Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Iceman, Feb 7, 2011.
That bed would probably almost fill up Johnny's bedroom.
It would probably fill his entire apartment.
I think FSU fans have figured it out:
Robin Wagner is going to train Johnny! Oh the threads we'll have between now and Sochi!
Are you joking? I thought Wagner coached out of Hackensack, NJ. Seems silly to move to Manhattan if you're training across the Hudson. Maybe she's at Chelsea Piers as well?
Maybe Tara can coach him. She's a coach.
Also unfortunately, he's not tall enough to do actual modeling gigs aside from being hired for his name. I mean, if the women are typically 5'9", Johnny isn't going to get away without being at least 6'.
Thoughtful! and very mature.
Unless you are actually in Johnny's inner circle, there is no way that you can know if he is being true to himself, because in order to know that, you would have to know him, not know of him, not met him a couple of times in a fan setting but actually be a close friend.
Yep, 3-time National Champ, World Bronze Medalist, 2-time Olympian (placed second in the sp at 2006 Olympics) -- Nothing to sneer at, and many skaters would give anything for the chance just to go to the Olympics.
mmscfdcsu --Johnny's talent does make many fans feel he should have/ could have accomplished more, but that's life. And for Johnny, I think, and for his many fans, there's no reason to feel sad about what he accomplished, or didn't accomplish. He made mistakes, yes, (which he admits), but who doesn't? In any case, Johnny owns his mistakes and his successes... and he's moving forward with his life ... having fun and making and spending money. "Wow, how dare he -- why isn't he off in a corner feeling sad about his lack of accomplishments." Ah, well... what one person considers a mediocrity, might just be another's blessing and saving grace.
And, anyhoo, mmscfdcsu, how would you know whether or not Johnny is developing as an artist? Are you not developing as an artist?
Hmmmm ... okay. You shure know a lot about it. Or, I guess maybe your emotionless rationalizations say more about your view of the world than anything about Johnny Weir. Quite interesting the chatter here, and the over-the-top concern. I like Johnny a great deal, but I would be foolish to think I know him all that well, or that anything I think or say about him matters that much. I love his skating, and what I do know of him and about him from others who have met him on more than one occasion, makes me feel he is actually a real human being, a young person still evolving on his journey through life -- a very gifted human being who may not have it all together or all figured out, but he has a good idea of himself, who he is, what he likes and doesn't like, and above all, he isn't afraid to LIVE OUT LOUD. That attracts enormous interest and jealousy and concern (feigned or otherwise), because how dare he be so nonconformist and actually do and say what he feels like doing and saying. And, ya know what, everybody's got to have a gig -- that's just how our monetary-based society is set up. You work for a living, I suppose, unless you are independently wealthy. Would that it were a different world, and we could all just create beauty, imagine and make happen cool useful technology without the weight of money, the heavy cost weighing us down so the profiteers and power brokers can stay in control of the global universe. Would that we could live in peace, live and let live.
Money is an issue, isn't it. Go to www.zeitgeist.com – a very profound take about money, its lack of true value, but its weighty importance in our society – very educational films there if you have an open mind – click on the center film first.
On the issue of Johnny's supporters "annoying in their 'Poor victim Johnny!' mode," I see more of the people so concerned for Johnny and hating what they think he's become doing all the actual b**chin'/ bewailing about his so-called "victimhood." To say the judges shafted him at Olympics by keeping him in 6th place, does not make Johnny a victim. Why? Because he gave it his all -- he did the best he could do in that moment, in that time and place. Watch his Olympic performances, and his final reaction on his knees on the ice. Watch his Heartbroken exhibition, and if you don't feel anything, or can't see that this boy/ man/ diva/ skater/ athlete/ artist put his heart and soul into his skating, then truly that is the sad thing.
As far as his history of "bewailing" (Is that the word that always comes to mind when you think of Johnny?) -- yeah he has talked about growing up with modest means, but also that he didn't want for anything, and that his parents did everything in their power to nurture and support his gifts as an equestrian and a figure skater. Wow, not everyone is that lucky in life. Johnny admits his shortcomings, his blessings, his rebellions, his desires, and he probably, believe it or not, holds some things back from public scrutiny. This brouhaha about money, puhleeze... do give us links to all his bewailing. I seem to recall him talking in an interview about his limited income when COI folded (that tour was a lucrative source of income for skaters during the off-season). Also, it was Johnny's fans who decided to contribute money to a fund to help with his training. It matters not what anyone thinks or chooses to interpret about that. Those donations were gifts of unconditional love, thanks, and encouragement.
All that "whining and complaining," it's a wonder he has anytime left to go shopping. Oh, well... I think "how poorly he has been supported by other people financially," are not Johnny's words, but are entirely your own words, your own view, perhaps your own reality. Things "quieting down" on this apt issue, maybe ... until the next delectable, enticeable, irresistible, issue arises to focus on with disgust or delight, or both.
