Lz. I think that's way to hard to do on tired legs. I'd swap things around and end with a 3S if she insist on doing and 8 triple program....

    My mind would be blown if she actually tried that. But my pragmatic mind prefers she stay with a pragmatic 7 triple program instead.
     
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  17. Sasha'sSpins

    Sasha'sSpins Well-Known Member

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    It's early yet. I'm sure they just wanted to test out the 3A. Removing the 3L in the FS was likely part of the strategy for now and surely they'll put it back in once (and hopefully if) Mirai gets really consistent with the 3A. Shoot, I almost wish she'd go for a 3A in the SP!
     
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  18. Allskate

    Allskate Well-Known Member

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    Maybe if she created an entirely new long program she would be able to create a layout that would work best for her. ;)
     
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  19. Spun Silver

    Spun Silver Well-Known Member

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    She also sounds like she thinks she just might be going to Worlds....
     
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  20. worldsnice12

    worldsnice12 Well-Known Member

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    I think she is more "hungry" than ever to start next season. Surely, missing a spot on the World team was a bummer but she seems very focused on what's coming next. I believe it is tough mentally to really go for that 3A and it is good to see that she is up for it. I am mostly impressed that she kept landing her remaining jumps cleanly, that start's to show some real fighting spirit.
     
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  21. euterpe

    euterpe Well-Known Member

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    Detroit International wasn't Mirai's first attempt to land 3A at a competition. The year she won the US collegiate championship, she tried 3a in the SP and it was <<.
     
  22. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    As a good alternate should.

    But I read more that Mirai has a habit of getting out of shape in the off season and needing to work really hard to get it back.
     
  23. Frida80

    Frida80 Active Member

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    She wasn't landing it clean then. She was landing it <. Tom wanted her to get use to her landed it at least <. But this cost her a CS medal, so she convinced Tom to remove the 3A so she could finish her season strong.
     
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  24. Areski

    Areski Well-Known Member

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    We've seen video with Mirai landing clean & rotated 3A already so she has it in her, but it's going to take time till she nails in competition. I appreciate that she goes for it already as she needs it she wants to incorporate it as her weapon next season and I am uplifted that disappointing attempt did not negate the rest of the program.


    I've read somewhere that Mirai's URs come from pointing her toes? How much truth is in that? I found that assumption weird.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2017
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  25. SkateFanBerlin

    SkateFanBerlin Well-Known Member

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    Ha-ha. Fast ankles - that's a new one. Like fast hands picking your pocket, I guess.
     
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  26. Coco

    Coco Well-Known Member

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    Honestly, it makes the most sense to go for the 3a in the SP, in bonus time if possible, and not the FS.

    If she misses in the SP, she misses, and she can probably keep it together for the rest of the program to earn decent scores on those elements.

    If she misses in the FS, she still has 5 more jumping passes to go through, plus everything else. I think that's too much, especially if she has a hard fall.
     
  27. bardtoob

    bardtoob Former Choreographer for Anna Maria Tragikova

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    I see your point, but, if we think in the context of the Olympics, if she misses the 3A in the SP, then the judges might bury her and not let her pull up, like they did to Mao Asada in the last Olympics.

    Alternatively, if she nails solid competitive content in the SP then misses the 3A in the LP but completes everything else as planned, she will probably still be good in the overall standings.

    Granted, as you alluded to, Mirai will need to be in stellar physical and mental shape in order to hold it together during an LP after a fall on the 3A.
     
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  28. mag

    mag Well-Known Member

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    Probably not the best way to describe it but it goes along with

    The pointed toes don't cause the UR. Mirai needs to work on her rotation speed and height so she can get all the way around consistently. (I am sure she is working on this.) The pointed toe helps her stand up on cheated jumps. Basically Mirai lands short (often forward although in real time the jump can look clean) on her toe pick and then is miraculously able to pivot around and stand up on the jump. You are supposed to put the toe in first and then glide out backward with the only curve being the curve of the edge. It is absolutely shocking that she was able to stand up on a 3A that was over 1/2 a revolution short!

    It is dangerous because it is an extremely good way to get a spiral fracture if the blade get stuck as you cuff it out.
     
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  29. Spun Silver

    Spun Silver Well-Known Member

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    She just proved she can hold it together after a big fail... all those -3s.
     
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  30. Areski

    Areski Well-Known Member

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    IDK, but theoritically pointed toe soon before the landing can make her get into the contact with ice earlier than it would be otherwise hence creating this problem. I don't claim it's true but ... When Mirai URs she often skims through on forward part of her blade unlike f.e Lozko or K. Chen who seemingly land on full blade 1/4 before backward with their body weight or more short when they UR. In case of Lozko it is very striking even though her rotation is fast, but I can tell without slo-mo that she's short of rotation (when she is). Slo-mo only confirms that I was right. Her jumps are smaller than Mirai. I've seen though Mirai jumps with UR call that were obvious like last year in Boston -3T < one. I saw it in real time too and I doubted they would not call it and let it stay.

    I don't claim that I am great in technical analysis just wanted to share my observation.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2017
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