Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by sk9tingfan, Dec 5, 2012.
Knowing John, I'd be surprised if they didn't skate at Worlds
Comparing this to Alissa's torn labrum. She was faltering months in advance of her surgery. John was rocking his programs as recently as CoR. Now, he seems to have bounced back quickly (on the stationary bike a day after). Is it possible that his injury was far less severe and thus, he will be ice-ready much sooner? IDK about these things
It is the operation itself that is the greatest determinant here. According to the Mayo Clinic, many receiving this operation can expect to return to their sport within 4 to 6 months. Even if John can do that, they would not have adequate time to prepare for competition. imo
Wishing John a speedy recovery! Personally I don't expect to see him again this season - JMO.
Sorry to hear of this additional injury news this season, but glad for John he's had his injury taken care of and is maintaining his positive forward-looking view of things, which surely helps with healing.
Best of luck to John for a full and safe recovery, and I look forward to seeing him and Caydee back on the ice when he's fully healed!
You read that where? Czisny had it in July and was not ready to compete at GP at the end of November. Hip surgery is much more complicated than knee surgery and the healing time is much longer. (I had labral tear repaired in July too.) Maybe if he was a dancer but as a pair skater? Doubtful.
Knowing exactly what about John? No amount of will, determination, dedication or discipline can speed required healing time. I'm reminded of the expression that nine women one month pregnant do not a baby make - some things cannot be rushed.
I'm wondering if it is healthy to go in competing at that level after such an injury. Isn't that what abruptly ended both Lipinski's and Yagudin's competitive careers?
No, they won't. This surgery takes a min. of 4-6 months recovery, which does NOT include the season's worth of endurance it takes to build up a program. Perspective - Czisny has been out from June - November and still isn't ready. You can be "recovered" from the surgery and be on the ice skating, but that doesn't mean your endurance is ready for World's.
No. Lipinski quit because she was bored of skating and wanted to be an actress. She had the surgery right at the end of her amateur career/begining of her professional career, which gives a false impression that this is why she quit amateur skating. Tara continued for four more years as a professional doing triple jumps. The hip is not why she quit.
You may be right about why she left skating, but IIRC, she had hip surgery after several pro seasons - in 2001 or 2002.
Tara retired from eligible skating in 1998 at the age of 15. She did not get hip surgery until she was 18. She was in pain and misdiagnosed for 3 or 4 years before finally getting the surgery. She did retire from eligible skating largely because her hip could not take it anymore. In her pro programs, IIRC, she mainly only did 3T and 3S, because that was all her hip could handle.
^^ Yes, thanks for this chronology (did you check it somewhere). I don't remember the exact order of events myself. I do recall in recent years reports that Tara used to over-practice her jumps at the rink, which likely added to the stress her hip came under. I wonder did she get a full hip replacement or just repair? Kinda scary at such a young age if it was hip replacement. IF so, I wonder whether it lasts forever or if more surgery is needed later on in life.
It's really inspiring to see all the stuff athletes with missing limbs are enabled to do these days with the new technologies. I wonder why the skate boot can't be revolutionized in a better way to cushion more of the impact that skaters bodies now suffer.
http://www.ehow.com/facts_5907131_recovery-time-hip-labrum-surgery_.html It says pain free in 2-6 months. That is quite a wide range, which means every individual case is probably quite different depending on several factors. I would think being a very young, strong athlete receiving top-notch care from people who typical work with athletes would help tremendously. It's not like he's a sedentary 50 year old. But we also don't know the severity of the situation. If John is fully recovered by early February, he would have about a month to prepare for Worlds. Not a lot of time at all, but maybe not impossible. How quickly he can get his stamina/strength back would depend in part on how much conditioning he can do as he is recovering. If he's non-weight-bearing for a while and is very limited in the amount of cardio he can do, he'd be much weaker and more out of shape when he returns. But if he's permitted to do quite a bit of off-ice work early on, who knows.
The press release didn't give any timetable for return, so it doesn't seem so promising. Perhaps it's still up in the air. Still, in the event that he is ready to compete in time, hopefully USFS would allow D/C to be monitored for Worlds. I still don't think Czisny's situation is necessarily indicative of what will happen for John. She has enough jumping issues with healthy hips, so getting ready for competition after a long layoff might present a lot of added challenges. I wonder if it was possible that she was capable of competing in her GP, but just didn't want to be there if she didn't feel she could skate her best.
I wish John a speedy, healthy recovery. I would hope, though, that they would not compete until he is 100% sure he can keep Caydee safe. I mean, with singles, it's just your risk but with pairs, you do have a partner to think about. I am, however, sure that John will be thinking of Caydee's safety especially during lifts and they will skate again when he is healed. Wishing them both the best.
