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Hospital Nurse Who Took Kate Hoax Call Found Dead

Discussion in 'Off The Beaten Track' started by lurvylurker, Dec 7, 2012.

  1. bek

    bek Guest

    First of all, I am not a big fan of those shows either. But there's still a line there. I.e I pull a prank on someone but its not a prank that will cause them to lose their job or destroy their lives.. Vs. doing something that could put someone's livelhood in jeapordy.. (Personally I don't understand why those prank shows are even allowed to show the people they humilate without their permission.

    And I'm not sure how harrassing a sick pregnant woman at 5:30 am in the morning is somehow suppose to be better. Good chance poor Kate was probably sleeping as she should. That to be quite frank plan is almost worse IMO..

    Not to mention this was at a hospital and that nurse was pulled away from patients who might actually need her, so the audience could get some laughs.

    Tricking people is tricking people and I don't enjoy making fun of others. But there are frankly levels/lines.

    (And I never thought what the media was doing here was a-okay)
  2. *Jen*

    *Jen* Well-Known Member

    I didn't say it was acceptable, it's not. I'm just saying there's something wrong with a society that likes those stunts most of the time too.

    But I do agree with you now, the DJs did choose to do it on their own volition. I just think it's really sad that they just did it because people love that sick shit, which I think is just as bad.

    As for the legal issue - a prank call doesn't equal fraud. I'm not going to bother with the definition, but stand by while a fraud charge never sticks :shuffle:
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2012
  3. Angelskates

    Angelskates Well-Known Member

    suep, has anyone in this thread said that the prank wasn't terrible? Has anyone in this thread said it was acceptable? Has anyone said the DJs did nothing wrong?

    I don't think the DJs should loose their jobs, but I have said all along, I don't think the prank was funny, though I do think plenty of people laughed. People laugh when someone falls and slips on ice, before checking they're okay. Plenty of people laugh at all the the prank shows, enough for new ones to keep being created - society DOES accept pranks, and I think would have accepted this one to a much higher degree if they nurse hadn't killed herself. This is only getting the outcry it is getting because it involves the royal family and because the nurse killed herself. Just like bullying is only in the news if there's a death involved. Is this right? I don't think so, but that's the way it is at the moment. I think it's a sad thing about society - more people are saying it's terrible because the nurse died, but nowhere near as many people were saying it was terrible before that, in fact, plenty were actually laughing. So while you (and I, and everyone is this thread, I think) don't think the prank was acceptable, before the nurse killed herself, plenty of people did. They're the people who encourage DJs to do things like this, who listen to these shows, and make money for the station. The stations won't stop doing it until people stop listening or it becomes illegal, because they're interested in the money. The prank TV shows won't stop for the same reason - people watch them. That doesn't mean I like it, I don't watch or listen to these kinds of shows, but I don't blame companies for producing with many consumers like to watch or listen to.
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2012
  4. milanessa

    milanessa engaged to dupa

    Were they? I only heard the clip once but don't remember them asking to speak to her.
  5. DAngel

    DAngel Well-Known Member

    Someone has.

  6. *Jen*

    *Jen* Well-Known Member

    Yes. From the transcript:
    They actually didn't initially say they were the Queen and Charles, nor did they ask for medical information. Their purpose:

    Still immensely stupid and insensitive, as well as not having been thought through, but yes, they did ask to speak to her and only spoke to the nurse because she was sleeping.

    And it was 9am British time, not 5:30, apparently. Not that it's particularly relevant, but since 5:30 has been mentioned up thread...
    Coco and (deleted member) like this.
  7. milanessa

    milanessa engaged to dupa

    Thanks. :)
  8. suep1963

    suep1963 Well-Known Member

    Yes they have--as pointed out, but there were more comments than just the one quoted. And I do not accept this kind of action even if there is no death involved, just as I do not accept bullying if no one gets physically hurt. I am asserting my point of view on this because the normal out cry is "no one cares--they never say it's wrong, they just accept it." Well, I do care, and I do say it's wrong. Just because you don't like me saying that doesn't make any difference to my point of view. I see your posts as making excuses for inexcusable behavior. If that is the kind of world you wish to live in, go enjoy it. I am willing to protest to make a difference how people treat each other.

