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Mao's LP at the Olympics

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by worldsnice12, Jun 18, 2014.

  1. kittyjake5

    kittyjake5 Well-Known Member

    Who is Amy01? Goodness all this bickering going on.

    Mao's LP was beautifully skated, simply for me the best.

    That is not to say other skaters did not move me with their performances
    at the Olympics, Dai (my main man), Caro's SP & LP, D/W, Adelina, Yuna, V/T and S/S.
  2. eternitygoddess

    eternitygoddess Well-Known Member

    ^A Mao uber (judging from this thread and her post history) who came in and derailed the conversation.
  3. Amy03

    Amy03 Active Member

    Aww how sweet, atleast my posts were about the performance and I wasn't the one soiling this thread with personal insults while trying to lecture others how to be calm and levelheaded!
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2014
  4. Meoima

    Meoima Well-Known Member

    Okay, so there is only 1 Amy, and that is Amy03, not Amy01 isn't it???? :confused: I wonder how the thread goes into this way!!
  5. Amy03

    Amy03 Active Member

    yes you got it right :D
  6. begin34

    begin34 Member

    I see no reason why they would do that? There's no way Mao would've medaled above anyone at that point. She wouldn't have been an obstacle for Lipnitskaia overall. If you're only talking about placements then that's a bit far-fetched. I doubt dishonest judging was taken so far merely for a distant 5th place.
    Mao being underscored isn't dissimilar with other skaters who've been slated to skate in earlier groups. Julia receiving generous scores is just the judges being consistent with their Russian inflation. I really doubt Mao's performance was specifically targeted so that her FS score would be below every Russian, regardless of medals.

    Biased, bot--same implication. Fanatics will stick by their biases no matter what the facts not necessarily bc they have it out for the other skaters but bc they want to validate their favorite. Tbh I bring this up bc Yuna's fans seem to have made quite the impression on you and it's not something that should stick. Derisive commenters on Youtube really have no credence in most conversations so there's no need to consider them at all.
  7. nguyhm

    nguyhm Active Member

    Sadly enough I think that Mao would still "lose" to Sotnikova even if she had a "clean" SP and the LP delivered that night. Sotnikova's scores would be even more inflated to insure her the gold medal. I hate to be cynical but it seems to me that it was obvious that a russian girl would win the gold no matter what. The surprise might have been that it was Sotnikova instead of Lipnitskaia. I love Mao and would love to see her win but it would not have been possible. Regardless and back on track with the topic, Mao delivered the best LP of the night and it should have been first rather than 3rd.
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2014
  8. Meoima

    Meoima Well-Known Member

    I never said they singled out Mao's performance only. I only said I think she was underscored.
    I remember a document written by a researcher (sorry my memory is bad) in which he was pointing out the 2 Russian girls got more biased scores than the rest. Russian inflation like you said. It's obviously they tried to place the Russian girls higher. And Mao and Yuna were the one got lower scores out of bias. (maybe Caro, too, I don't remember that much). But that pretty sums up my doubt that they held down Mao so Yulia can be placed higher.

    I have a feeling that, t was pretty much like the 6.0 system, whoever skated early would be underscored a bit (despite how well they skate) so the one who skated latter would be saved. Those in the latter group was judged much more lenient.

    I think its not Mao only who was underscored, but all the ladies before the third and last group. But Mao stuck out because she performed much better than all. And she is the only one on that level among the early groups. Anyways, I guess they knew which scores to give to Mao so Yulia still could be placed higher than Mao despite falling, though. It's simple math.

    The judge acted as they usually did in the 6.0 system, scored her lower than she was supposed to be. And the Russian ladies got higher scores than they deserved so the judges can place them higher in the ranking.

    In the 6.0 system they can always say: because she skate in the early group so we mark her low, end of story. And this kind of scoring is exactly against the idea of CoP. And it's exactly sound like what happened at Sochi. They can always they they like Adelina better than Yuna in that particular night.

