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Kostner returning to Oberstdorf

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Tarasirius, Jul 8, 2010.

  1. tangerine_dream

    tangerine_dream New Member

    An elite level figure skater who flat out refuses to do full run throughs IS lazy. Not just lazy, but ineffective at practicing in a way that would yield better results. Let's say you don't think I can call Carolina lazy because she practices 100 jumps a day...well, that just means she likes jumping, but doesn't like doing run-throughs. Someone who is lazy isn't necessarily someone who puts forth no effort, but rather someone who doesn't put forth any effort beyond what they "feel like" doing.

    I'm not saying she would definitely place better if she did do full run throughs, but I am saying that if she refuses to do full run throughs then she is jeopardizing the chance of placing better that she could have.

    There's honestly no reason other than nursing an injury or illness that would warrant an elite skater (and even non-elite skaters, to be perfectly honest) *not* to do full run throughs of programs.
    alilou and (deleted member) like this.
  2. tangerine_dream

    tangerine_dream New Member

    The mouths of people who were working with her at the time. I'm not going to name a specific one, but I'm more confident about this source than I was about my Sasha doing pairs rumor, and even that seems to be true:dog:

    I keep forgetting this forum doesn't consolidate 2 replies into one post unless I do it manually. Apologies for double posting again.
  3. Marco

    Marco Well-Known Member

    Her problem has been 3-fold:

    1. the speed she maintains, while impressive, makes it difficult for her to control her jumps and this worsened when she got older and taller/ fuller

    2. she doesn't have the stamina, consistency and muscle memory like other skaters who do full run-throughs

    3. she is a headcase except at the occasional Euros where she has very little competition. The fact that she also telegraphs allows plenty of negative thoughts to creep in while she glides forward/ backward on two feet.

    Carroll got her to pace herself and slow down a little which was good, but her confidence must have been seriously shot from the previous season for them to work right away. If Kostner had been more patient/ obedient with Carroll (and vice versa) she probably would have had a better second half to her Olympic season.

    I don't recall the last great triple I saw from her.
  4. IneZR

    IneZR New Member

    I am really glad that Caro is staying. Her skating is just gorgeous, she has the smoothest edges and the deepest knees out there - the way she gains speed from just couple of cross-overs is just :respec:. I could watch her do simple cross-overs all day long and still be :swoon:

    But back to the topic: her jumping technique is just fine, but she often rushes into her jump entrances and, IMHO, it's all due to the nerves. What she really needs right now is a good sports psychologist. I don't mind her staying with Huth as long as she feels comfortable training in Oberstdorf. After all, it's Huth who coached Carolina to World Silver and Bronze and two European titles: he can't be THAT bad, huh? :shuffle:
  5. IceJunkie

    IceJunkie Well-Known Member

    At the Olympics on NBC, didn't Bezic say that Carolina wouldn't do full run throughs?
  6. alhrayth

    alhrayth Well-Known Member

    she did work with one in the past, I remember having the very unpleasant experience of meeting him during Worlds in Torino. If it was that guy, I would very much prefer she didn't get back to him, he was just hyperexcited, rude, arrogant and annoying (and I was not the only one thinking this!), and I can't see what good could he do to anyone, actually, not only to Carolina's already complex situation.:duh:
  7. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

    Whatever the case may be, it sounds like Caro doesn't have a good track record in choosing her support team --- or having them chosen for her.
  8. Eislauffan

    Eislauffan Well-Known Member

    I saw Carolina Kostner just the day before yesterday in Oberstdorf. She said she hasn't made a final decision yet regarding her coaching situation and training location. She attended the Ice Dome summer camp in Oberstdorf and now will attend Alexei Urmanov's summer camp in Aosta.
  9. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

    She seems to be such a nice person.
    The problem with Frank Carol is that she tried to relearn her jumping technique. But in an Olympic season, it's very difficult to fix your technique in 5 months !
    I think she needed time with Frank and Christa. But I hope she will find something new with her former coach.
    Good luck !
  10. ballettmaus

    ballettmaus Well-Known Member

    Maybe it would be best if she sat out a season in order to get her coaching issue settled. She seems like someone who needs some steady foundation and I'm afraid if she's not entirely settled for the season her results will suffer.

    What Huth said in the article sounded sort of degrading. Frank Caroll cannot be such a bad coach, he produced a 4 time World Whampion (I think) and an Olympic Gold medalist. Recently. I don't know about his past.
    I don't want to judge Carolina but there's always two to make a partnership work, so I guess they both were on different pages. As someone who has been there though, I can say that not always do you understand immediately that what the coach is saying is best for you. For some people it's hard to accept different training methods after they have been training for so long under one coach and method - even if that stalled your development at some point. Maybe that happened to Carolina.
    I hope she can sort through that problem though because she's such a sweet girl and I would love if she could skate to her full potential at a World and/or European Championship because she's great if she skates clean.
  11. shine

    shine Well-Known Member

    I really do not agree with comments like she should become a speed skater. Speed is not the only great thing about her skating and some posters don't seem to be able to appreciate the gorgeous and effortless way she is able to attain that speed. It's defininely not the same kind of skating as speed skating :rolleyes: She also does some of the most complex and easy looking footwork out there. It takes years of practicing with your basics. But I guess when your primary focus on skating is, say, how much extension a skater can achieve during a spiral you probably will never appreciate her skating :p
  12. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

