Gymnastics News #21 - Tumbling on to Tokyo

[slipchuk]

Maybe I am wrong in my analysis - but for the next quad, I am betting on Yul Moldauer and Akash Modi being the ones to watch in the U.S. for Tokyo.

I actually think that Whittenburg's best bet is to be an event specialist.

Yes I think this quad will be all about Moldauer and Modi in the AA. Whittenburg will mainly become a specialist type, I also agree. And Mikaluk will gradualy start to drop in relevance from here, maybe not even making the 2020 Olympic team if he is still competing then.

 

[Erin]

Atler was my favorite US gymnast at that time. I would have just used toe-on/stand/jump connections or the glide/kip/shoot-through connections to get to the HB instead of that free-hip which she always mistimed in competition. The Rybackis kept letting her use that connection (not even that hard) that made her lose all the time. I think her career could have been salvaged at that time if they had only protected her on bars. Her vault/beam/floor were all event finals worthy. Atler did have a breakdown/injury at 1999 World which didn't help her cause either. She went to Valery Liukin a year too late. 2 years with him probably would have gotten her to the Olympics, possibly some medals, maybe even a few golds.

I'm not sure that the move to Liukin was a very good or healthy one for Atler either, although perhaps it was just too late for her at that point for anyone to save her. But she talks about Liukin putting her on a diet and things like that, which I don't think helped matters. I actually think that maybe it could have worked with the Rybackis if they'd actually had an open conversation about things. I'm trying to remember where it was covered, I think most of it is The End of the Perfect 10, but it seems like the decision to leave the Rybackis was made by Atler's mom and Vanessa herself is pretty hazy on the details now. She wanted to quit and rather than suggesting to talk to the Rybackis to come up with a better strategy (or just you know, letting her absolutely miserable daughter quit what was making her miserable), her mom got on the phone with her agent and Vanessa changed coaches without so much as a phone call to the Rybackis. That that she wanted to quit might also explain her downward spiral the next year...even if she didn't quit physically, she kind of psychologically gave up.

Atler will always be my biggest "what could have been" nostalgic favorite. I remember reading about Kristie Phillips in the mid-90s and never really understanding why she was so touted when she never really won anything big, but then I watched Atler's career firsthand and understood. So much talent, but the timing was wrong (e.g. if only she'd been age-eligible in 1997 or there had been a Worlds in 1998) and she was completely mishandled by everyone around her (both the Rybackis and her parents). I think her bars problems were solvable given that she had good technique...Simone Biles hated bars too (and maybe still does) but was given a routine she could hit consistently and worked her way through it. But if it turned out that she really did have too much of a mental block with bars, pulling an Alicia Sacramone and being a great three-event gymnast could have also saved her career. It's kind of like some skaters who are inconsistent singles skaters when they have to worry about five or six different triple jumps but become super consistent when they switch to pairs and only have to worry about one or two (plus throw jumps). I think that the focus on bars caused consistency problems on her other events.

 

[slipchuk]

Kristie Phillips was a case of hype based on nothing at all. No elite level talent other than a bit on beam. Crazy overhype and no surprise to me she didnt even make a weak U.S Olympic team. Atler though is a truly special talent, something totally different than Phillips. I agree it is too bad she didnt compete today and could just drop bars altogether and be an amazing 3 event gymnast. Back then you couldnt just drop an event.

 

[VGThuy]

At least her mom and that crazy van was entertaining.

 

[slipchuk]

At least her mom and that crazy van was entertaining.

Hell yeah, loved that!

 

[Erin]

I agree it is too bad she didnt compete today and could just drop bars altogether and be an amazing 3 event gymnast. Back then you couldnt just drop an event.