    I could just shut up and let the comments of "oh, they didn't mean any harm" "it's just a PRANK!" "they didn't think it would work" go by--and some day, maybe a year or two, maybe sooner, there will be a similar incident and once again, the out cry will be "society accepts this" "people laugh". Well, I do not accept it--and I am just as much of society as any one. You say it's sad we accept their actions, and then you turn around and seem to want to chastise me for saying that we should not accept their action. You can't have it both ways.

    If you think it's so damn sad, well, what do you intend to do about it?
  9. bek

    bek Guest

    You all realize their were parts of the tape that the lawyers insisted these folks leave out.. These guys did say I want to see how her tummy bug is doing and then did proceed to pretend to be the Prince and Queen.

    As for prank calls not equaling fraud, why can't it become fraud at one point? The thing is a lot of time its not bothered because it doesn't lead to any permanent damages. Someone on a message board in talking about this talked about a morning show at their radio station that decided to prank call people about winning a million dollars (that they didn't win) random people. Well they random called one guy who promptly had a heartache in shock the person spent weeks in a hospital sued and got settled. These callers got fired. Prank calls are funny until people get hurt. But the fact of the matter is these idiots have no idea who they are calling and what they might do to those people's emotional health.

    And there was lots of anger before these guys and complaint letters well before this nurse died.
  10. Angelskates

    Angelskates Well-Known Member

    suep - I'm choosing not to watch or listen to those kinds of shows, and I attend (and sometimes lead) weekly discussion sessions with school kids here to encourage them to speak out and educate them about bullying. The therapist/social worker I employ also participates in these, as well as trying to build up these kids' confidence in themselves. We've run several workshops/information sessions for parents and teachers as well, as I work with a population (kids with special needs and learning disabilities, and kids from diverse language and cultural backgrounds) who are quite often targets for bullies. I don't consider this protesting, I consider it educating.

    What are you doing about it? How are you protesting?

    bek - do you really think prank calls are funny until someone gets hurt? Who defines hurt?

    I don't like pranks even if it was one of my friends doing it. I just don't, if I want to look like an idiot, I'm quite able to do it myself. I can laugh at myself, but I don't like being laughed at. I think the DJs did the wrong thing, I think their bosses will think twice (I don't think it was the DJs ideas...) before doing it again, but I also think it will stop here. It seems to be like that - a case like this is in the media, it dies down until the next time. Calls to boycott usually mean very little in reality. Meanwhile, many of those same people keep listening and watching prank shows.

    I don't think the DJs should loose their jobs for lots of reasons - I don't think it was their idea for starters, I highly doubt they just came across the phone number, I think their intent is worth something, and they too have been traumatised and I think have learnt their lesson, and I understand they were doing their job. I think they should be suspended for a period, and receive counselling (which they are). I think the nurse who gave out the information should be disciplined as well.
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2012
  11. bek

    bek Guest

    I define hurt as emotional hurt. But in anything if serious consequences happen than rules change. Look at the super bowl incident. Rules immediately changed after that. And the thing is prank calls aren't automatically legal. Apparently some legal experts in Australia are saying these folks actually DID break the law. Apparently the new law in Australia is you can't broadcast folks voice without their consent. So a lot of prank calls involve people agreeing to have the call broadcast. I will say considering this station has had violations in the past, I think the entire station should lose its license not just the DJ. In general I don't necessarily that all pranks are automatically evil but depends on the nature of the prank. And there were plenty of people complained before. Including nursing associations in Australia, once again before this girl's death. They said these jocksters could get nurses in Australia fired and whats so haha funny about that.
  12. Angelskates

    Angelskates Well-Known Member

    If a nurse in Australia gave out confidential information to someone on the phone, without verifying their identity or getting permission from the patient, the nurse would be getting themselves fired, or at the very least, disciplined. The caller would not be responsible for that.
  13. Asli

    Asli Well-Known Member

    In her very first sentence she mentioned "Kate, my grandaughter."