LOL, re Johnny's discussion with Howard Stern on "penis length." Truly this falls into the category of TMI. But, ha ha, Johnny was responding to Howard Stern after all. Kinda brave, or lunatic (take your pick) to go on that show. But if you agree with those who think Johnny is "marketing himself to the very bottom of the gene pool" ... then you probably didn't bother listening to the broadcast, but just happened to find out on FSU that he dared to discuss that body part. Your references to ..."dry humping" ... and "penis length"... seem like either a fixation, or a bewailing of Johnny having all the fun ...
I too have noticed that his public media persona is vastly different from the stories I've heard about his fans.
Maybe he's really that conniving. Maybe he's really that confused. Or maybe he's just complicated like most everybody else on this earth.
Granted, I still thought reading his book excerpt was a waste of 10 minutes of my life I'd like to get back, but I don't begrudge him the ability to make his own decisions.
Is Johnny perfect, a saint, a victim … no, not at all. I think he is just himself, and he apparently isn’t afraid of being himself, which seems hard for some people to grasp. Am I amazed at times, and kinda scratchin’ my head sometimes, yes, but I feel no need to criticize him. I’m more interested in being open-minded and seeing beyond the surface, and being inspired. In watching Johnny, and in taking part in his journey (which he has been courageous and kind enough to share) … I have learned something about myself and even more about the sport of figure skating.
All this “concern” and this chatter seems to me like “Johnny Sport” … a new sport for fans, non-fans, former fans, and those who used to like him or his skating but can’t stand what he’s become or who are sad about what he didn’t become, but just can’t get enough of watching, reading, opinionating, obsessing, snarking, gob-smacking, google-eyeing, envying, loving, hating this fabulous being named Johnny Weir. He’s such a hot topic. Here’s a recipe for this new sport … Haute Dogs with Tarragon Mustard ... got to have good eats when you
This blurb from the inside cover of Johnny’s book is so apropos:
“When you’re Johnny Weir, you don’t worry about what other people think. You let everyone else worry about that for you.” Sassy and sales promotional, yes … but it certainly seems to aptly characterize this thread.
BTW, my money is on Johnny having the last word on Johnny. It is a game alright, Willoway, whether we all realize the full extent of how much life is a game. Some of the keys to success are staying ahead of the game, mastering the game, or for that matter learning how to stay in the game without taking it or yourself too seriously.
I know exactly what you mean. With Johnny it's a stage persona more then anything else. I meant people that are just fake. All smiles on the outside, all venom on the inside. Perfect family units to the media, lousy cheaters in reality. Nicey nicey on the camera, nasty as soon as the cameras are turned off. That kind of stuff.
I read Johnny's book, and it seems to me that Johnny cares very much what people think of him. I could, of course, be very wrong about that.
On another note - maybe it's just me, but I find it rather funny that on the same night Johnny is tweeting about meeting Dita Von Teese, she's tweeting about meeting the US Surgeon General.
Was that quote inside the book from Johnny? I thought it was from someone else.
C'mon, Prancer. How often are YOU wrong?
And I doubt you are wrong about Johnny in this regard.
I believe it was. But no one said that he said it, just that it was apropos. Or not.
I think text on the inside flap of book covers are usually put together by editors or by promotions department of the publishing co., in collaboration with the editors -- usually taken from something said or written by the book author, or perhaps previously said or written about the book author. In this case, Johnny has said before that he doesn't worry about what people think, but the last sentence "You let everyone else worry about that for you," must have come from editors and/ or promotions staff. Yep, it seems to aptly characterize this thread.
Editors decide what goes on the flap. Who writes it varies. Usually, though, not the author. Ideally, there's a blurb (by someone at the publisher), an 'about the author', also generally written by someone else, and if they're really lucky, review blurbs by people with name recognition (ie, if you write fantasy and J.K. Rowling says something nice about it, you slap that on the cover in as prominent an area as you can.)
Yes, reese--I'm far more mature than anyone who actually believes a word of what PETA says.
And "bewail" is a word that comes to mind when attempting to describe someone complaining in an overdramatic way, aftershocks. Why, you have a problem with using correct vocabulary?
In case you're unfamiliar with it. I don't have any sort of special word list I use for particular people or on message boards. Believe it or not, some of us don't write any differently on here than we would anywhere else.
There are different kinds of modeling gigs ... and Johnny has already done some runway shows and editorial fashion spreads. I think the camera loves him, as do designers and photographers, apparently. Maybe there are some FSUers who know more about the modeling industry and can offer input, but I think its obviously true that most runway models (male and female) are quite tall. But there are those exceptional exceptions ... such as Kate Moss, and apparently Johnny too, where height is trumped by other physical qualities ... and perhaps something ethereal that they seem to project.