I actually think that you could have theoretically dropped an event then given that the competition format for team was 6-5-4. But in practice it was harder for a few reasons...the US team was generally picked based on AA results until they brought back Bela in 2000, so I don't know that there was any protocol in place for an event specialist. Also the format of not everyone competing all events was still pretty new and people didn't really think about developing a team where people complemented each other's weaknesses. Finally, I think that Vanessa wanted to be an all-around star and thought (rightly) that she had the talent to do so, if not the mental fortitude. This would have been a hurdle to overcome even in a more specialist-friendly quad like 2001-04 or 2005-08.

I actually don't think it would be that easy for her to drop an event now. I feel like not being able to compete vault and floor at all cost Ashton Locklear a spot on the Olympic team. And being a two event gymnast in 2012 was probably why Alicia Sacramone was not even named an alternate that year. There was a reason Madison Kocian was still training all four events right up through the Olympic Games and doing them in podium training. With 5-3-3 teams (and 4-3-3 in 2020), dropping an event makes things risky when someone gets injured. It's part of why Aly pushed through her bars struggles to at least become a mediocre bars gymnast instead of the poor one she was before. (And Aly, like Vanessa also wanted that coveted all-around star status.) So the right timing for Vanessa to be a 3 event gymnast would have been 2001-2008...she basically needed to be born about 5 or 6 years later than she actually was, to hit her peak in 2004, right when Martha was itching to make her team stronger with vaulters.

 

[Coco]

Wanted to share this lovely moment with all of you.

 

[4rkidz]

Wanted to share this lovely moment with all of you.

Thanks I had not seen that before - how lovely!

 

[bardtoob]

Wanted to share this lovely moment with all of you.

4A like with +3 GOEs.

 

[Allen]

https://www.google.com/amp/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN16A0EQ

Mihai Brestyan will be taking over in Australia for Peggy Lidick.

 

[bardtoob]

https://www.google.com/amp/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN16A0EQ

Mihai Brestyan will be taking over in Australia for Peggy Lidick.

1) Australia sure knows how to pick coaches, Shannon Miller's coach then Aly Raisman's coach.

2) I wonder if this has any implications on Aly's career?

 

[Aceon6]

I've been poking around looking for local reaction to the announcement. Crickets, unless the real discussion is taking place in the Brestyan private site.

As for Aly, there should be no impact. She can still consult him when needed.

 

[judiz]

http://www.indystar.com/story/news/...ases-usa-gymnastics-sex-abuse-files/98693764/

 

[FiveRinger]

Is anyone watching Scam Cup? I am taping....have to work tonight.

 

[Erin]

I'm watching. Not a lot of surprises so far. Ragan Smith is a gamer and hitting her routines but her E-score on bars was pretty ridiculous. Trautwig is being his usual ridiculous self, with my favourite eye roll inducing comment being when he said the Karolyis created a dynasty like no other before or something like that. And I'm thinking oh? I think the Soviet dynasty might have something to say about that.

ETA that Riley McKusker falling on bars and the beam dismount would probably be considered a surprise as she looked great in podium training and has been winning camps.

Also a mixed bag on NBC addressing the Larry Nassar scandal. On the one hand, I'm glad they at least addressed it. On the other hand, the interview with Nastia was silly and pointless...just because he didn't abuse Nastia doesn't mean anything. I'm glad Nastia at least added her support for the gymnasts because otherwise it would have sounded like she was trying to suggest that because she didn't get abused that he didn't abuse anyone.

 

[skatingguy]

Ragan with a miss on beam.

 

[Erin]

Yeah I think I must have jinxed Ragan by calling her a gamer. This event is a bit of a splatfest (somewhat typical of the first of the quad) combined with the usual judging that is skewed towards the Americans. Some years I defend the judging but not so much this year. I haven't seen Kim Bui's routines (boo NBC) but Teramoto's E scores are pretty harsh compared to Smith's.

 

[Allskate]

Also a mixed bag on NBC addressing the Larry Nassar scandal. On the one hand, I'm glad they at least addressed it. On the other hand, the interview with Nastia was silly and pointless...just because he didn't abuse Nastia doesn't mean anything. I'm glad Nastia at least added her support for the gymnasts because otherwise it would have sounded like she was trying to suggest that because she didn't get abused that he didn't abuse anyone.