    According to the BBC and other UK sources it was 5:30. That was why the nurse had to pick up the phone, otherwise it would have been a receptionist and things could have been so different. :(

    Are the DJs actually claiming that they expected to be put through to Kate at 5:30am, honestly!
  14. bek

    bek Guest

    And if the callers lied and claimed to be someone they weren't... As in this case. If they had said we are DJS from Australia would they have gotten anything-no. For the record I blame the station and the management more than the radio show hosts. THEY after all vetted it and I'm sure pressure these people to put ratings in.
  15. *Jen*

    *Jen* Well-Known Member

    Sorry, my mistake. I was confusing the time Jacintha was found with the time of the call.

    But key point here...Kate is NOT the Queen's granddaughter. She's the Queen's grandson's wife. I don' t know anyone who would call their grandson's wife their granddaughter. If impersonating anyone, it was one of Kate's grandmothers.

    And no, as per their comment after the prank but before this, they never expected to be put through, to anyone.
  16. Parsley Sage

    Parsley Sage Well-Known Member

    I don't know what nursing shifts are like in the UK, but my sister is a nurse here in Canada and if she is at work at 5:30 am she's about 10 hours into a 12 hour shift.

    They should have hung up when they realized they were being put through.
  17. bek

    bek Guest

    They then did impersonate the Queen and Prince Charles aftewards. Not to mention apparently there were excerpts taken out...Exerpts the legal team insisted on. To be frank we don't know this is the exact reason for the suicide and yes I don't think these people wanted this and I do feel bad for them.

    However to say prank calls happen all the time so whats the big deal. I don't think you can make every prank call illegal. And there are some (ordering a bunch of flowers in the name of the queen etc) that are for the most part harmless. But in a civilized society there has to be a line. And the line needs to be the vulnerable. Is there anyone more vulnerable than a sick pregnant woman in the hospital? Or nursers who are stressed out and overworked as is. on the job.?? There has to be lines drawn in the sand. Even for radio. What I will hate is if these DJs are made the sacrificial lambs and this stupid radio show gets off scott free. The producers and the lawyers-approved this crap.

    In general I think prank calls on radio shows-should only be allowed if the prankee agrees to be recorded. And yes I think their victims who had it done without their knowledge should be able to sue. A Radio license is a privileged not a right, and it doesn't give them the right to exploit.

    To be frank the radio station's CEO with his we are the victims are people are humans is what has me so angry. This radio station has a history of exploiting other people-and in this case without their permission. And so when it turns on them-its somehow wrong...

    It would be awful if it turned out this death had nothing to do with this prank which is a possibility. So in reality for me it is the prank itself that needs to be criticized.
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 9, 2012
  18. PDilemma

    PDilemma Well-Known Member

    My grandparents called their grandchildren's spouses their grandchildren. My aunt and uncle call my husband their nephew. That would not actually be that unusual.
  19. suep1963

    suep1963 Well-Known Member

    What am I doing? I too do not participate in watching those shows or listening to those stations. I also tell people that I think it was an unethical thing to do. And when you continue to call me out for that, I continue with my protest. Am I suppose to say "Oh Angelskates--you are right--I am tilting at windmills in thinking that being a lone voice in the wilderness with make a difference. Let me just shut up and sit in the corner and forget about it"

    I do not have the time nor energy to go back through all your posts (and I'm talking directly to you, since you seem to be so interested in singling me out) but you seem to have started out with it wasn't that big a deal, to the point now where you are saying it wasn't a good thing to do. I seem to have been saying it wasn't a good thing to do the entire time. You say it wasn't a simple thing for the DJs--I say it was--simply say "no I'm not going to do this" If you have to put an idea past your company lawyers perhaps that should be an indication that it's a stupid thing to do. And they did run it past the lawyers, so you know they knew that what they were doing was questionable. Do I think the DJs should lose their jobs? Well, I've said it over and over that personal responsibility means facing the consequences of your actions. It doesn't matter what they meant to happen--they may say "oh, we thought we wouldn't get through" Doesn't matter what they thought or meant--this is the real world we live in. You do something that causes harm, the harm is real. It is not the harm of the death--because we still do not know (as far as I can tell) what the exact cause of death was. They intended to do an action to invade the privacy of someone who was extremely ill. That is harm enough. What kind of person thinks something like that is funny? They started the whole event--that is what they are responsible for. Poor, poor DJs--who you are casting in the role of traumatized victims themselves. Traumatized be damned--they did this to themselves, of their own free will. It's called CONSEQUENCE, not trauma. I hope they are feeling horrible about the whole thing--for if they are not, then they are heartless, soulless creatures. But they are not victims of anything but their own stupidity and complete lack of compassion.

