Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by FSfan107, Sep 14, 2013.
how is that different from any other discipline? look at the pairs scores from this weekend.
I can barely remember 10 days ago, let alone two separate broadcasts from ten years ago. I don't watching different broadcasts (sister network or not) of the same competition anyway.
I think the fact that Gracie placed 2nd last weekend instead of 3rd is enough "proof" of who USFS is "behind". Granted, Gracie is extremely talented and has the most potential to do well this upcoming year (presentation and choreography issues aside) so USFS should absolutely be behind her, but when she skates poorly, she skates poorly. The judges held up those PCS so that she wouldn't fall to 3rd place. 2nd, 3rd, what difference would it have made? All I can think of is maybe it helps her confidence level to not lose to an additional American skater, but it's obviously not judges' job to be worrying about Gracie's confidence level in the middle of a competition. She botched many jumps, and someone else out-skated her that day (plus has programs that actually work, but that's besides the point).
I don't think it's THAT bad. There have been worse skaters. Obviously, though, it's not a program for her. I hate it when people criticize skaters for not being artistic enough and telling them that all they can do is jump, when it's very obvious they aren't artistic at all and should just showcase their jumping abilities. And then, you get some program like this, touting the skater for trying to make strides artistically.
That being said, this program doesn't fit her at all. She's a powerhouse. She doesn't need this kind of vehicle to present her abilities and instead it's just impeding showcasing her abilities as a skater. I don't know why she is making so many changes in an Olympic season. She is making some very questionable decisions, and I just wish she would maintain the status quo until after this season. She is already pretty much a lock for the team this year, and when it looks like your Olympic team chances are good, you shouldn't change a thing. She's not going to become a medal contender all of a sudden this season for the Olympic podium, and she (along with everyone else) knows that since Asada, Kim, and Kostner are light year ahead of everyone else.
Gracie (and team), if you are reading this, just please scrap this crap that Marina gave you and pick something else.
Cesario lost many points in the short program, but rightly beat her in the free skate. It was not Gracie's fault that Cesario lost points in spins and stuff that made her so far behind to get 2nd.
Gracie's PCS should rightfully be ahead of Hicks' - Hicks still needs to stretch, improve her posture and finish her moves. I also think Gracie should be ahead of Cesario overall, since Cesario was so far behind in the short and Cesario needed to improve her PCS by more than 7 points in the LP to beat Gracie (which means outscoring Gracie in PCS by 3 points or so). Given Gracie's speed, improvement in presentation and her way of capturing the audience's attention, that just wasn't gonna happen.
eta: just checked. ISU judges gave Gracie a PCS around 52 or 53 in the LP in 2011-2, and that was before Gracie became a big-time skater, and her program was pretty much jumpt to jump at that point.
Ashley has missed getting on the Olympic team and so can Gracie, and if she continues to skate like this, she will be left off.
I missed the part where they announced it was an all-US judging panel at Gold's recent competition.
So every single time a US skater been given a questionable result from an international judging panel, it's because the US judges were pushing a particular skater hard? How interesting. Can't wait to make a list of all the times the US judges have influenced an international panel for their favorite. This list will take weeks to compile, maybe even months!
Cesario gave away points in her spins, or she'd have beaten Gold overall. She didn't work the system as well as she should have, but let's blame it on Gracie anyway.
Whoops I didn't see jlai's post saying basically the same thing about why Cesario lost points. Great minds.
Rose ceremony? It will likely be Carroll who refuses the rose to Gracie. He doesn't need her 'caca' all over his hands. She seems to be a one-trick wonder (triples) with a marketable name & face. Her frenetic freeskate to 'Sleeping Beauty' with ZERO hint of musicality and artistry reminds me of Surya Bonaly's LPs in the '90s - she just jumped and waved arms, oblivious to whatever soundtrack was in the background. Frank Carroll is too classy a coach to try to step-in to miraculously 'fix' a mess, just because the NBC-USFSA joint powers are desperate. I'm amazed that he's even agreed to this try-out situation. Frank, dump her and RUN!
I just watched Gracie's programs and agree they don't suit her well at all. But at this point changing coaches AND both programs would be a tall order. Maybe retooling and working with what she has makes the most sense at this point (or just dumping one of the programs). How much of a difference would it really make to her PCS mark anyway? Cause in the end, it's all about the points. It doesn't matter what we think.
Anyway, best of luck to her, hopefully she gets it all sorted out and doesn't crack from the pressure.
I am reading the opinions of members that appear to echo the sentiments of my earlier post. So, to Robeye, Yasmin and others who attempted to insult me via reputation comments using profanity and a public post as well.....
SorryBoutIT. You were wrong to bark so loudly at a couple of opinions, echoed by numerous others, as well as attempting abusive responses to me directly. Save your vulgarity for your own self-depreciation.
This is a place for fans to discuss and it is not only a place for people to gush like babies over their faves. You guys have missed the entire point. PointBlankDOT.com
I think Frank will agree to coach Gracie if she agrees to move to California and train with him full time. She has a ton of talent and the USFSA wants him to do it. If the lure of coaching a top ladies skater again isn't enough, I think he will "take one for the team" (the USFSA).
At his age, she might just take Frank down with her. Can't imagine he wants to get involved in this messy situation.
I tend to agree that he might take Gracie on and I would actually like him to do it, but I don't think we should expect a complete transformation to occur in 3 1/2 months (in time for the US Championships). With her first GP coming up so soon, it would be very interesting to see just where he will immediately focus. Are there any sources as to when this tryout is supposed to occur?
It doesn't require a source. It's been published that they are working together this week, and then (presumably) a decision will be made. Perhaps next week sometime there will be more definitive news.