    I guess it's a joke ;)
    At least, she has the speed ! And even with falls and popped jumps, she is always interesting to watch, because of this speed. I never have the feeling that her skating is painful !
  13. AxelAnnie

    AxelAnnie Well-Known Member

    Admittedly I am no expert.....but it seems to me that her ginormous speed throws her off. She has a lot of territory to get moved and organized (those gorgeous limbs) before she can jump. It takes a fraction of a second longer for a tall person to bring it all in. I would love to see her slow down a bit, get her jumps more consistent, then add speed. I suspect the speed has served her (like Caroline Z., mule kick) to hoist her into the air, but I suspect it may not be serving her with the jumps.
  14. aymkjb88

    aymkjb88 New Member

    Glad Caro will continue! Too bad her collaboration with Frank didn't work out. Is there any news on Tomas? Where is he now? Will he return to Oberstdorf too?
  15. viennese

    viennese Well-Known Member

    I hope she stays on and works on technique and nerves. She did appear to improve this season, despite the Olympic result.
  16. barbk

    barbk Well-Known Member

    Has she grown much (physically) in the past six years?
  17. Dilng

    Dilng Well-Known Member

    :lol::lol: I agree!
  18. peibeck

    peibeck Simply looking

    I'm not a Kostner fan, but I am glad she's staying. But I agree with Ziggy, I am not happy to see her return to Huth. He doesn't seem capable of keeping Kostner or Verner's nerves at bay.
  19. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa discriminating and persnickety ballet aficionado

    TAT has pointed out that her speed is one of the problems with her jumps--she does not slow down for the preparation and rushes it, losing control.

    And watching her implode live during the 2009 Worlds was painful.
  20. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

    I also have a source that I trust and respect and according to it, Kostner and Carroll simply were not a good match.

    I'll try finding out more. If it's true that she has work ethic issues, those would be apparent under Huth as well (or does he not require his skaters to do full-runthroughs: looking at their competetive form, it wouldn't be that surprising ;) :D).

    Yes, that's what the Polish commentator says as well.
  21. loulou

    loulou Let It Snow

    And I think she worked with an actual sport psychologist the whole past season, from the very beginning of it.

    He was interviewed more than once. I don't recall exact sources. But I remember people made comments about the money he was taking. He said he wasn't paid that much on basic contract, but he would get consistent bonuses if the girl would do well in competition.
    Of course, in the end, everything goes down to whatever he/people consider "not that much" and "cosistent".

    Thank you! - That was a funny line.

    I think she did.
    I saw the first noticeble change following the 2006 olympic season, and a second one about two years later. I haven't checked back though, that's just what I remember from my impressions.
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2010
  22. orbitz

    orbitz Well-Known Member

    But hasn't she been approaching the jumps the same way since she began doing them? Why would the speed suddenly give her issues ?
  23. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa discriminating and persnickety ballet aficionado

    Sometimes she is able to keep control over the jump but sometimes she is not. Her chances go down as her speed increases. Her approach was problematic from the beginning.
  24. Sparks

    Sparks Well-Known Member

    My problems with Kostner's skating go way beyond her spirals.
  25. Wiery

    Wiery Well-Known Member

    I'm glad she's staying in, but hate that she's returning to Huth...
    PeterG and (deleted member) like this.
  26. ioana

    ioana Well-Known Member

    Like IceAlisa already mentioned, she always seemed to have issues with her jump entrances. When she first started competing as a senior, people talked about her great speed and potential and any mistakes were put down to 'gaining experience.' She seemed to get better for the first few years she competed, so the speed on jump entrances was never brought up. Until she started unraveling and popping jumps left and right.

    I do think theoretically she should be able to do the jumps at her normal speed (that is, twice as fast as woman skates into a jump), but it makes sense that the faster you go, the less time you have to adjust a problematic take off. I only do singles and one double jump on my good days, but most jump take offs have a certain rhythm. For example, you hold the edge before the three turn for a certain count and the edge after the turn for another count. The faster you skate, the more chances you have to start pre-rotating or getting out of alignment before you even jump. Once you add in nerves to that mix, you could see why she has issues with her jumps once she gets tight.
    softlip and (deleted member) like this.
  27. pinky166

    pinky166 #teamtrainwreck #teamdiva

    Why is she going back to Papa Huth? She skated so well at Worlds! I thought she and Fassi were a good team! Most of Huth's skaters are very inconsistent.
  28. aaron

    aaron New Member

    Agree. ...Oh, Thomas:(
  29. Dr.Siouxs

    Dr.Siouxs Well-Known Member

    Ban Huth :mitchell:
    Sparks and (deleted member) like this.
  30. Fallcolor

    Fallcolor Member

    I think she and Fassi would have been a good match. Worlds 2010 LP was the first time in a LONG time i've seen that killer drive from her! She fought so hard for everything.