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Interview with Johny Weir `I can't do a comeback like Pluschenko'

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by TAHbKA, Oct 16, 2012.

  1. Jenny

    Jenny From the Bloc

    So either he doesn't actually know the rules, or he does but he's pretending not to so he can blame them when he does badly?

    Any national or Olympic level athlete should know the rules of their sport inside out and backwards, particularly when they present a road map for winning.

    And if they don't like those rules, then they either need to do something productive to change them (by offering tangible alternatives, getting on the review committees, submitting proposals etc), or stop competing within that sport.

    To use either ignorance or act like you are above the rules is just making excuses, rather than taking responsibility for your own performance.


    I think the reason he's come back to competition is because he's run out of other options.
  2. overedge

    overedge Janny uber

    If you bothered to read what triple_toe said before throwing a hissy fit, the "tedious" comment was referring to Johnny's public statements, not to his skating.
  3. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

    Right, right Jenny, all of the above! Johnny should even at the very least try to become a judge himself. Maybe then he'll have fewer idiot excuses. He could even give himself better marks! Yah! Hmmm, well, oh yeah, I forgot, he can't be in two places at one time. Totally against the rules.

    :rofl: :rofl: :lol: :lol: How pre$cient you are Jenny! :wideeyes: You saw right through that lax Johnny's lame-a$$ excu$e about being bored $itting on the couch at home for two year$ fielding celebrity offer$ while eating chicken finger$ and drinking Chabli$.

    D**n right! But at least we have Evan Ly$acheck to rely on (hopefully). He's a CoP geniu$, not to mention a $talwart, “inside out and backwards,” forwards and upside down competitive OGM-winning athlete with brain$ and brawn, and (finger$-cro$$ed) reliable QUAD$.
  4. Proustable

    Proustable New Member

    I'm disappointed that Weir doesn't care about knowing the rules, but I'm more impressed that he came back. He put his money where his mouth is, which is more than we can say for some.
    PeterG and (deleted member) like this.
  5. PinkFeathers

    PinkFeathers Active Member

    I am OK with being accused of being an uber :lol: I'm also an uber fan of some of Johnny's competitors, and everyone who isn't the skaters I hate :lynch:
  6. antmanb

    antmanb Well-Known Member

    To be fair, you come across as a fan and have a lot of worthwhile things to say. Other people, however, ....
  7. arakwafan2006

    arakwafan2006 Well-Known Member

    What an ignorant thing to say as a professional in your sport. If this were me and the case, I wouldnt say it. Dont tell me he's a role model when he says stuff like this. Why SHOULD anyone take him seriously? He doesnt. :cold:
  8. Jenny

    Jenny From the Bloc

    aftershocks, you might want to check in with your IT people as your "s" key seems to have been replaced with your dollar sign key. Or maybe it was subtle message of some sort? I can't seem to find it among your attempts at sarcasm (or is this the Johnnyspeak people are referring to - that nothing he says should be taken seriously?), and who is this Evan you keep talking about? Is he Johnny's new CoP coach?
    Badams and (deleted member) like this.
  9. Wiery

    Wiery Well-Known Member

    I just took that statement to mean that Johnny didn't want to talk about COP rules, not that he actually doesn't know them. I mean, the guy speaks fluent Russian and French; he's no dummy; playing dumb when convenient perhaps...
  10. Jenny

    Jenny From the Bloc

    In what scenario is playing dumb convenient?
  11. Willowway

    Willowway Well-Known Member

    Total ridiculousness, saying you don't know the rules of the game you're playing.

    If you're skating just to express yourself, appeal to fans or get more attention, skate in shows. If you're there to compete then compete. That has nothing to do with being Pluschenko or doing it P's way; it has to do with engaging what is actual - competitive rules in a competitive environment.

    Speaking of Pluschenko...I'm not the biggest Plushy fan (in terms of his skating style which I know is Mishin's doing) but he makes no excuses - he is committing absolutely and has more that JW in the way of possible excuses (knees, age, I grew up in a 6.0 system). EP has set out a very ambitious goal, the Sochi gold, and is trying to head toward it without excuses. That's a competitor. I don't always like his choreography but I really admire his guts.
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2012
  12. arakwafan2006

    arakwafan2006 Well-Known Member

    I just don't get how he wines about being oh so heartbroken about how things "shook out" in Vancouver and comes back to the sport while willfully ignoring the rules. The COP system has been in place for a long enough time to not complain about the old 6.0 system. If avid skating fans can understand the system I dont get why the competitor cant. I think its sorta trifling and irresponsible of him to even say that.

