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Michelle Kwan vs. Joannie Rochette - who wins?

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Sugar, Apr 3, 2008.

  1. tylersf

    tylersf Active Member

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    Are talking about career, or personal preference?
     
  2. MR-FAN

    MR-FAN Kostner Softie

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    I'm Joannie's #1 fan, and even I have to say How Dare You!
     
  3. Simone411

    Simone411 I'm Clippy. I love Ashley and Janny!

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    My answer is simple. They both win. <3
     
    LynnW, sadya, RockTheTassel and 4 others like this.
  4. tylersf

    tylersf Active Member

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    I agree!!!! I love them both for different reasons.
     
    sadya, paskatefan, Simone411 and 2 others like this.
  5. bardtoob

    bardtoob Former Choreographer for Anna Maria Tragikova

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    Agreed!!!

    My story is that Michelle soundly trounced Joannie at 2003, 2004, and 2005 Worlds, but Joannie did not hit her prime until the 2006 Olympic Season through the 2010 Olympic Season, and I am sticking to it!!!
     
  6. Jot the Dot Dot

    Jot the Dot Dot Headstrong Buzzard

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    THE FANS! ;):D:40beers:
     
  7. ichiro

    ichiro Well-Known Member

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    Both for totally different reasons
     
  8. screech

    screech Well-Known Member

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    Personally, I think that if they were at their peak at the same time, I'd go for Joannie. More powerful, and stronger jumps, while still being graceful.
     
    skatepixie, FSfan107, shine and 3 others like this.
  9. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    Well after Micelle retirement, my favorite skater was Joannie Rochette.
    I can't choose, I love them both. If I would choose to watch only one, I would choose Michelle, but really, I love them both.
     
  10. LilJen

    LilJen Reaching out with my hand sensitively

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    This. Both are amazing skaters, very strong in all categories.
     
  11. Fiero425

    Fiero425 Well-Known Member

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    OCO; isolated seasons of success compared to an era being ruled by MK?! More into jumpers like Surya, Irina, & Tara! :rolleyes: :wall: :encore:
     
  12. ks777

    ks777 Well-Known Member

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    of course Michelle... no comparison. She is a 5 time world champion... She will always be considered one of the best of all time.
    Joannie was an excellent skater but she will never be considered one of the best of all time. She didn't even win a world title.
     
    cbd1235, blue_idealist and Fiero425 like this.
  13. Fiero425

    Fiero425 Well-Known Member

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    I'm no fan of MK's here, but this whole thread is the most ridiculous thing I've seen in ages! :rolleyes: :wall: :duh: :p :kickass:
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2017
    Yazmeen, Jeschke and blue_idealist like this.
  14. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

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    Probably not since the original poster started the thread in 2008. :p

    It's not surprising that no one responded and it lay festering and neglected in the Archives till someone conjured it back to life.
     
    Simone411 and bardtoob like this.
  15. Fiero425

    Fiero425 Well-Known Member

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    But Michelle was done and her legacy secured! It was ridiculous back then to have a comparison and it's even more so since all's been said and done on both of them! :rolleyes: :wall: :drama:
     
  16. bardtoob

    bardtoob Former Choreographer for Anna Maria Tragikova

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    Well good for Joannie doing better since then :D
     
  17. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Michelle under 6.0 wins I believe.

    Joannie with a relatively good skater win overs Michelle under IJS I feel.

    It is true Joannie wasnt nearly as successful but Kwan didnt have to compete against the likes of Asada or Kim either. Lets face it, she certainly wouldnt have 5 world titles if her prime coincided with theirs instead of her only competition being Slutskaya most of her career, lol!
     
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  18. bardtoob

    bardtoob Former Choreographer for Anna Maria Tragikova

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    Whatever! Kim idolized Michelle. Asada used Michelle's choreographer and coach. There wouldn't have been either without Michelle as inspiration. Michelle set the standard.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2017
  19. giselle23

    giselle23 Well-Known Member

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    Didn't we learn about "skating while Russian" at Sochi?
     
  20. Rina RUS

    Rina RUS Well-Known Member

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    Really? :) I enjoy. I like this thread, it is nice, including those comments, in which 2 skaters are compared indeed (not just "both win").

