1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Hi all! No longer will threads be closed after 1000 (ish) messages. We may close if one gets so long to cause an issue and if you would like a thread closed to start a new one after a 1000 posts then just use the "Report Post" function. Enjoy!

Mao to use triple axel later this season

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by japanice, Nov 21, 2012.

  1. kwanatic

    kwanatic Well-Known Member

    I just don't want her to do what she did back in 2010 and make everything about the 3A. If this season has taught her anything it's that her overall skating is amazing and as long as she backs it up with solid jumps, she'll do well. For that reason I feel like she should be focusing on rotating her current layout of jumps. With only 3 and 4 triples she's getting 120+...if she can consistently rotate 6 or 7 triples, maximize her levels on everything else, and deliver her programs the way she has been, she has a great chance of winning or at least putting pressure on Yu-Na to deliver.

    Mao should focus on being clean and executing well. Gambling with the 3A is hit or miss, though mostly miss b/c she hasn't done it in a long time. In the past she's shot herself in the foot in the SP by messing it up. The error in the SP basically takes her out of the running for the a medal. If she wants to do the 3A, she should go back to featuring it in the LP, at least that way she won't have to fight her way out of a huge hole in the LP.
  2. Katarzyna

    Katarzyna Well-Known Member

  3. rayhaneh

    rayhaneh Well-Known Member

    There is footage of her on YT landing pretty good 3A (fully rotated or close) both at GPF and JP Nats during training sessions, so it seems she is able to do it in training at least.

    As for the Japanese media, they are absolutely obsessed by Mao's 3A and Hanyu and Takahashi's quads, and this obsession knows no bounds at present :yikes: There is not one bit of news about either of these athletes that doesn't mention Mao's quest for getting the 3A back into her program, or Takahashi's struggle with getting his 4T back - and Hanyu's ease with it. Overall, I think Japanese skaters right now are lucky that the sport as grown so popular in their country, but it also has its drawbacks....
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2013
  4. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Yuzuru, Medvedeva, T&M, Shibs, P&C

    I agree about not trying it in the SP. However, I have to disagree about 2010. That 3A won her an Olympic silver medal and a world title. How can that be considered not good enough?

    Skaters do have their favorite jumps. Some skaters are able to do more difficult jumps more easily than simple ones -e.g. Viktor Petrenko's strongest jump was the 3A; Kristi Yamaguchi could do a 3Lz-3t combination, but not be able to do a simple 3sal consistently.

    With the COP punishing the skaters for a slight ur, the risk in 3A is greater now than it was in 2006. So it makes sense for Mao to not try that in the SP, but I don't see why she should not go for the high risk high reward situation in the LP.
  5. kwanatic

    kwanatic Well-Known Member

    I honestly think if Mao had put as much effort into other aspects of her skating that season (ie. spins, choreography, other jumps) as she did into the 3A she'd have had a much better chance of beating Yu-Na. Yu-Na had a great balance of the technical and the artistic, while Mao was heavily leaning toward the technical side of things. Her programs were built around the 3A. Right around the time Mao was starting to do better on her lutz, she and TAT abandoned it in favor of the 3A and we didn't see it again for nearly two years. Mao was still doing her 3F-3L. If she had worked on getting some extra height and really finishing the rotation she could have made that work. Just imagine what Vancouver would have been like if Mao had correct edge lutzes, a 3-3 and a 3A.

    My point is her balance in 2010 was very one-sided b/c of the 3A. I love that she has two lovely programs this year and I don't want to see her sacrifice that side of her skating to accommodate the 3A...which is what happened last time that jump became her focus.
  6. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Yuzuru, Medvedeva, T&M, Shibs, P&C

    Those lovely programs are not technically strong enough to win. She needs a higher point getter, and since she cannot do the lutz correctly, she needs to do what she CAN do- the 3A. I am not sure that she would have been able to improve the lutz enough to get full points. She was better off doing what she already did well. If she has a 3A and a 3f-3R or 3f-3t combination, she should be good technically.
  7. Doubletoe

    Doubletoe Well-Known Member

    On the contrary, underrotated jumps are punished LESS now, since a jump is not downgraded unless it's 1/2 turn underrotated. Back in 2006, jumps got downgraded for being more than 1/4 turn underrotated. So I think it's a worthwhile risk for Mao to take as long as she can pull off *almost* 3-1/2 rotations and stay upright. The biggest issue will be her head getting in the way as she gets ready to take off on her first 3A in competition when she's been doing the 2A all season. Practice is one thing, competition is quite another.
  8. NadineWhite

    NadineWhite Well-Known Member


    Vash01, I'm in total agreement with both of your aforementioned statements. :kickass: Also I agree with the poster that stated the 3axel's value should be raised for the women alone, because only one woman currently does it (Mao), thus marking its extreme rarity and therefore its value should go up. Jmho.

