Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by TAHbKA, Oct 16, 2012.
Exactly. That's why Plushenko bombed big time in 2010.
And at 2012 Euros.
Skating moves along in advances and plateaus about one thing or another if you observe it long enough (I've been a skating fan for over 5 decades). We have just been through the addition of the quad as well as CoP recently - both advances (well, that's a matter of opinion but let's say they are). Both are firmly grounded in athleticism (no matter what the intention of CoP is) and that's a killer of a challenge for skaters even a few years older than their prime skating years.
If the advance had been in expressiveness or musicality then the maturing skater might even have an advantage but this is sheer athleticism and that doesn't mitigate for the maturing skater. I agree that if a skater didn't have an element as demanding as a quad jump (any one of them) at his peak, achieving it with any consistency several years later in one's eligible career is very unlikely. It's not a matter of will or hard work, but may be what the body's limits are at any given point.
And Plushy developed a quad quite a long time ago (in competitive years which is sorta like dog years); he's not trying to develop at a new level of athleticism now. He is also the exception to almost every rule!
I think it was interesting that Weir said that his body wasn't used to falling, which, if a skater is trying to re-master a jump that wasn't consistent to begin with, would be frequently.
How do you know what you know, overedge, or think you know?
As far as Carolla saying "sorry," obviously she did not specifically say what she's "sorry" about. She prefaced "Sorry," and then rushed right into voicing her critical and negative views of Johnny, so I doubt she's really apologizing for her views, apologizing for stating them, or just apologizing to the air, and she's certainly not apologizing to Johnny for what she thinks about him. If she were actually "sorry," she might have thought about keeping her views to herself, or maybe phrasing them in a less negative way. But alas, that's apparently not what most of us come here to do.
No, everything everyone believes they "know about him is apparently right." Even, if I do say so myself, 9 times out of 10, I may just be right, or wrong. At the least, I admire Johnny so I tend to look more at the positives I associate with him, not the negatives. In the long drawn out scheme of the universe, who cares really? Certainly not Mr. Johnny Weir-Voronov. He doesn't need to stoop low enough to care what fans who really don't care about him have to say, or even what fans who do care about him have to say especially in this here "train wreck."
Well, just like your saying "sorry," your "hoping" IMO also lacks credibility. Even if you were being genuine, in heavens name, why would you "hope" or think he needs to get back to what you personally "enjoyed"??? We all have our skater preferences and likes and dislikes and desires, but the way you are personalizing it with such nose-in-the-air pretentiousness, IMO, smacks of Republican self-righteousness.
Skaters don't need or have to "get back" to what any one of us "enjoyed." And unfortunately, neither will CoP ever "get back" to 6.0. IMO, it's difficult enough and more than enough for skaters to work hard on achieving their own goals and desires and attempting to live up to their own expectations.
More of same. You don't sound like you really really care all that much, Carolla. Were you truly a Johnny Weir fan back in the day, or just someone waiting around to see "a train wreck" in the making?
Honestly, Carolla, you've got that backwards. Innit more like you're the one "trashing" the skater whose skating you characterize as "like a train wreck." Funny thing tho' unlike you I doubt Johnny would require "a fireproof suit" to shrug away and dismiss the utter disdain and random piling on toward him that apparently will continue in one way or another here ad infinitum, and at every possible opportunity. Of course, neither Johnny nor his skating, nor watching his skating has anything to do with a "train wreck" but usually all the threads about him on FSU tend to turn into one.
True, and definitely hard on an older skater's body. BTW, Johnny specifically said: "... I had a very rapid weight loss to get prepared, and my body hasn't completely learned again what it's like to fall."
Weir is no Plushenko. Also skating regressed after 2006 and made it easier for Plush to be competitive since his strength has always been his jumps. Not only that now you need to do quads to even have a chance to win and Johnny and Evan are trying to learn quads after taking a couple years off at an advanced age for skaters.
I think the type of competitors we have at a given time is important. For example during legendary Michelle Kwan years, to beat her, one need to do more than what she could do. Just like to beat Yuna in 2010, the competitors will need to match her in every element. In short, we look at the top few and say.... what does it take to beat them in order to overtake them. Now if Weir or Evan want to podium, they must have quads since the top few now have quads ..... Chan, Hanyu, Dai, Kozuka, Fernandez, Machida .. and they are really the ones you must beat.
I am sure we will know in due course whether Weir will return to competition. He doesn't have much time left to start competing after a couple of years off training. Yuna is returning this year, and so must all those who want to return and compete in Sochi. Good luck to Weir and all these skaters. Though I am very curious as to which come back skater will prevail to Sochi. It is not an easy route..... IMO.
DEMOCRATS FOR JOHNNY WEIR!!!