    Such a nice reason to watch some Rochette's videos too, yet I'm not sure, that anybody is ready to waste time and to tell me, which Rochette's videos can be called the best. :)
     
  21. Rina RUS

    Rina RUS Well-Known Member

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    :) So... is it Michelle who learned the choreographer and the coach to be so good? Is Michelle everything, but her coach is nothing? :)

    Maybe the skating will have been not the same without Michelle, yet it would have been developed even without her or without somebody else. Somebody else would have been an idol for young skaters, even ballerinas, or athletes from other sports, or movies could give the inspiration. As for techniques... it would have been developed, woulnd't it? Maybe a little bit slower... who knows. :)
     
  22. tylersf

    tylersf Active Member

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    My favorite was when Rochette skated in the 2010 Olympics and won the bronze. Her mother recently passed away and she dedicated this performance to her.
    https://youtu.be/Fkfa_F2RcdA
     
    Rina RUS likes this.
  23. bardtoob

    bardtoob Former Choreographer for Anna Maria Tragikova

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    It took a good enough coach and choreographer to develop the content and a good enough skater to execute the content in order to see what was possible.

    https://youtu.be/IEklWrSU8VQ
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2017
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  24. falling_dance

    falling_dance Coaching Patrick

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    In addition to her 2010 Olympic short program:

    2005 Canadians FS, "Firebird"

    2009 Canadians FS, "Concierto de Aranjuez"

    2009 Worlds SP, "Summertime"

    2013 Japan Open, "Notre-Dame de Paris"

    Her 2010 Canadians free skate to "Samson et Dalila" was also brilliant, but I can't find it on YouTube.
     
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  25. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    giselle23, the "skating while Russian" only applies to when you are skating in Russia. What are Sotnikova's other great results or times she was visibly overscored other than Sochi? Yeah exactly. Russia didnt even qualify 3 ladies for the 2014 Olympics. And Japanese, U.S, and Canadian skaters are often blatantly overscored on home ice too, but just didnt happen to coincide with as controversial as high profile a controversial result as the Sotnikova Sochi one. Watch Asada's joke win at NHK 2012 for her 3 triple LP or Chan's farce win at the 2013 worlds in Canada, or Bourne & Kraatz coincidentally winning the GPF both years it was in Canada beating teams they had never beaten in that 3-4 period, and disputes of all 3 U.S ladies placements in the short program of the 2002 Olympics still occurs today, and so on.
     
  26. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    giselle23, the "skating while Russian" only applies to when you are skating in Russia. What are Sotnikova's other great results or times she was visibly overscored other than Sochi? Yeah exactly. Russia didnt even qualify 3 ladies for the 2014 Olympics. And Japanese, U.S, and Canadian skaters are often blatantly overscored on home ice too, but just didnt happen to coincide with as controversial or as high profile a controversial result as the Sotnikova Sochi one. Watch Asada's joke win at NHK 2012 for her 3 triple LP or Chan's farce win at the 2013 worlds in Canada, or Bourne & Kraatz coincidentally winning the GPF both years it was in Canada beating teams they had never beaten in that 3-4 period, and disputes of all 3 U.S ladies placements in the short program of the 2002 Olympics still occurs today, and so on.

    Also I know I am in the minority but I think Sotnikova skated excellently at the 2014 Olympics, arguably showed a higher technical standard than Kim and Kostner, while also being worthy of pretty high PCS and arguably deserved to win. At the very worst I would have had her as a close bronze medalist, probably no more than 5 points behind either overall, and I dont think her win was ridiculous like most people. Her winning margin and scores in various areas relative to Kim, Kostner, and Asada in the LP were ridiculous however, but the result was far from the worst or most wrong I have ever seen in the sport. Again I know I am the vast minority there.
     
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  27. Fiero425

    Fiero425 Well-Known Member

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    Skating's been shady for as long as I can remember! It's been blatant at times when a favorite needs to leave blood on the ice to lose! I should start a thread describing the total disregard for fair play when home countries are scored higher than deserved and defending champions can be given the benefit of the doubt with multiple errors! Michelle Kwan has been a victim and perp. when it comes to a contest! Yagudin had to make 3 glaring errors to barely lose A GP event to Michael Weiss who skated very well! It's been criminal and even with the new system, questions are raised all the time! Justifying it just makes the contest more of a joke! Red Button tripped over himself many a time shocked when a result went against conventional wisdom! :rolleyes: :wall: :eek:
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2017
  28. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    This thread and others like it are so stupid. It's one thing to compare impact on sport, legendary status, your own preferences, compare skills/attributes, etc. But to try to come up with an objective measurement of two single skaters who had success in different judging systems, who were of different ages, and developed and learned different skills when they were younger, and who both had different competition except the few seasons when they overlapped and then make a clear declarative statement?

    Who wins? Sonia Henie or Yu Na Kim? Madge Sayers or Adelina Sotnikova? Dick Button or Yuzuru Hanyu?
     
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  29. bardtoob

    bardtoob Former Choreographer for Anna Maria Tragikova

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    :rofl: How about ... :rofl: ... Henie vs Sotnikova in Sochi?
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2017
    Areski likes this.