Gymnastics News #21 - Tumbling on to Tokyo

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Erin

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Since I'm still on a gymnastics kick, I've been watching some of the older full event broadcasts on USAG's YouTube channel. One of them was the 1988 US Nationals, partly because I was curious as to how Kristie Phillips did (definitely seems like she was undermarked on floor if you ask me):
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QWEVfkf5oX0

Anyway, one of the more interesting bits to me was the Bela interview where he goes on a rant about how he was refusing some Olympic delegation position because he wasn't going to be the coach and he only wanted to go if he was the coach. I didn't follow gymnastics at all then and hadn't heard this backstory, so I did a bit more digging and came up with a few articles that explained it pretty well:
http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/features/fall-from-grace-19880922
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/12570/THE-REAL-GYMNASTICS-ACTION-IS-BEHIND-THE-SCENES.html?pg=all

It's interesting that USAG had been trying to set up a semi-centralized system for a long time and not just since late 1999 when Bela started as national team coordinator. It's not at all surprising though that (a) Bela and Martha take credit for setting up a system that has been USAG's desire for a long time and (b) Bela refused to buy into such a system until he or Martha could be in charge of it.

And this one has some quotes from Kristie Phillips that are pretty :eek::
http://articles.latimes.com/1988-08-07/sports/sp-416_1_u-s-olympic-gymnastics-trials

If this were today, she would totally be pulling a Skinner and retweeting pics of herself photoshopped into the team pic :lol:
 
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VGThuy

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I can only imagine what Kim Kelly would have done if social media was present during her situation.

That LA Times article with those Kristie Phillips quotes were really something. It's also weird to see Don Peters and Doe Yamashiro mentioned considered Peters is now banned by USAG due to his sexually abusing Yamashiro and two other gymnasts:

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/peters-318708-yamashiro-gymnastics.html

Jennifer Sey on the Don Peters situation from a young gymnast's perspective at the time:

http://www.salon.com/2011/11/18/when_sex_abuse_happens_and_no_one_stops_it/

ETA:

This NYTimes article talks a bit more about how Don Peters ended up not being the national coach after all that the Rolling Stones article mentioned and has this Kristie Phillips gem:

By the trials, even some of Karolyi's athletes were picking up the theme. Phillips, a two-time national champion disappointed at qualifying only as an alternate, said the ''ideal situation for me'' would be ''to injure two people and name Bela the coach.''

http://www.nytimes.com/1988/08/10/sports/olympic-gymnastics-peters-explains-why-he-quit.html
 
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Jayar

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The Kellogg's tour cast is pretty crappy... http://www.kelloggstour.com/cast/ I thought perhaps this was old, but there are 2016 credentials on the bios. So... only Gabby Douglas from the women's team so far? I've heard that not all of them are getting the tour...
 

hirshey girl

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I heard several interviews post-Rio that all of the fierce 5 were planning to tour. Maybe Laurie would not be on every stop due to DWTS but I know that Aly & Simone were saying that they would be there. Also thought I read somewhere that Shawn Johnson was planning on touring?
 

Erin

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That LA Times article with those Kristie Phillips quotes were really something. It's also weird to see Don Peters and Doe Yamashiro mentioned considered Peters is now banned by USAG due to his sexually abusing Yamashiro and two other gymnasts.

Yeah, it is kind of weird...I knew that Peters had been banned, but I didn't remember who the gymnasts involved were. Good articles and now I want to read Sey's book.

This NYTimes article talks a bit more about how Don Peters ended up not being the national coach after all that the Rolling Stones article mentioned and has this Kristie Phillips gem:

http://www.nytimes.com/1988/08/10/sports/olympic-gymnastics-peters-explains-why-he-quit.html

Wow...she really was quite a piece of work. Obviously she missed media training day.
 

VGThuy

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I know. Can you imagine anyone saying that now? I think there were a lot of things going on for a 16 year old to be saying such things. I'm glad she was able to retire on her own terms with a much healthier attitude at 2000 Nationals.
 

bardtoob

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It's interesting that USAG had been trying to set up a semi-centralized system for a long time and not just since late 1999 when Bela started as national team coordinator. It's not at all surprising though that (a) Bela and Martha take credit for setting up a system that has been USAG's desire for a long time and (b) Bela refused to buy into such a system until he or Martha could be in charge of it.

My take away from that article was that USA Gymnastics was lying to the IRS about its income by underreporting by $1.7 million and spending more on officials than athletes :eek:
 

VGThuy

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My take away from that article was that USA Gymnastics was lying to the IRS about its income by underreporting by $1.7 million and spending more on officials than athletes :eek:

How about the fact that they paid for the athletes travel and lodging back in 1984 and then stopped doing that in 1988 as one of the articles indicated. :eek:

I mean wtf.

It's sort of amazing that despite all the disarray, tension, and adults acting seriously immature and distracting the athletes by getting them involved, the team performed just well enough to have a team score that was good enough for the bronze...if not for the fact that alternate Rhonda Faen didn't step off the podium during Garrison-Steves' compulsory bar routine and allowed the East German officials to call for a half a point deduction, which was unanimously granted.
 

bardtoob

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It's sort of amazing that despite all the disarray, tension, and adults acting seriously immature and distracting the athletes by getting them involved, the team performed just well enough to have a team score that was good enough for the bronze...

The behavior among the adults was shocking.
 

Erin

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Yeah, to be clear, I'm not defending any of the other actions of USAG back in the day. Seems like it was a thoroughly corrupt organization and Greg Marsden leaving because they wanted him to cut judging deals is yet another example. And the coaches weren't any better.