I had a similar reaction. Nastia sounded almost like she was defending the doctor (or coaches and higher ups) by expressing her total shock and talking about how Nassar had always been so professional when treating her over the years. Nassar would have been an idiot to molest Nastia given who her father was.

Too bad for Riley, but hopefully she'll learn from the experience.

Congrats to Ragan. And to Yul!

 

[ilovepaydays]

I'm calling this right now: Yul Moldauer is winning U.S. Nationals this year. Even if Mikulak recovers in time, he's too inconsistent.

Yul understands the importance of not making mistakes.

 

[danafan]

Wow another huge fail for NBC! For the second year in a row they put up the women's "final" standings on the screen before they were final! Melaine De Jesus dos Santos from France won the AA bronze but they were interviewing Smith as the winner before she even finished competing. NBC didn't even show her. If you only watched this on NBC and not online you wouldn't even know she was there, and you wouldn't know that Ellie Black was third AA last year.....

 

[Erin]

Yeah that combined with Al's repeated incorrect insistence that the leader goes last would further that incorrect impression. Sigh. I'm not sure why I expect anything better out of NBC.

 

[danafan]

Al was insufferable. More than usual. Twice on air he said that Teramoto was an Olympic medalist....and he name dropped Li Ning when discussing Japan's history of success in men's gymnastics...

 

[Fridge_Break]

I was hoping Al and his stoplight would have gotten the can after Rio, but alas, no. Season no. 21 where he continues to give my eyeballs their exercise from the excessive rolling he causes

 

[viennese]

NBC's break into actual journalism (re: Nassar) during a near-fluff competition was extremely weird. Weirder still was the cut to Nastia Liukin's defensive comments.

Like we need to be reassured that this guy had never gone after her, but we'll say no more about the way-too-cozy relationship between NBC and USA Gymnastics.

 

[Rob]

I'm so ready to watch these new US guys. Nice job. Gorgeous lines from Riley. I hope she gets more opportunities.

 

[dramagrrl]

As long as Ragan Smith is still doing that grossly cutesy FX routine, I will not be able to pay attention to anything that might be good about her gymnastics.

 

[Rob]

Wow another huge fail for NBC! For the second year in a row they put up the women's "final" standings on the screen before they were final! Melaine De Jesus dos Santos from France won the AA bronze but they were interviewing Smith as the winner before she even finished competing. NBC didn't even show her. If you only watched this on NBC and not online you wouldn't even know she was there, and you wouldn't know that Ellie Black was third AA last year.....

Did we even see 4 routines from any woman other than US? Again, mostly fluff, standing around while Trautwig talks. Terrible.

 

[Erin]

We got 3 routines from Teramoto. Which is about the best we can expect given that vault wasn't live for TV except for Smith, whose vault was delayed for TV. Aside from Teramoto, I think we got 1 routine from Vollman and 2 from Xie Yufen. But none from bronze medalist De Jesus Dos Santos, which is a new low.

NBC could really learn a lot from the way ESPN (via the SEC and PAC 12 networks) covers NCAA.

 

[Fridge_Break]

NBC could really learn a lot from the way ESPN (via the SEC and PAC 12 networks) covers NCAA.

This. But then they'd be with minimal time for the , and we all know the importance of that. NBC broadcast coverage is one of the reasons why I've gravitated so much towards NCAA instead of elite.

 

[missing]

The Indianapolis Star has a lengthy article about what was revealed in files concerning USA Gymnastics and its approach to handling coaches were accused of sexually abusing minors.

In sworn depositions released Friday, USA Gymnastics officials who handle sexual abuse complaints acknowledged they had no legal or sex abuse training, yet would judge some complaints as hearsay based on the fact that they were not signed by a witness, victim or victim's parent.

The sex abuse complaint files revealed that some coaches weren't banned from the sport until years after USA Gymnastics discovered they were convicted of crimes against children.