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Mirai vs. Frank

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by haribobo, Jan 31, 2011.

  1. aymkjb88

    aymkjb88 New Member

    Not sure if it's been posted, but it's a quite insightful article about Mirai and Frank's relationship, Frank's coaching style and Mirai's mental issue, with cute mention of Evan and Mirai's friendship.

    Nagasu's biggest challenge could be her own doubts

    kwanette and (deleted member) like this.
  2. geod2

    geod2 New Member

    Yes, any coach in any sport who wants to instill focus and emotional control in their athlete needs to first set the example themselves.
    FC has an enviable record, but honestly, how can he (with a straight face) tell Mirai not to cry in the K&C while he allows himself to get noticeably pissed and abusive there.
    Oh well, this is all probably much ado about nothing.

  3. Extranjera

    Extranjera Member

    Frank was much more supportive for Kwan at 1997 nats than for Mirai. Maybe because Mirai isn't such a famous skater yet? I don't believe he would tell her something like that if she was as much decorated competitior as Kwan was.
  4. aliceanne

    aliceanne Well-Known Member

    I have read it differently in various places on all 3 counts. In fact I saw a televised interview where Goebel said himself that Frank "fired me". I also read a direct quote in an interview with Carroll that he wished he'd had the courage to tell Bowman that he was a drug addict.
  5. taf2002

    taf2002 zexy demon

    Frank? abusive? Otay....

    This is bull. Michelle went out there & tried her best; Mirai didn't. Michelle had a comp like Mirai at the Goodwill Games, I forgot what year but both she & Tim Goebel just totally blew if for no good reason & Frank acted exactly the same to them as to Mirai. When your parents are disappointed in you because they know you could do better but just didn't try your best do they say it's ok or do they show their disapproval?
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2011
  6. bardtoob

    bardtoob Former Choreographer for Anna Maria Tragikova

    Well, he was. It is very sad.
  7. Extranjera

    Extranjera Member

    Why exactly do you think Mirai didn't try her best?
  8. Stormy

    Stormy Well-Known Member

    She flubbed a spin of all things. A spin she should be able to do in her sleep with both hands and one skate tied behind her back. Even Alissa in her really bad freeskates never messed up a spin that I can recall.

    Maybe Frank is fed up with her. Maybe Mirai really does need to get her head on straight for once. If Frank is right and she didn't get her s*it together until three weeks before Nationals, then he has every right to be PO'ed.

    I don't pay my coach to be my very bestest friend and coddle me and tell me everything is ok when I place badly. I pay her to kick my ass and push me when I don't want to be pushed and make me the best skater I can be. And that's what Mirai's family pays Frank for. If Mirai isn't holding up her end of the deal, to skate and train and be prepared for these situations, it's not Frank's fault.
    manleywoman and (deleted member) like this.
  9. mrinalini

    mrinalini Well-Known Member

    Maybe because Kwan's problems in 1997 were due to factors beyond her control such as boot problems and a growth spurt? If I recall correctly, she also talked about skating to defend rather than attacking. Mirai, OTOH, seems to be succumbing to pressure and making silly errors in giving titles away. She certainly has it within her to beat both Czisny and Flatt at her best, so I can't entirely blame Frank for getting exasperated with her. Perhaps this season Mirai's been hampered by a lack of training time due to recovery from an injury, but still, she has failed to deliver enough times after leading in the short that it's safe to say her problems aren't entirely physical.

    And I don't think Frank tiptoed around Michelle just because she was so decorated. I recall him making comments about her having to lose weight at some point ("fat doesn't fly"?), and immediately after their split I think he said something to the effect of how athletes who've been at the top for a while want to start hearing only what they want to hear.
  10. senorita

    senorita New Member

    Fs is rather sensitive in my opinion, Frank is not the Karoly family, I wonder what would happen if fs had a coach like Bela.
    Caroll should have been more gentle but I can see he is rather old now and runs out of patience and courage, every season Mirai doesnt deliver it is for him a cost, time cost, sentimental, reputation, dunno. But how many skaters does he train, is it possible to manage all? I think i counted a dozen at nationals.
    Orser was more bitchy, he was used to Yuna´s all sweety OH MY GOD world record breaking marks , and now he cant handle Adam. I havent noticed him with Gao.

    The bottom line is that Mirai ´s sp wont be at Worlds and I loved the portions part so much :(
  11. Oldsk8ter

    Oldsk8ter Active Member

    Frank did call her an idiot and he didn't ask her why she didn't attack. He made a statement about her beating herself and then said he was sorry it happened that way.
  12. haribobo

    haribobo Well-Known Member

    :respec: Agreed on both counts.