    Actually, if anyone should have the excuse of being brought up under an old system it might be that coach of his. Just saying
  13. gkelly

    gkelly Well-Known Member

    I certainly hope that is true.

    I expect that Weir will bring in some viewers who would be interested in Weir as a personality, or in his specific artistic vision, who would not otherwise be interested enough in a skating competition on its own terms to tune in without him. And USFS would benefit from encouraging him to compete for the sake of those viewers.

    Having him AT Nationals will probably drive up TV ratings for Nationals to some degree, which would be a win for both USFS and NBC.

    But I don't think they will go out of their way to put him on the world team or Olympic team. If he places at Nationals, he'll make the team, but I don't think they'll either instruct judges to inflate his score so that he's more likely to place, nor override the Nationals results to put the more famous guy on the team. Weir might be the one (or one of two or three) to put it all together at Nationals. Or other guys might put more together. Part of what makes the competition exciting is having multiple competitors who are capable of deserving medals and the coveted few spots at Worlds. Weir's presence would deepen the field, and so would Lysacek's if he competes. That's a good thing, along with name recognition and more viewers for that reason. But since it's a sport contest not a popularity contest, the most well-known competitors won't necessarily be the ones who earn the top spots.

    In many ways it's too bad that the US can only send a couple of skaters to the one competition that matters most each year, as if everyone who doesn't make the world or Olympic team is an also-ran at best. Popularity of the sport would benefit from having a whole circuit of top-level events worth following, not just one (Nationals) that's important primarily for determining who's worthy of advancing to the one (Worlds or Olympics) that "really" counts to the the viewing public.
  14. Seerek

    Seerek Well-Known Member

    This is where the quantity vs. quality debate comes into question.

    Would competing more times over the course of the season result in less "clean" performances overall?

    Should there be more Senior GP events, even if that means diluting the depth of competition somewhat?

    We would have to compare the Grand Prix series of other individual sports to see whether it's comparable..
  15. Eyre

    Eyre New Member

    Of course it's the best for a skater to understand what he/she could do to earn the maximum scores. But I don't think a skater needs to understand completely about the scoring system. The coaches need to. If Johnny follows Galina's instructions, and Galina understands the scoring system well which I believe she does, Johnny should be fine.

    The problem is the coach and the choreographer have to design a program that the skater could execute. To pack a full, difficult program is easy. To execute it is not. I'm afraid that Johnny couldn't do more complicated programs than what he's been doing. Johnny's 2006-07 LP "Child of Nazareth" by Marina Anissina was probably the most complicated but beautiful program of his. But Johnny felt it was out of his comfort zone and he never skated it well enough.
  16. sarakimm

    sarakimm Member

    Omg, everybody, take a Xanax. I believe he is totally correct when he says people don't understand the scoring. Maybe not the people here, but the general public. You know, the ones who USED to watch skating on TV and keep the ratings up. No they do not understand how Patrick Chan racks up the points so that he still gets giant scores even while falling however many times per competition. I have heard professional commentators within the last year say that a score was hard to believe or understand, "but that's the new system." Many outspoken skating celebrities have said that the skaters are so busy trying to figure out the points system they have forgotten how to skate beautifully. I have read such comments on these boards. So to jump on Johnny for this casual comment is absurd.
    judiz and (deleted member) like this.
  17. judiz

    judiz Well-Known Member

    Totally agree. My husband only watches skating during the Olympics. He couldn't understand how Daisuke got a medal when he fell on a jump and slid across the ice yet other skaters who stayed on their feet got lower scores. Maybe the commentators have to explain the CoP to the audience before the telecasts so they understand it's no longer who skates the best, it's who racks up the most points.
    PeterG and (deleted member) like this.
  18. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

    Of course Johnny's comment was nothing new (he's stated as much before), nor is it outlandish of him to feel that way. Also, since Johnny is a skater who competes with other skaters and is privy to hearing what other skaters might have to say about CoP, he would certainly know better than most fans what people in the skating community understand or don't understand about CoP. Even skaters who say they like CoP because it is easier to come from behind and they can gain helpful information from looking at the protocols, may not necessarily completely understand CoP, and therefore rely on their coaching team to help them ensure their programs are CoP-worthy.