    You think the station manager put them up to the stunt? Well, they still did it. They didn't say no, they went running for the phones, giggling like stupid bullies on the playground--and splashed it all over their web site as well. "oooohhh--check it out--see what clever fellows we are--big hoax coming up--join the fun!" And now you say they shouldn't be penalized for what they did. Yet you say you teach your kids about bullying. Are you for it or against it? Which way are you going here? Do you say "their actions were wrong and they should face the consequences of those actions" or do you say "their actions were wrong--but they didn't mean it, so nothing should happen to them"

    You ask me what I am doing about it--I am going to continue to state the same thing over and over and over. Ask me as many ways as you wish, my answer will be the same. And I will continue to stand up for the abused, the bullied, the victims of "practical" jokes and pranks where ever I witness it. I will not be the one saying it's harmless, of no consequence or the awful phrase "it's something you need to learn to live with". One thing I will not be doing is making excuses for anyone participating in any of these actions.
    Really and (deleted member) like this.
  20. taf2002

    taf2002 zexy demon

    I'm with suep in thinking the DJ's should lose their jobs even if their bosses put them up to it. They could have said no. I don't believe they would have been fired or punished for not doing a questionable prank. Besides, it wasn't even funny IMO - it was more like "Prince Albert in a can" or "is your refrigerator running". The DJ's sound like elementary school age morons.
  21. MacMadame

    MacMadame Cat Lady-in-Training

    I, for one, am going to hold my breath until I turn blue. So there! ;)

    You may think that people who don't agree with you are trying to "excuse the inexcusable" but what people who disagree with you are trying to tell you is that they don't think what the DJs did was inexcusable. While I don't think it was particularly funny and I don't watch or listen to shows like this, I don't think the DJs did anything wrong and I'm much more appalled that people working in a hospital have so little training that they'd just put someone through without vetting them and/or start blathering on about someone's health without a single question as to who they are.

    Because fraud has a legal definition.
    *Jen* and (deleted member) like this.
  22. Angelskates

    Angelskates Well-Known Member

    And you think I should "Oh suep --you are right--I am tilting at windmills in thinking that being a lone voice in the wilderness with make a difference. Let me just shut up and sit in the corner and forget about it". :rolleyes: I have said over and over I think that the joke was not funny, and the DJs did the wrong thing. The DJs didn't start the whole event, their bosses did. I've never said that the DJs don't deserve a consequence. I have said just the opposite, in fact. Over and over, and in the post you last quoted. I don't agree with you on what that consequence should be.

    I am doing something practical to try and educate kids, parents and teachers about bullying. Of course, I am against it. I find this comment incredibly insulting. I believe bullies should have consequences, and I believe they need educating. I think those being bullied also need to be part of that education. I don't think all kids who bully should be suspended from school, I don't think all adults should be fired. You implying that I am for bullying because I disagree with you about the consequence is insulting.

    Do you think the nurse who gave the confidential information should be fired? Or disciplined?

    I think the reaction to the DJs - sending them death threats, extreme hate mail etc. is just as much bullying than the phone call they made. Do you think they deserve death threats and extreme hate mail?

    Bullying, by the way, is habitual behaviour, so while the DJs may (or may not, I don't know their backgrounds) be bullies, their behaviour wasn't bullying. Not all mean/stupid behaviour is bullying. The nurse who answered the phone wasn't bullied, she was asked some questions, she wasn't pestered or "forced" to answer. She wasn't continually called until she gave the information, she gave it up easily, without any pressure, straight away it seems. One-off prank calls aren't bullying. Prank calling the same person over and over is bullying, and someone who pranks many people habitually is a bully. What the DJs did was stupid, but it wasn't bullying.
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2012
  23. bek

    bek Guest

    I don't agree with the death threats at all.. However I think they are getting a little bit of a taste of their own medicine too. What they do to others with their silly pranks. However of course the death threats are wrong and I think its wrong just they are getting blamed.

    However when you play with fire and certainly going after a highly famous person like Kate and intrude into others privacy its what you get.