A puzzle and a mystery, that some seem to feel they have figured out. Perhaps this passage from Johnny's book offers a clue to at least some part of his personality:
"... I never changed my behavior because of what anyone else thought. Even as a seven-year-old boy, proudly showing off my new bike with streamers on the handlebars, I didn't let the other boys' taunts ruin my ride. 'That's for girls,' they all laughed. 'Well, I like it,' I said. Heckling only eggs me on, making me want to become more of whatever it is that people are mocking. So the next day I returned to the boys' hangout, riding my new bike, only this time I had braided the streamers to make them even prissier. So what if what I liked didn't match up with that of others? Life was whatever I wanted to make of it or make it into. ... I wasn't always right in my choices--maybe the streamers were a bit silly--but I needed to figure that out on my own terms."
I guess for me the reason I am puzzled is that for someone so hell bent on being his own person, he appears to be falling into and aspiring to be in the z-list celebrity hanger on crowd, which is completely made up of yes people who say whatever they need to to stay part of the in crowd. Individuallity is not valued by these people. This, for me, is why i see Johnny saying one thing but doing another...and that puzzles me.
So what if what I liked didn't match up with that of others? Life was whatever I wanted to make of it or make it into.
Maybe he means it's important to him to choose which groups, styles, ideas, etc., to affiliate himself with rather than being forced into a particular group because of who his parents or his neighbors are or what sex he is. Ultimately he'll end up part of a group and not completely unique, but at least he'll have chosen the group.
It's starting to sound like Johnny's book has sold very well. I guess that's how he afforded the condo.
Some would crumble and take the streamers off.
Some would not care, and keep the streamers on.
Johnny kept them on, admitted that the fact that the other hated the streamers made him keep them all the more, and then returned to their place to shove the fact that he didn't take them off down their throats.
Johnny will always be "Look at me! Look at me! Aren't I different! See how hard I try at being different! Aren't you shocked? Please tell me you're shocked!" It amazes me how many fall for this act.
I don't think it hit any bestseller lists? Besides, he wouldn't have realized any royalties from it yet. He will likely get his first royalty statement in September. Most publishers issue statements bi-anually and September statements are for sales in the January - June royalty period.
And then there's the matter of the advance earning out or not. He will not begin to receive royalties until the advance earns out.
Another long and thoughtful thread on JW, although maybe (?) some overanalyze his motivations and underestimate two things: 1. Desire to have fun. 2. Need to make a living.
Checking out Barnesand Noble, Amazon.com and other booksellers, he is currently in the 11,000-18,000 range in terms of overall rankings for a couple and in the 5,000-6,000 for another, however with no numbers attached. If I remember correctly, for one of the majors, he is #2 in terms of sports books.
"Boo hoo, I lost my dog." No, really, losing a pet is very very sad, and painful, and heartbreaking. "Bewailing" definitely seems suited to describe this kind of grief and lament.
But gosh, LOL, I've never heard of or seen Johnny actually bewailing about lack of money. Obviously, he spoke about it in the aftermath of the COI tour folding, and he has discussed the realities of money in connection with the sport of fs. Johnny has perhaps been more outspoken about it, but everyone in the very expensive sport of fs has to deal with the issue of money (as does everyone in the world, truthfully).
The closest situation that seems accurate in describing Johnny as bewailing about something is 2007 Nationals: "Boo hoo, I lost my National Championship title." (He was obviously experiencing a lot of pain, and probably not only in regard to losing the title). He cried a lot in the kiss 'n cry, but he got it all out and then he was very gracious and sportsmanlike backstage.
A clue to the puzzle: "I wasn't always right in my choices ... but I needed to figure that out on my own terms." Johnny is still in his 20s and he likely still has a lot of figuring out to do.
LOL, berthesghost. I agree with your first part, but I think Johnny kept the streamers on and braided them to make them "prissier," not because the other boys "hated" the streamers, but simply because they were taunting him about the streamers being for girls (i.e., taunting him for being different). Your last words seem more your own interpretation of why Johnny did this. My interpretation, following from how he describes it, is: "No, I'm not going to back down. No, I'm not afraid of your taunts and what you think about me." (and ya know, he maybe is actually quaking inside, but not going to show it). We all have our ways of dealing with the world. Whether anyone falls for it or not, doesn't matter in the long run.
It's on my wish list--do you recommend it? I am interested even if it's just skating gossip. Well, especially if it's skating gossip.
In Johnny-related news, here is a video of his appearance at the Richie Rich Villionaire fashion show (Johnny begins appearing around 0:45).
Photo from the runway
ETA: Another video with a brief interview with Johnny. Comparing walking the runway to skating in front of millions.
2011′S FACE OF FASHION WEEK: JOHNNY WEIR