Wow this is stunning news. Good recovery to him, and may he only return if and when he is ready...
Earlier today John Coughlin tweeted this photo of himself on a stationary bike.
Maybe "stationary bike rehabber" can join "almost girl" in the lexicon.
I dunno, it took me a good 8 months after knee surgery to start some sort of physical activity that wasn't PT. Granted, I'd managed to tear my ACL, partially (but almost all the way) tear my MCL and a nice meniscus tear to top it all off. I'd say how long you're out also depends on the severity of the injury.
Also, it's possible certain jumps put more stress on your hip labrum than others, i.e. loops are a lot of hip action, but something like a 2axel is easier on the hips.
It may say pain free in 2-6 months, but it did not say in top shape ready to compete at elite level of sport where you are actually moving on a slippery surface carrying another person above your head! I had it in July and still struggle with something as simple as sit spin. While it doesn't hurt, it feels so stiff that it feels like if I was 80. He will have to work through this. On elite level that will put him in huge disadvantage.
When I wrote that knee surgery is easier than hip surgery, I was comparing the same types of injury. Labral tear means torn cartilage in hip, so comparable to that in knee would be torn meniscus. Three weeks after meniscus operation I was back on the ice and a few more weeks later it was like if I didn't have any surgery at all. Knee surgery is less invasive. It took me about 10 weeks to go back on the ice after the hip surgery (labral tear) and even a few months later I am still not where I was before the surgery. Labral tear surgery takes much longer, and they have to pull the hip out of the socket, so there is a chance of some more damage caused. The healing takes longer.
Your case, Ioana, would be different, because you not only torn cartilage, you also torn two ligaments. In fact, I seem to remember that your injury is quite common with gymnasts, they have those three together and it is usually career ending. Shawn Johnson had it; it ended her comeback. She wrote that the doctors call it 'terrible triad'. This combination of knee injuries would of course be much worse than torn cartilage in hip.
Ah, that makes now;thank you for clarifying. And, yes, comparable hip surgeries tend to have longer recovery times. Hopefully, yours will eventually get better and allow you to get back to your previous level. Same for John Coughlin, although I hope he does take his time and doesn't push too hard. No matter how tempting Worlds look, it's not worth risking an Olympic season.
Tara said that the surgery "saved her" and that the hip was a "huge misconception" about why she quit skating. She also claimed that she knew she was "done" as soon as winning the medal and turning pro allowed her parents to be together again. So, the hip is not why she turned pro OR quit pro skating, unless she's lying about it.
I don't know why people don't listen when people who have had the surgery say that it is an extremely long and hard recovery, regardless what care you have, how elite of an athlete you are, how "bad" the tear was, etc. None of these things can speed up how fast your body heals, nor can it speed up building a season's worth of endurance. Two half-inch holes are made for the instrument and the camera. An instrument is probed deep into your hip, your bone is literally shaved off and your body has to have time to recuperate. It's not something you just bounce back from.
John being on a stationary bike is not that big of a deal. A stationary bike is not weight-bearing. Standing after the surgery is where you really have problems, in fact you are on crutches for at least 2 weeks to prevent any weight-bearing on the hip. Even up to 4 weeks it is very hard to stand or even skate easy stroking. Imagine the weight bearing while he is carrying another skater. I would be concerned for Caydee's safety.
This surgery will knock you out for an entire season. With a very high number of skaters having this surgery, how many have you heard of competing at nationals two months later? I feel bad for him but it is what it is.
My SIL is a professional triathlete and had this surgery over the summer. It was 3 months before she was allowed to run again although she was allowed to swim and bike much earlier.
Leafy is correct. It is the weight-bearing that is the issue. It takes good while to even get mobile.
I think Denney and Coughlin are done for the season.
I would agree that they are done for the season, I think the question should be: will they be ready for next season on time? I would imagine in an O year that one starts on programs earlier than in other years, like May perhaps? That's really not too far off, just near six months...
John Coughlin's new blog post about his injury: http://www.teamusa.org/Team-USA-Winter-Bloggers/John-Coughlin/One-Bite-At-A-Time-Part-II.aspx
Wow, arrogant. You're not the only guy in the world to face adversity, dude.
I thought his blog was well-written and offered his personal insights into how he is dealing with this latest injury setback. People will read into it whatever they want, I guess (just stating the obvious here).
I was slightly confused about the way he kept addressing doubters, then supporters, while also stating future goals, but in the end he came across as very honest and determined.
While this is unfortunate, look at the bright side. This is not the Olympic year.
I was too...
I felt like he wanted folks to "doubt" him so he can "prove them wrong" Didn't really matter IMHO.