    This is, however, FSU where Johnny Weir's any comment, performance, decision, costume, possible co-op purchase, modeling gig, or failure to include the proper jump in a program can become a lightning rod and set off lengthy, and often "tedious" thread discussions.

    I think the focus on the CoP comment reveals more about those who decry it (and who parody the detractors :shuffle:) than it does anything about Johnny himself. As usual.

    Actually, the interview contains far more interesting comments by Johnny than the throw-away CoP comment, IMHO.
  19. Eyre

    Eyre New Member

    ...But the comments for the rest of what Johnny said are yet to come...:shuffle:
  20. Sylvia

    Sylvia Prepping for club comp. season!

    PeterG and (deleted member) like this.
  21. Eyre

    Eyre New Member

  22. mossop

    mossop New Member

    COP has been in place for many years. Why does it take so long for Johnny Weir to understand that you either skate to win in competitions or just skate in shows where he can have all the freedom to be totally creative and do what he likes on ice. Maybe that's why he couldn't win. Did Evans complain inccessantly about COP?
  23. gkelly

    gkelly Well-Known Member

    I think it's a valid choice to compete skating to place as well as you can while remaining true to one's vision. But if your vision doesn't match that of the rule-makers and officials, or if other skaters are just better at accomplishing what the system rewards, then don't complain when you don't earn the points you didn't make an effort to earn.
    mag and (deleted member) like this.
  24. Susan M

    Susan M Well-Known Member

    I don't know what things are like elsewhere, but in North America, just "skating in shows" isn't really an option anymore. It's not like this is the 1990s where there would be pro competitions and shows somewhere nearly every weekend all thru the autumn months. I think Weir does do some shows in Japan during the summer, but come fall, there are only a handful of shows in the US and I doubt they pay that well. Even Stars On Ice has only 7 stops here this year.

    So, if he wants to continue skating (and having his skating pay for itself) he needs to compete.

    Still, I do agree with gkelly that if he opts to choreograph his programs for show rather than points, he really can't complain about his results. I guess it is still fair, though, for him to criticize the system itself, and point out things it over and under values. I mean, lots of folks have things to say about that.
  25. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

    Whether or not that's an accurate quote of Johnny accurately translating what Galina said, ITA, :rofl: -- A lot of what Johnny is quoted as saying is often funny and entertaining and often is meant to be. ;) Tone and context and what the original question is that he's responding to are often overlooked on the page. Whatever! Johnny's programs this season are not the best he's ever done, but they certainly are good efforts for him after taking off from eligible competition for two years.

    For more scintillating Johnny quotes: http://quotablejohnnyweir.blogspot.com/

    :) IMO, mossop and gkelly (and others in this thread), you are reading too much into what Johnny was quoted as saying about CoP, and also bringing your own previously conceived notions and opinions about Johnny from his former competitive days to bear on what he's been quoted as saying after his recent comeback debut. There have been several articles written based on the interviews that Johnny gave at Finlandia Trophy, and in none of them was CoP a major or exclusive focus of discussion. So, I truly don't see where you are getting that Johnny has been "incessantly" complaining about CoP since his comeback. Even during his competitive days, he did not "incessantly" complain about CoP, although anyone is obviously free to continue believing he did. To me it seems more that some posters in this thread are doing the "incessant" complaining re their OTT views of Johnny.

    In the history of fs and of sport in general, lots of athletes' visions haven't matched that of the "rule-makers and officials." All of the innovators and risk-takers who helped push forward their sport did not always blindly adhere to the rulebook or to the status quo, and often they paid the price. Some found a way to follow the rules while slyly thumbing their noses too. All hail to diversity and to subversiveness!

    Personally, I find these quotes more interesting:

    Johnny Weir:
    Erica Rand:
  26. Marco

    Marco Well-Known Member

    When was the last time Weir did a 3 jump combo?
  27. Nomad

    Nomad Celebrity cheese-monger

    Vancouver. 3Lz2T2T.
  28. overedge

    overedge Janny uber

    Maybe that's because neither poster that you referred to said that Johnny was "incessantly" complaining. Mossop asked if Evan was "incessantly" complaining, and gkelly didn't use the word "incessantly" at all.