    I do think them AND their radio station deserve to be made an example of in terms of that radio station losing its license. And if they broke laws-yes it needs to end too. I'm sorry its my job crap. Nobody has a right to humilate other people for entertainment. Or use somebody like that without their permission. Those nurses did not agree to go on the radio show.

    You have said those DJs didn't deserve to be fired they were just doing their jobs. However the one nurse should be. The one nurser thought she was talking to people who had clearance more than likely. These folks they were purposely trying to deceive.
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 9, 2012
  24. AxelAnnie

    AxelAnnie Well-Known Member

    My uncle was in the hospital several times in the last year. I handle all his medical affairs. both my sainted aunt and I required passwords before we were given one single m9rsel of information......and we are nobodies. How that hospital let something like that happen with the future Queen I beyond me.
  25. Angelskates

    Angelskates Well-Known Member

    Do you think all pranksters should be fired if making pranks is part of their job? What about a comedian who insults someone as part of the job, but you don't think the joke is funny? I don't think the prank was funny either, but what makes this one worse than any other? That nurse gave out the information? Do you think the nurse should also be fired?
  26. bek

    bek Guest

    Angelskates plenty of pranksters have gotten fired lost their jobs-when they cross certain lines. A prank would have been calling a restaurant setting up a dinner for the Queen and her Corgis. That's a prank. And while a little embarrassed nobody's going to get hurt.

    A prank would maybe be contacting the person who is fixing the Prince's car to see if you can talk to the Prince. Not saying this is okay at all.

    However, calling up a hospital where the people there are dealing with life and death situations in the early morning when these people are exhausted. That's crossing a line (and putting them in position to trick them into revealing LEGALLY protected info).

    Asking to speak to the Princess who is in the hospital, worried about her baby-that's sick.

    There's a point in society where pranks end. Even comedians can't just say anything. And there's a point where a prank can be considered fraud and yes harrassment. Especially when it violates other people's rights. And they violated several people's rights. They violated the nurses by taping their voices without their permission. They violated Kate's by inquiring about her (and yes the inquired how's her tummy bug)... Its a gross violation.

    Just because its my job to prank doesn't mean you don't have to know where the line is-because there is a line. And your going to prank strangers-than yes your responsible for their unknown actions. I.e like a guy having a heartache with one of those prank calls.

    I read some quotes from people I think from India saying things like well doesn't a huge humilation at times lead to suicide? And another person saying one culture's funny ha ha joke, is another person's humilation/shame..

    Before people get on reality shows from what I understand for a lot of them they go through tests and all kinds of things to see if they can handle this kind of spotlight. These nursers never signed up for the public humilation those bozos gave them. They thrust someone into the global scene, who never asked for it, and was certainly not prepared to handle it.

    And in someways whats worse is precisely it was done to another country too. Oh the Queen may be the Queen of Australia but many Australians seem to want to end that, and it doesn't seem like there's the same relationship...In fact it was all about how we got the "Brits" ha ha. That's not so funny.
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 10, 2012
  27. Angelskates

    Angelskates Well-Known Member

    bek - putting someone in a position where they may reveal confidential information is not forcing them to reveal the information. She could have said no, or at the very least tried to verify who they were. The nurse revealed legally protected information, she's responsible for that. I ask you again, do you think she should be fired? And :lol: that you think Kate's rights were violated by the DJs "inquiring about her". Kate's rights to medical privacy were violated when the nurse gave out that information, not when the DJs asked for the information.

    I don't want the Queen as my head of state, but that has nothing to do with this. The fact that Kate is famous should mean it was even more difficult to get information on her, yet it was easy. That's not the DJs' fault - that is the hospital and the nurses' fault (and maybe the royal family if they chose not to have passwords etc.)
  28. bek

    bek Guest

    First of all the DJS pretended to be people who were likely entitled to such information. When on the phone unless there is a password set up-there's no way of verifying that people are who they say they are. Its a matter of faith and good will. There were aspects of the tape that was left out. But these people claimed to be people who were entitled to updates. Its not like they said we are an Australian radio show will you give us the information. They set out to deceive.