I believe that Gracie is a more likely bid for the 2018 Olympics.
If all falls into place, and she makes the 2014 team, wonderful; but, hopefully, she won't be "pushed" toward "expectations" she isn't ready to meet.
I have started to wonder if Gracie might want to go to Frank because she does not think he will accept a new top level student after the Olympics.
It's basically echoing what I've been saying about the whole Gracie-is-a-square-in-a-circle argument all thread long but it's relevant so I thought I'd post it here too.
I'm really interested to find out how Gracie's trial run is going with Frank. I'd love to be a fly on the wall at Toyota Sports Center this week Any news on that yet? And where is Ashley Wagner? We haven't heard anything from her for a while...how is her training with RA going?
I'm starting to wonder if this "tryout" is all a bunch of bs and they know darn well right now what the situation is?
Anything to get some more publicity for Gracie out of this.
Oh, I think Frank very much is the one deciding whether or not he wants her, not the other way around. He is in a similar situation as John Nicks, who decided he did not want to go to Sochi despite being the coach of the reigning National Champion.
Sorry...I have a hard time keeping up with everything...
At this point Gracie should just land as many jumps as possible because with those programs and no coach there isn't much she can do about them. Even with bad programs if she can land her jumps she will be going to the Olympics. But if Gracie doesn't make the Olympic team this will be just another sad story of a talented skater getting burned out way to soon and we will be talking about it for years to come just like we still talk about other skaters who we thought were future champions. I just hope she gets it together.
This is definitely true. (Her programs were not good last year either).
And even if she only lands three triples in her FS at Nationals, she will definitely be rewarded if Frank is at her side at K & C.
As I stated at the beginning of this thread, Frank has said he wants to retire. He only planned on coaching in L.A. this season due to Evan and Dennis. That is one reason I think he would be reluctant to take Gracie on. If he was younger, I think he take her in a heartbeat, so long as he was her one and only coach.
No problem. Hope it did not sound like I was chastising you. That is not what I intended.
Agree and I hope so too. I wonder if she should consider changing her jump layout though as the 2a seems to be a monkey on her back this season. She could open with back-to-back 3lz-3t and 3f-3t combos and then do the 3 jump combo with the 3s so that she can do both 2a on their own and not have to worry about doing the 3t after and miss out on big points should she mess up the jump. Plus, if she put in a 3f-3t, it would also be good training for the SP in case she has problems with the 3lz (seems like she has issues with her combo in the SP a fair amount), that way, if the lutz is shaky, she can ditch the combo and add a 3t to the 3f.
Anyways, I say getting a new SP is feasible at this point, but 2 new programs no way, or even a new SP and really re-worked FS is a stretch. She should just focus on the jumps and let her SS carry her PCS. Now that she has a reputation as a "star", her PCS will be strong provided she lands the jumps, the bigger risk is developing a headcase reputation because that actually could result in her PCS dropping if she bombs a few times in a row at international events. I don't think she's particularly artistic and I can tell she is trying to improve in that area, however, in her situation with all those changes going on and her programs being what they are, artistry is really the last thing she should be worrying about right now. Her jumps are impressive, everyone agrees on that. She's not really a medal contender for the Olympics anyways so she should stop letting people convince her that she is because in reality, she has a good chance at top 5 if she hits her jumps even if the artistry is the exact same as last season, and in order to medal she'd need her jumps AND a big boost in artistry and good programs so given her current state, that's too much to strive for and likely to lead to jump errors which will lower her placement. It would be one thing if she were Russian and had the advantage of skating on home ice, but she doesn't, so between Yuna, Carolina, and Mao, plus the 2 Russians with home ice benefit, and then Wagner, Murakami, Suzuki/Ando, maybe even Li or Osmond with a SOHL, top 5 is going to be tough and a medal is just unrealistic at this point.
If she wants to go into the Olympics as US number 1, she needs the jumps. Wagner is already stronger than her artistically, as are Gao and Nagasu (IMO, at least), but she has better jumps and harder combinations than all of them and that's how she can beat them. Plus with Hicks and Edmunds already having the same jump content and decent PCS, missing her jumps could make her vulnerable to those two. So really, just focus on your strengths Gracie. If she can deliver her jumps perfectly no one will begrudge her placement on the Olympic team.
I do agree about Gracie in comparison to Hicks. In looking back at the start order, it seems more likely that Cesario's PCS were held down rather than Gracie's marks super overinflated. Cesario essentially got trounced in PCS by Gracie, which makes no sense based on the quality of performances. But it's not like this was some big surprise...PCS are obviously in some instances used more as "placeholders" based on who the top skaters are. And I wish I knew why or how, but even in international events with international judges, there is a tendency for the "big name" home skaters to get "protected" when necessary.
I saw her LP live over the summer, and I think the changes they made to the jump layout in the middle detract from the impact of the program. I wonder how recent those changes were, too. This program doesn't need much, imo, to make it far superior to last year's effort. Just. stop. moving. the. arms! And the dress has to go. They've got her outfitted like she's going to a 1st grader's fairy princess tea party. It's demeaning.
I like Gracie but so true.
Are you planning on getting any more lamer than this?
Sigh. Obviously you and Robeye do not get it. "SorryBoutIT" and "PointBlankDOTcom" are a written expression of sentiments in a form similar to using an emoticon, only no graphic for it exists.
One thing posters can actually learn here other than skating is exposure to different ways people have of expressing themselves. Open your minds, as this is a safe place to express one's opinion and self.
Your complaint has been noted, and rejected. SorryBoutIT.
Back to G. Gold...... her arms in the programs are reminiscent of a wacky, inflatable blow up man in front of a car dealership. Fix this, and it is a start, but I think this whole process for her is FUBAR.