    And maybe other posters are incessantly looking for excuses to argue that their view of Johnny is the only correct one.
  29. Eyre

    Eyre New Member

    Well, it might be a little like "preemptive strike" on some of the posters part. To me, it might turn out to be necessary to say those things up front:p. Given what Johnny has said after 2010 Olympics, he might again stir up a controversy after he loses, and some of his uber fans and many non-skating-fans will buy it.:D
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2012
  30. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

    ^^ :rofl: Yes, right, Eyre. Even the very thought of Johnny is certainly bound to "stir up a controversy ..." :p "preemptive strike" :duh: Maybe this thread belongs in Politically Incorrect, or a thread about political campaigns and guerrilla warfare!

    The major controversy that I recall surrounding the men's event at 2010 Olympics was Plushy's fit of pique at not winning the gold medal and his outspoken derision of Evan Lysacek winning gold sans macho quad, which has led to resounding aftershocks within the men's field ever since, effectively changing the men's landscape, requirements and expectations.

    BTW, the only mini controversies I can recall associated with Johnny at 2010 Olympics were: 1) a fan giving Johnny a crown of roses after his fp, which he promptly placed on his head in the kiss 'n cry, which some critics castigated him for doing, but perhaps they were just jealous; ;) 2) Johnny responding to media queries re Inman's infamous email to judges; 3) some fur-flying threats re Johnny's original sp costume; 4) Two Canadian broadcasters despicably making fun of Johnny and questioning his gender; 5) Johnny placing 6th overall in both sp and fp behind at least two competitors who clearly performed very poorly. Yep, Johnny was Heartbroken, as were many of his fans, but as far as Johnny complaining a lot, :blah: Would you accuse people like Dorothy Hamill, Stephen Colbert and others of aiding and abetting Johnny because they were very kind, supportive and congratulatory toward him during and after the 2010 Olympics? Even Scott Hamilton and Sandra Bezic were surprised at Johnny's low marks relative to skaters placed ahead of Johnny who made mistakes.




    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1Yb_jdPAeI Weir sp 2010 Olympics -- check out the youtube comments

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Er2-MH2KnH8 Weir fp 2010 Olympics -- check out the youtube comments

    So yes right, a lot of people questioned Johnny's marks, but Johnny didn't quite as much. If anything, Johnny was very gracious immediately after his fp, smiling and waving to the crowd in Vancouver, even as many in the audience were booing the judges' marks. Sure Johnny was unhappy about his marks, and he cried privately backstage, and his team questioned the marks. Later he was very outspoken about his views of why he came in 6th and he mentioned that U.S. officials had admitted to him that they "hadn't pulled for him politically because they hadn't expected him to perform well." Obviously, it's not unheard of in fs for two competitors from the same country to make the medal podium at an Olympics (e.g., Yags and Plushy in 2002), however Johnny is correct in saying that kind of outcome "isn't something that is sought after by the judges." And it certainly is unlikely to happen if your own federation is pulling for your countryman but not for you.

    Let's not forget that Jeremy Abbott came in as U.S. champion and was expected to at least place among the top 5 competitors, and maybe even win gold himself if he performed as well as he had done at U.S. Nationals. So you have three strong Americans coming in as current and former U.S. champions (with two of them former World bronze medalists and one of them the current World champion) and of course the U.S. federation was basically mainly pulling for Evan.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkLqsEr0OLM Johnny comments post-2010 Olympics

    Peanuts, apples and oranges ... butt, in any case, mossop's query re Evan most definitely is an implication that Johnny "incessantly" complains, unlike OGM, Evan Lysacek. :) And while gkelly did not mention the word "incessantly," gkelly did mention the word "complain," definitely inferring that Johnny is a complainer, as well as someone who doesn't "make an effort to earn points." :rofl:

    Far from aftershocks "incessantly looking for excuses to argue that" my view of anything is the more "correct" one, my referenced posts are certainly one view belonging to aftershocks' ego. :lol: Not unlike Johnny, you either get it or you don't, and none of this back-and-forth matters in the least. But forward ho ... the tediously entertaining and unending misadventures of Johnny's OTT detractors and misinterpreted "excuse-makers," and sundry other innocent bystanders. :p
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2012