    You realize likely too then nurser who died may have come under fire for just transfering the freaking call.
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 10, 2012
  29. Alex Forrest

    Alex Forrest Banned Member

    There are pranks and there is outright outrageous meanness. Maybe the DJs didn't really think it through that they could be hurting anyone and as far as everyone was concerned before her suicide they just decided to sort of laugh it off. But I have a suspicion that behind the scenes the royal family was furious. If the Windsors can't even be in a hospital without well-intentioned nurses giving away medical information, then ANYONE could. I would not be surprised if both nurses were on the chopping block, they really did screw up. In America at least, you can't even get a yes or no whether a patient is even admitted. So yes, in America these nurses would have been fired. That it was the WINDSORS that this prank affected is outrageous. If William and Kate aren't even safe from having health information revealed by an unfortunate prank, then no one is safe. I can almost guarantee you, there were some pretty pretty heated hospital administration meetings afterwards. And to be honest, I would seriously consider dismissing at least the nurse who divulged information. Maybe not the one who killed herself since all she did was transfer a call. But who knows what kind of system was set up for the Windsors wrt contact. You'd have to think there had to have been SOME sort of code or safeguarding. Kate wasn't your typical patient in England. And how awful for the royal family to now have such a black cloud in this moment. First baby of the next generation and now this horrible thing happened. I would be heartbroken if I felt a prank meant for me resulted in a person's suicide. My family would fight like hell if this happened, I am sure the Windsors have an even bigger fighting spirit.

    I like a good prank, but I also walk a fine line. Anyone see that prank in Brazil with the girl in the elevator? Here is the clip, and you might find it funny: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7N5OhNplEd4

    I'm a little brother, and it was my goal in life to make my sister scream that loud with my pranks. HOWEVER, what I object to is the elderly who were pranked. Imagine if your 80 y/o Mom or Dad were pranked and had a coronary arrest? So I didn't quite find it as funny looking back. In just the same way, I object to this royal prank. No I do not think those DJs are 100% responsible for this nurse's death, she obviously had major medical issues and was walking a fine line. And this one thing tipped her over. Same thing with the scary elevator prank. Had someone had a coronary arrest, you could blame it on the patient having cardiovascular/coronary artery disease, and say it was the victim's fault for not having cleaner coronary arteries.

    I like a prank, as long as it's not harming someone. Hopefully this is a live and learn situation.

    This is one of my favorite pranks: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skHM2hqTxn8

    ETA: I think that ALL parties involved in a prank need to give consent for it to become public information. I'm sure both nurses realized they were had and potentially or inevitably were going to lose their jobs. I wish they'd at least have been able to say "No way. I do not consent to this prank being made public. This could cost me my career."
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2012
  30. suep1963

    suep1963 Well-Known Member

    So you think it's excusable to attempt to harass a seriously ill person (no matter who it is) and call it funny? Not just call it funny but make a big production about to to make sure that there is an audience to follow your attempt. Cold world you live in.

    You think because the DJs (adults with a mind of their own) may have told by their bosses to put a prank call in to a hospital that they are now not responsibly for that call? Yeah--I'm sure the big head honcho sat down with them and said "make this call or you are fired" It's called common sense--they did not exhibit any.

    I'm sure they got nasty calls and threats to the station--they called such attention to themselves that it was bound to come back at them. Karma sucks. Do I approve of such behavior? No, I do not. However, they brought that upon themselves by what they did. They are not victims of anything but their own actions.

    I am not saying you agree with bullying because you do not think the DJs should be fired, but how I see your posts, you are excusing what they did by calling them traumatized victims, excusing what they did by saying they were told to do it. I'm not. I say they are reaping what they sowed. If you do crappy things, do not be surprised when the crap is thrown back at you. I do not feel sorry for them. I haven't said they should be fired, I have only said I am not boo-hooing over them if they are. The behavior they exhibited does not seem to be a one time incident, nor did they seem to hesitate to do it, so I don't think compassion is something that is a top priority. Without compassion for another person, it's very easy to see them as a target to be got.

    You ask if the nurse should be fired/disciplined for her actions--yes--if she did not follow the rules. They are in place for a reason, and they are very, very clear. And now, I am through with posting here--it's getting tiresome and boring for others, as I have already been told. And goodness knows, I'd hate to be rude on top of everything else.