    I could just as easily start an Orser thread about what a knob he is, but I think that topic has been done to death already...
  13. query5

    query5 New Member

    i doublt if frank was more supportive for michelle than Mirai.
    i think Mirai has too big of an ego.
    for me personally i think she shouldn't have won the Us nationals at a young age and by winning the way she did.
    she won the short, 3rd and long and won overall. okay. but she skated decent not great. they overmarked her pc's.
    in other words they held her up-marked up her pc's scores a full point compared to caroline zhang, now gao and these other skaters.
    she was good but not that good yet.

    she got to the olympics, held up.thought she should be held up.
    but i think Mirai is worse enemy. so far outside of junior nationals , i have yet to see her fight in the long program. she skates through her program, but doesn't fight. -well why should she, everyone is telling her she is best skater in world, you don't have to fight -scores will come even though you screw up, we will hold you up. pcs and other wise , why-
    1)frank-his reputation
    2) you are a decent skater,
    3) you do have good presentation,
    4) you are told you are gifted.
    5) she feels she entitled to preferential treatment.
    but unless you fight somone with less gifts and more practice will beat you out. how they keep fighting in their programs when they mess up, you give up
    when things go mirai way-she is happy , when they don't she doesn't seem to understand why.she expects it to go her way all the time.
  14. Bostonfan

    Bostonfan Well-Known Member

    This made me think of his infamous quote at the 2000 Nationals: "I brought 2 guns with me. One fired, and the other one didn't" (referencing Sasha and NNN). Pretty blunt assessment that no doubt affected NNN's "being"
  15. brina

    brina Well-Known Member

    To me it isn't even about the stuff Frank said to her in the K&C, it's more about the stuff he's saying to the media. If I were Mirai I would be questioning why I (or my family) am paying this man when he is saying all of these embarrassing things in public. Sure there is an interest in why she didn't perform up to the level she could, but why spew it out in such a fashion that makes Mirai look like a lazy slacker?? He could say, she wasn't prepared enough. Better luck next season, and that is that. The trash-talking makes one wonder if he's trying to save his own image over the situation, whereas the "tough love" could definitely be done between Frank and Mirai alone.
  16. Yukari Lepisto

    Yukari Lepisto Active Member

    From Phil Hersh
  17. smarts1

    smarts1 Well-Known Member

    It's probably cuz the situation was slightly different-- Mirai didn't attack, Kwan did, but it just didn't work. And besides, Mirai didn't bomb as badly as Kwan did at that Nationals.
  18. Yazmeen

    Yazmeen Well-Known Member

    But even MK has been bluntly, and roundly criticized by her coach to the press (Rafael in 2004); this was not a private conversation between the two, and she had performed well and won:

    "We are going to have a serious conversation after the world championships," he was saying. "If she decides to skate (at the 2006 Winter Olympic Games, which she has said is quite likely), we will make plans and talk about trying to get new stuff into the programs, like combination spins and new positions and other things like that, if she really wants to get better and compete with the up-and-coming skaters.

    "Everything starts to cook now and you cannot cook when you have nothing in the refrigerator," he continued. "You should develop, right? If you do not develop, somebody can come up and beat you."

  19. senorita

    senorita New Member

    Oh boy that is an awful thing to say to media...
  20. PDilemma

    PDilemma Well-Known Member

    But did Frank say that or was that Hersh's extrapolation of what he said?
    kwanette and (deleted member) like this.
  21. senorita

    senorita New Member

    I dont know but whoever said it Hersh or Caroll, shouldnt have said it for a 17 year old. For none actually.
  22. aliceanne

    aliceanne Well-Known Member

  23. John 3 17

    John 3 17 Well-Known Member

    Maybe because Adam's SP wasn't aired on TV and not everyone here subscribes to IN?? I certainly don't, so I didn't know.

    To anyone else who's just fine w/ what FC did the other day, please name me other incidences of top-level, well-known coaches (obviously other than Brian Orser from the MSP, which I missed) who were rude in the K&C knowing they were on national tv. I really can't think of another and that's why I'm disappointed in FC for his behavior here.

  24. rfisher

    rfisher Will you rise like a phoenix or be a burnt chicken

    Sure she can leave. She can decide if she wants a real shot at an OGM and train like she needs to or she can skate for fun at an expensive cost. The decision is hers to make.

    If I had a kid who had the talent and desire to be a champion figure skater, I'd send them to Frank Carroll in a heartbeat.
  25. John 3 17

    John 3 17 Well-Known Member

    How do you know she didn't "try her best"? It was her best that night.

    Especially when Frank of ALL people knows what a true slacker is: Chris Bowman. Chris Bowman was a drug-addict. Mirai's not. He shouldn't be talking about her this way in public.

    Last edited: Jan 31, 2011
  26. John 3 17

    John 3 17 Well-Known Member

    Last edited: Jan 31, 2011
  27. John 3 17

    John 3 17 Well-Known Member

    Frank must've said something along those lines for Hersh to guess that's what he meant. Frank is an OLD HAND dealing with the media and should know that the media will "extrapolate"; he should've been more careful talking to Hersh if he didn't want this said this way; he's no newbie.

    And as for th "mooning" comment, what skater doesn't bend over to tie their laces in front of the cameras for all the world to see? Maybe they do it closer to the boards and he's mad that she did it at center ice but to tell HERSH this is a blunder.

  28. aliceanne

    aliceanne Well-Known Member

    I remember Charlene Wong grabbing Mirai and shaking her before her LP in 2009 (Wong looked angry). Mirai had skated a disasterous short (after winning in 2008). Mirai looked positively hysterical when they announced her name for the LP and Wong practically shoved her on the ice.

    She ended up skating well and was shown backstage laughing with her competitors afterward.

    I don't know anything about Mirai's training habits, but apparently she is quite a handful at competitions.
  29. John 3 17

    John 3 17 Well-Known Member

    I meant rude in the K&C after the skater screwed up... Wong sounds like she just motivated her before a skate.

  30. LuckyCharm

    LuckyCharm Well-Known Member


    Why? Everybody saw it anyway. Now, why did Hersh print it? It didn't seem to have much to do with anything else that was said, unless he was thinking it was further evidence of Mirai's nonchalance.