    By the way, since initially hearing about Mao adding back the 3axel, I've been over at youtube watching old glorious videos, my favorite being this one as concerns Mao's 3axel (textbook perfect per commentator Susie Wynne): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-sHFceaGEY :hat1:
  9. AndyWarhol

    AndyWarhol Well-Known Member


    Mao's spins and foot work are superior to Yuna's... It not like she is going to be about to get a level 5 on them....
  10. Akira Andrea

    Akira Andrea Well-Known Member

    This video is the topics on TV in the morning of 8th January in Japan
    Translating to English from Japanese

    This corner starts from today.
    My Sports: Mai Sports
    At the Super News, in the super news, it provides a sport corner every week on Monday.
    Yes, the name of the new corner is My Sports. Please, Mai Asada!
    Mai: “Nice to meet you! I will work hard being spirited from today. In this corner, I would like to introduce to you enough the attractiveness of various sports and the athletes which I have covered actually.”
    Mai Asada (24, from Nagoya city, she had ever played an active part in figure skating with her young sister Mao. Having left from competitions for the eligible player now, she sometimes participates to ice show etc.)
    She will do the role to draw out their various feelings by telling them her various feelings.
    I think that there is something which it can't relay except Mai there.
    In the various categories of sports, what topics did you select for your first news corner?
    Mai: “The first corner is here. I went to cover the figure skating. As a sports caster, I interviewed my younger sister Mao Asada who won the championship in the Japan Nationals in the end of last year enough.
    Mai: “Look, please!”
    Mai: “Today, I came to this Makomanai Ice Arena. The Japan Nationals will hold here.
    Mai: "What I selected for the first corner is the figure skating which I had continued for 15 years since 7 years old. I had been to Japan Nationals which was held last month.”
    Mai: “I paid attention to my younger sister Mao Asada this time. Although she faced the competition, freezing the triple Axel of her pronoun in this season, she won the championship in GP series after 5 years interval, namely, she won the championship in all of three events, such as Cup of China, NHK Trophy, GP Final. She is showing the comeback from last season which ended in the 6th place in the Worlds.”
    Short Program in 22nd December
    Mai: “But, she started with 2nd place because there were jump miss etc. in the short program. So, I would like to hope come-from-behind victory in the free skating.”
    Free Skating in 23th December
    Mai: “She achieved the championship for two seasons running in the Japan Nationals. She was designated to the Japan Representative for the Worlds which is held in March, too.”
    Mai: “Thank you very much.”
    Then, at 24th December
    Mai: “To such Mao, I prepared a surprise. In the Christmas Eve after ending the exhibition of the next day of the competition, I opened a small victory celebration of only our sister.”
    Mai: “Congratulations!”
    Mao: “Thank you!”
    Mai: “Congratulations on your victory in the Japan Nationals!”
    Mao: “Yes”
    Both: “Merry Christmas! Cheers!”
    Mai: “Oh! Delicious! It’s easy to drink!
    Mao: “No!”
    Mai: “How do you think about this liquor?”
    Mao: “I only feel that this is just 'liquor'.”
    Mai: “It is 24th December today. It is Christmas Eve! After what years interval will we spend a time on Christmas Eve at only us in this way?”
    Mao: “It is since my sixth grade of an elementary school. Because I have participated to Japan Nationals since around the sixth grade of an elementary school, I have not had Christmas Day.”
    Mai: “Yes, it is. Always you were not in the home in around Christmas Day.”
    Mai: “The season continues, but the last competition of this year was finished. How did you think about your condition in the competition?”
    Mao: “The first half of the season 2012 finished. In the time of the beginning of the season, I started, having an anxious feelings about what degree I can recover to my previous condition, as for the level and the performance. But now, finishing the first half of the season, I think that I got better results than I expected for. Therefore, next, I think that I may be able to arrive at my goal finally by aiming at something upper moreover from there. I am thinking that the base for my performance may have been completed at last."
    Mai: “’The base was completed.’ As for the intendment of this phrase, it goes back until 2010. Mao who seemed as if she finished her best season, such as winning the silver medal in the Vancouver Olympics and winning the championship in the Worlds, decided on redoing a skating and a jump from the basics.”
    Mai: "You challenged to correcting a jump, but I think that to correct a jump was as difficult as the right-handed person changes into the lefty if saying simple, because you had already continued to perform a jump in your own style for about ten years. What is the biggest reason to have determined that you would correct your jump?"
    Mao: “At the time, I was suffering about the jump. In my childhood, I could do a jump even if I thought of nothing, because my body was light, too.
    Because I had grown taller since then and had sometimes felt strong pressures by various factors, I think that it made the timing etc. of my jump change gradually. Then, in the combination jump etc., it became difficult to perform the jump as I wished to. I began to feel sense of incongruity to my jump.”
    Mao: “However, as for Vancouver Olympics, I intended to have accomplished it anyhow by having a lot of practice to practice. Anyhow, I succeeded in the triple Axel, but I felt that that was the limits of my own skill already. Therefore, as soon as ending the Vancouver Olympics, I thought that I would like to correct my jump.”
    Mai: “By the determination which was firmed as soon as ending of Vancouver Olympics, she was apprenticed to the coach Nobuo Sato and began to correct her skating from the basics. But, of course, she can't get the result soon. She spent the involuntary season for two consecutive years and had even left a rink temporarily. It was freezing her triple Axel in the competition that Mao had decided, greeting this season.
    Mai: “In this season, you started without the triple Axel, but had you decided it in your mind?"
    Mao: “I had been practicing so as to add some elements other than Axel since last season and had practiced so as to leave only the good feeling while decreasing the practice of the triple-Axel in this season, but I was in the situation that I can't be conscious of only the Axel specially because it was unstable as for the other elements except Axel in last season, too. Because I thought that I would like to ascertain my base without the triple Axel for the present. This is the reason which I froze the triple Axel in this season. Moreover, it is because there was fear that it mayn't get approval as the triple Axel in the competition because the success probability of it in practice wasn't high enough yet.”
    Mai: “You have continued figure skating for a long time. Everybody is apt to associate the triple Axel, when saying 'Mao-chan', but you dared to make your triple Axel freeze in this season. Were there any big motive to do like that in your mind?”