I am not sure if Johnny really is injured or if he just panicked and started to feel so unsure of himself that he had to withdraw. I read that during the practices he just stood in front of his coach for 10 minutes repeating that "He can't". I think he is very sensitive and coming back to competing again is very hard for him. He needs to find a positive attitude towards competing otherwise his come back is not going to last very long.
I can completely believe that poor Johnny is indeed injured. He's had MANY injuries over the years, and a dicey ACL is NOT something you want to mess with, because it can be career-ending if you rupture that. Better to be cautious about it.
I'm actually a fan of Johnny and his skating, but his SP is just . Seriously, Johnny? You come back to competitive skating after many years and we get (surprise!) another Lady Gaga homage? I like Lady Gaga as much as the next person, but Johnny's obession with her has reduced him to a one-note gimmick.
The "I'm too sexy for myself" choreography/posing, and yet another borderline dominatrix costume (what is with him and those things?)...argh. No subtlety whatsoever in that entire program. To compare this program with "The Swan" from 2006 is just painful.
I think he's a great person, and a brilliant skater/talent once upon a time, but this was an official jump the shark moment for me.
He definitely should've stayed in show skating.
I don't think there is nothing wrong with bringing some fresh air to figure skating programs. Most of them are pretty boring anyways but Johnny's SP really wakens up the audience. They love it. Some of them have arrived just to see the Gaga number. It's good for this sport.
From what I've been told by people who were at the arena, the reason Johnny was saying "I can't" is because he was in so much pain, he knew he would be unable to skate.
Johnny withdrew from TEB. His name is now crossed in the TEB roster.
I wouldn't call Lady Gaga fresh. Trendy for 5 minutes, but now stale and tired IMO.
from the replies,I seem to know why figure skating is dying in most of the country.the federation and fans just see it as a sports or circus,they want to attract people's attention,but made a totolly wrong way.
if one come to see a competition only for Gaga,will he come again？NO！unless next time you use PSY's GANGNAM STYLE.
why figure skating's new world is in asia?here,watching a figure skating is a high-end entertainment,like ballet or classical music concert,people like to go there even if the don't know what they'll see,so the shows can get many BIG sponsers,and TV will by the broadcast.then ISU and skaters will get more money.more people will come to see the competition and shows——this is beneficial cycle
I think totally opposite way. First of all Lady Gaga is fresh compared to the old war horses. Secondly, isn't it good that people COME to see figure skating, what ever the reason is? If they come once, they might come twice. They might see other interesting competitors and generally just start to like the sport. I think one of the reasons why figure skating is dying is that people think it's so old school: same old classical pieces, there is not much modern in this sport. It tells a lot if one figure skater out of hundred chooses a pop song and some people think it's terrible and ruining the sport? You can see that most of the spectators in the competitions in US and Canada were very old. In contrary, you'll see a lot of young audience in Europe. The audience is diverse and not everybody comes to see classical and traditional figure skating. Figure skating needs to younger it's image if we want more audience and young people to come to see it.
I fear that will pretty much be it for him then.
If he's hurt his ACL then he was really going to struggle to perform at TEB
Since he hasn't achieved the minimum score for worlds yet for either SP or LP (has he obtained the score for 4CCs?), then he'll need to get another international assignment if his goal at nationals is getting on the world team.
Apparently his ACL injury is located in his right hip.
I think Johnny needs a lesson on the names of the muscles in the body, which muscle would cause pain to radiate from knee up to hip?
IT band. I still have to stretch mine out almost daily because it got really screwy after I tore my ACL. It's possible you start overcompensating to protect your knee (even without wanting to) and that can at first feel like your hips are the ones that hurt.
Cannot believe I am defending Johnny here....
Well, we know IN never gets its info wrong.
I think we can wait for further details from Camp JW because as far as I could see Johnny referenced both his right hip and his ACL. Since injuries to these body areas (hip and knee) aren't typically related and since an ACL injury is very specific in terms of the pain one feels, perhaps it's best to wait for further clarification.
Here is a new article on Johnny. Reads:-
Thank you for paraphrasing the title of this thread.
I have been wondering about this.... Everyone on here keeps posting ACL, but Weir talks hip to NBC. Of course he also talks about ACL in an earlier quote.
Considering he had supposedly seen a doctor I assume he knows what is hurt.
If you listen to the two YouTube videos of him discussing his injury, he mentions."ACL" in both of them.
If you listen to the NBC video he mentions hip. Take your pick...
I posted this on the CoR thread but I'll post here too. I checked with IN. They reported the info about the injury that they got from USFSA (and I believe they were specific about that in the article) which was that it was a hip injury. So at the time that was the USFSA's understanding. What it turns out to be, anyone's guess... IN simply reported what USFSA said about it, that's all.