They just happened to have one good idea back in the day to create a semi-centralized system and I think Bela has taken enough undeserved credit for it.
 
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Aly Raisman: 2020 is the Goal.

Aly and her family had a pretty cool interview on Ellen today. Very glad I DVRed it.

Yay, looking forward to Aly making gymnastics fans froth at the mouth for four more years! :lol: ;) I think her chances will be tough, but if anyone can, it's Aly!

She's the embodiment of the quote, "consistency is far better than rare moments of greatness." I would love it if she ends up the most decorated US gymnast in history.
 

VGThuy

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I'm happy you're happy. ;)

I hope every country improves their depth because I don't know if I can take another four years of little-to-no competition with broken and/or aging gymnasts trying their best not to die under this code outside the Americans. Honestly, Simone was the primary thing keeping me interested in gym in the past four years though there were other, sparse highlights as well.
 

bardtoob

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Yay, looking forward to Aly making gymnastics fans froth at the mouth for four more years! :lol: ;) I think her chances will be tough, but if anyone can, it's Aly!

She's the embodiment of the quote, "consistency is far better than rare moments of greatness." I would love it if she ends up the most decorated US gymnast in history.

Basically, if Aly is able to keep her D score on floor 1st or 2nd in the world while making incremental improvements in form, such as it is now, then she can easily qualify individually on floor.

Beam is also worthwhile for Aly, but it is always more risky than any other apparatus.
 

Erin

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I hope every country improves their depth because I don't know if I can take another four years of little-to-no competition with broken and/or aging gymnasts trying their best not to die under this code outside the Americans.

Me too. Although I also hope the Americans continue to maintain their already high standards because I'm afraid that if things do go downhill for completely unrelated reasons, that people will think it's because of the lack of Karolyi influence. And I also hope that if the rest of the world does catch up to the Americans, that people recognize that for what it is and also don't think the Americans have gotten worse from lack of Karolyi.
 

VGThuy

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I hope the Americans up the ante in a different way and start focusing on artistry and dance again with their high D scores in vault and FX. As a leader of the gym world, I wish they were more like the Soviets and less like the Rombots of the late 1990s to mid 2000s.
 

Erin

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That would be nice too, although I feel like the comparison with the Rombots is a little unfair. While the Americans do sometimes take advantage of the code, they are also frequently doing incredibly difficult gymnastics...the Rombots would have been killed by an open-ended code because their gymnastics was all about getting to a 10.0 start value with little to no risk.

But yes, more artistry and dance from the Americans would be great. Perhaps it would encourage the rest of the world to follow suit because hardly anyone was bringing it in that department.
 

VGThuy

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According this this gymnastics website:

https://balancebeamsituation.com/2016/09/07/2017-versus-2016-a-beam-comparison/

Gold medal winning beam routine by Sanne Wevers would be downgraded by 0.8 in D-score with the new code of points being adopted for the next four years. Reminds me of the whole uneven bars retooling after 2008 where pirouette-heavy bars routines from the Chinese and Nastia Liukin were severely affected. Laurie Hernandez's beam also loses 0.8 in D-score.

Aliya Mustafina would lose 0.7 in D-score, Aly Raisman would lose 0.5, and Simone Biles would lose 0.4 in D-score.

Most affected is Flavia Saraiva would would lose a whole point in D-score.

From the write-up above, it looks like the FIG wants to reward and encourage a certain type of beam routine.

In general, the most effectively HUGE-D beam routines in the next quad will have F or G dismounts and will also take advantage of three-element mixed dance/acro combinations that can get individual CV as well as a series bonus. So basically Simone’s exact routine.

At least it looks like Aliya's fake acro series will still get credit as a real acro series, and that's a real victory for Aliya if she decides to continue, and the spin combinations are still garnering the same bonuses, so we may start seeing more of that from the field a la the Dutch.

I'm not looking forward to gymnasts attempting the more difficult dismounts before they're ready. I foresee a lot of chucking of skills.

In a more general note, gymnastics always makes major changes to the code after every Olympics. I've never seen any other sport retool their scoring system and dictating what sort of skills they want their athletes to perform and what routines they want to see. Even figure skating's code of points doesn't nearly go through as much retooling...at least not since the change before the 2007-2008 season after the IJS's initial years and ironing out the things they didn't want to see anymore...and then re-upping the quad and changing the UR situation to allow a bit more flexibility for skaters who are close to rotation. The actual routines themselves and skills done haven't really changed. Gymnastics, on the other hand, looks seriously different after every change and it gets fuglier.
 
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Erin

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One thing worth noting is that pretty much all routines across all four events will lose ~0.5 in D-score because the FIG is removing the Composition Requirement on bars, beam, and floor to have a dismount that is a D difficulty or higher, and is also adjusting the vault D-scores (mostly) accordingly.

If a similar analysis were done on Simone's floor routine, she'd lose 1.0 in D-score because her aerial doesn't meet the CR for forward tumbling anymore and the removal of the D-dismount CR, while most other people would just lose 0.5 from the removal of the D-dismount. But Simone won't actually lose the 0.5 for not meeting the CR, she will just find a different way to meet it.

I actually wish the FIG would have taken more steps to push gymnastics in a certain direction...like requiring more variety in tumbling runs and devaluing wolf turns to the point of making them pointless to attempt. I do think some of their steps have been positive, however, like the aforementioned elimination of aerials for the front tumbling CR and devaluing the gainer "layout" (that is really always a pike) off the end of the beam.
 
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