    Be continued to

    "My Sports: Mai caster interviewed her younger sister Mao Asada as her first job."
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2013
  11. Akira Andrea

    Akira Andrea Well-Known Member

    My Sports: Mai Sports
    This video is the topics on TV in the morning of 8th January in Japan
    Translating to English from Japanese

    Mao: “Before, I had always thought that I would like to do my game with the Axel. Although I sometimes worried about Axel and suffered from it, I could have kept my mind strongly because it became my advantage.
    In recent season, because even the condition of my Axel had become unstable, I had not been able to keep my mind strongly. I think that the condition of my feelings is the cause, but, not only the Axel, but also the other elements had become unstable, too. Therefore, I thought that I would like to recover my strong mind by firming my basic skill by performing the basic jumps without triple Axel as a base in this season. I thought that it let's attempt to stop the Axel to the extent that I would forget the triple Axel and moreover my feelings would become clear.”
    Mai: “Because she had participated to the competitions with having frozen her triple Axel which can even say it's her pronoun, she began to get the good results in this season. On the one hand, as for the relation with coach Sato which greeted the 3rd season, too, there was a change. It became the big factor of her recovery.”
    Mao: “After entering this year, I became able to understand the lesson of teacher Nobuo very much. After changing the coach to the teacher, I began to reconstruct the skating from the basic skill. After having begun the lesson, sometimes I worried because I couldn't perform as same as his lesson although I could understand his lesson, and I often worried whether my way would fit his lesson, too. Then, the situation which I try to execute as same as his lesson but can't do so, continued for a long time. In the meantime, thinking, "Oh, it sould do in this way." increased gradually. Now finally, what the teacher is saying got to enter frankly into my body. I think that all as for my lesson became such feeling now.”
    Mai: “It is about 1 year until the Olympics. In this season, I think that she felt some response as for the recovery of her skill surely because she had won the championships all in 4 competitions which she participated so far. What will such Mao aim at in 2013?”
    Mai: “What do you aim at in 2013?”
    Mao: “As my ideal, I will aim at ‘perfect comeback’ in 2013.”
    Mai: “What do you mean with 'perfect'?
    Mao: “For the moment, it is that I succeed in the competition, putting either the triple Axel or the triple-triple combination in the program.”
    Mai: “For Mao, is it 'perfect' if either of the triple Axel or the triple-triple combination has entered in program?”
    Mao: “Yes, I will consent to it, too, if it is so.”

    My Sports: Mai caster interviewed her younger sister Mao Asada as her first job.
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2013
  12. os168

    os168 Active Member

    Except it was raised something like 3 or 4 times already over last few years right? With the most major overhaul value immediately after the Olympics. The new rules change also depreciate the Lutz value due to the risk/rewards, with depreciate GOE values over all for ALL jumps EXCEPT the 3A which has its own range of GOEs, as well as lessen penalty for UR penalties which ends up causing an rippling effect on the scale value on all other jumps making difficult 3/3 less advantaged compares to the likes of 3T3T or 2A/3T.

    How much more do you want like to see it changed before completely destroyed the quality of everything that have already caused an imbalance of equilibrium to favour that one jump from one lady which we hardly ever see?

    Good luck on the 3A for Mao. No matter what, a fully rotated 3A without cheating is a very impressive thing to see among the ladies.
  13. gingercrush

    gingercrush Well-Known Member

    Personally I think ISU needs to do what happens in gymnastics and essentially have a four year code and rules with only minor changes made after the first year of the code being in effect. Rule changes could still happen but would require 75% agreement or something. The constant changes do my head in. Regards to jumps, lol I have no idea what the current rules are but I personally felt the rules of rotation were superior in the 2006-2007 season. A high number of triple-triples that year and the judges applied the rules fairly with Kim receiving the highest for her TF-TT combination. I do agree with the lutz/flip changes they made the next year though.