    In some forums, it's against the rules to call anyone "bot" so I used the word "biased". :) Anyways youtube have a lot of trolls so you're right, I should have ignored them in the first place. It's just those harsh comments are right under the clip so I was annoyed at that moment.
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2014
    gotoschool likes this.
  9. hertmirsh

    hertmirsh Banned Member

    No way. There is only so far the judges are even willing to go. They probably were already dreading the public reaction to the farce they carried out as it was, and as it turns out for good reason.
  10. eternitygoddess

    eternitygoddess Well-Known Member

    ^Everyone thought "no way" Russian judges would inflate scores that much; people were still optimistic/in denial after they saw the SP scores, and look what happened. I don't doubt that the judges would've held back Asada for Sotnikova. It's simple - just give Asada lots of tech calls, hold back on her PCS, and boost up Sotnikova's PCS and ignore tech calls for her.
  11. Jeschke

    Jeschke #teamtrainwreck #teamschott

    this was no standing ovation? okay :)
  12. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Yuzuru, Medvedeva, T&M, Shibs, P&C

    I have no doubt that if Mao had skated a clean SP, with a rotated 3A and without ur on other jumps, she would have placed in 1st or very close to Yu na-Adelina-Carolina's placements. Her relatively low scores in the LP were due to the fact that she skated way too early. She was not even in the penultimate group. Ideally it should not matter but it's a residue from the 6.0 system that judges hold the higher marks for the final group. I have no problem with Mao's overall placement. She did herself proud by delivering a performance that will be remembered for a long time.
  13. smarts1

    smarts1 Well-Known Member

    I still think Miki should have gotten the silver over Joannie at those worlds. That being said, Miki only got a partial standing ovation (you can even see people in the front still sitting) in comparison to the others who got full standing ovations.

    I understand where this is coming from, but honestly, the judges knew who had the most difficult content, and that was Mao. No one was going to touch that performance technically. No one else in the competition could do a triple axel. No one was planning an 8 triple free skate. No one else was doing a 3-3loop combo. The judges didn't need to see anyone else skate to know that even if Mao skated first in the LP or last. And Mao hit all of her elements. The fact that Mao skated earlier doesn't negate the quality of her performance technically and artistically and unfortunately, in comparison to the rest of her competitors, she was undermarked. The judges knew what kind of marks they were going to throw out for the final flight of ladies skaters... We've seen those numbers (140+ with approximately 75 in TES and PCS from Yuna) time after time. And unfortunately, the judges fell flat on their face and undermarked Mao on both TES and PCS despite seeing the most technically demanding free skate from a lady ever. It doesn't matter when she skated because no one could beat that, and everyone should have known it. She should have beaten everyone that night on the FS.
    gotoschool likes this.
  14. MrLucky

    MrLucky Active Member

    If we were talking about an actual SPORT Mao might/should have won the LP.

    Figure skating is ...umm..different than other sports.
    Most of us know that..
  15. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Yuzuru, Medvedeva, T&M, Shibs, P&C


    I am not denying that she should have been marked based on what she put out, but I am simply stating a fact that this is FS is being judged, even though the COP is not supposed to take the skating order into consideration.
  16. bardtoob

    bardtoob Former Choreographer for Anna Maria Tragikova

    I wish I could +rep you one last time for having and a thoughtful opinion even if I don't agree with it.
  17. bardtoob

    bardtoob Former Choreographer for Anna Maria Tragikova

    I wish I could +rep you one last time for having a thoughtful opinion even if I don't agree with it.
  18. julieann

    julieann Well-Known Member

    I was in LA as well and you must have misses pairs and dance if you think those ladies were the only ones who got standing ovations.

    I think Mao was underscored for some reason, and looking back on the PBP thread that day, most people did too.
  19. smarts1

    smarts1 Well-Known Member

    I was just making an example for the ladies event.
  20. usova94gold

    usova94gold Active Member

    Vash01 is right. Yes just looking at performance Mao deserved more points, and it would be nice if she got them. However in reality with humans judging, things like skating order will matter even by well meaning individuals, and it is unrealistic to expect otherwise.
  21. fenway2

    fenway2 Well-Known Member

    I was at those worlds and the standing ovations for Alissa and Rachael (but especially Alissa) has been exaggerated so much over the years. Rachael had many people standing but it was far from a full standing o. Alissa had several rows in the front stand but very few stood overall. Tugba Karademir had a nice-size Turkish delegation stand for her. Are we going to start hearing she had a massive standing ovation next? :lol:

    The standing ovation for Yuna Kim was thunderous and instantaneous. Everyone else? Not so much. Anyone other than Yuna's ovation could be characterized as partial.
  22. grassroots39

    grassroots39 Banned Member

    How did Miki get robbed of silver at the 2009 worlds. If anything she probably was gifted bronze. She got higher PCS than both Rochette and Asada which is crazy with her program full of heavy two footed skating, mediocre basics, and no choreography, line, or stretch at all. Yet even with that ridiculous help she barely beat Mao and lost to Joannie. So unless you think she was undermarked on the TES on something she certainly wasn't robbed. The judges couldn't have given her more on PCS than they did, and already gave way too much.
  23. gotoschool

    gotoschool Well-Known Member

    For me The Most Profoundly Moving Best Performance I've ever seen

    Mao Asada's Olympic performance was magnanimous and full of epic grandeur like a Shakespearean tragedy with a silver lining- only the medium of transmission was not words but a multitude of lithe and exquisite body positions punctuated with dashing runs to a myriad of quick whipsaw jumps, drilling into the very depths of our souls.

    I found her to be by far the most expressive and graceful with her upper body gestures, as when she would exit jumps with a tender flow of her hands, arms, head, neck and back to where the jump had been, as if waving a final farewell to a forgotten friend or loved one that she would never see again. Only Mao had the infinite subtlety, complexity and grace of the Japanese tea ceremony at her fingertips.

    Vulnerable yet Defiant Mao was the infinitely tender spinning princess whose exquisite agility and phenomenal flexibility were mingled with the fire of a burning sorrow and hopefulness that are the very essence of redemption and spine tingling beauty.

    I also felt that this was the best program I have ever seen in terms of pacing and building to a climax and release to final resolution that mirrored the structure of the music. This is evidenced by her slow beginning that gradually accelerated from jumping pass to jumping pass, before the entrance to the final pass where the subtle wave-like gestures of the arms became an abrupt downward thrust as if pounding a massive chord on the piano. Then, when exiting the last pass the gentle, wave-like flow morphs into a final abrupt fling of her arms back as if to be rid once and for all of the ghosts that haunt her soul in preparation for full liberation. She hangs suspended in the revolutions of her Biellman spin.

    Then, in the step sequence, where the tears begin to rush as a flooded river, she enters a transcendent dimension that exorcises all her Olympic heart aches, near misses and humiliations and rejoices in a peak performance that surmounts Everest- missing out on Torino while watching Shizuka Arakawa, who she had a great shot of beating, take the gold, silver in Vancouver with a score that would have beat Arakawa by 15 points, and the short program disaster at Sochi. It is the most cathartic, frantic yet nimble and ethereal step sequence I have ever seen. The flying spins at the end are her final descent back to earth after carrying us through her flight to visit the ghosts that haunted her soul.

    In a parting gesture, I imagine her looking heavenward to say farewell to the divine spirit of her mother as she whispers, "I did this all, including the triple axel, just for you. Mom, How did I do?" Ultimately, her monumental achievement cannot be quantified because it is too holy to be evaluated in any rational way. I just wanted to thank you, Mao Asada, for digging deep to reveal to us the full beauty and purity of your brave spirit. You have left us with the most precious gift anyone could ever give.
  24. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

    :respec: gotoschool! great post!
    gotoschool likes this.
  25. eternitygoddess

    eternitygoddess Well-Known Member


    Purple prose much?
  26. rosewood

    rosewood Well-Known Member

    The poet. Welcome to FSU, gotoschool!
    gotoschool likes this.
  27. gotoschool

    gotoschool Well-Known Member

    Thank you lala and rosewood. I have watched Mao's Sochi LP so many times and it still brings tears to my eyes. I remember a comment about two people in a family watching this. I think it was a mother and a daughter. When the program was over, one asked the other, "Why are you crying?" Then, the other asked, "Why aren't you crying?" This shows the contrasting reaction that two people can have to a great performance.
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2014
  28. skateboy

    skateboy Well-Known Member

    Oh, come on. What's wrong with a little purple prose?

    It was a nice tribute.
    gotoschool likes this.
  29. jiejie

    jiejie Well-Known Member

    "Well-meaning individuals" being a key phrase here. At Sochi there were some indications not everybody involved in tech panelling/judging fit this description.
  30. miki88

    miki88 Active Member

    Mao's jumps have lovely air positions and soft landings, which makes them appear effortless. Compared to Mao, Kostner has longer set ups to her jumps.

    I don't think the results really matter so much because she delivered a performance for the ages. Her inspiring comeback was mentioned as a highlight of the Olympics from several media sources and she was the most tweeted athlete during the Olympics. I believe Mao came out a winner in the end.
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2014
    gotoschool likes this.