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Frank Carroll: The Skate Whisperer

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Yazmeen, Feb 23, 2014.

  1. Jasmar

    Jasmar Active Member

    Thanks for that link. I'd forgotten the rawness and depth of Frank's pain when this happened. No wonder he withdrew from making such intense personal connections with his subsequent skaters.
  2. Frau Muller

    Frau Muller #1 Dick Button Fan

    Maybe she can change her name to Gracie Pewter? Well, Gracie is good enough to challenge for a medal next month at Worlds, so she'll get closer to her real surname (Gold).
  3. jenniwren12

    jenniwren12 Active Member

    I wonder what Frank would have to say about Kori Ade's coaching style? Jason has said on multiple occasions that Kori is like a 2nd mom to him, and they're very close. She practically helped raise him, after all. I know every skater has different needs, but do you think Jason might benefit more from someone like Frank? Personally, I think Kori has done wonders for him.
  4. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

    I don't think Jason would benefit from someone like Frank. I think he needs a coach who is connected to his emotional needs. (He's the only skater I've ever heard of who gets/gives multiple -hugs- during a lesson.)

    Besides, USFS is going to be in a world of hurt, if they don't develop other coaches into elite coaches. Frank won't be around forever. They need more senior elite coaches. And unlike Zakrajsek, Ade doesn't seem to break her students (though I guess the sample size is smaller).
  5. berthesghost

    berthesghost Well-Known Member

    interesting. Whom do you think is potentially the heir to the lussi-fassi-carol crown? Or maybe we're just more about one hit wonders. Owen, brunet, laws, lever, ness, Callaghan, Wagner, etc... With such a depth of talent, do we perhaps not even need "the great one"?
  6. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

    I don't really think there is one, because for so long the trend has become to leave your coach to go to the elite coach.
    I think that Zakrajsek and Arturian might be at about that level right now. It looked like maybe Yuka and Jason would reach the top coach status, but I think that they faltered a bit.

    Either way, I don't think USFS should encourage coach hopping as much as they seem to. Perhaps collaboration should become more common.
  7. berthesghost

    berthesghost Well-Known Member

    i tend to agree, but i think it totally depends on the trajectory. Is all the hoping an uphill climb like it was for Fleming, or more wheel spinning like it seemed to be for bobeck. I actually think Ashley improved noticeable with each switch until the most recent.
  8. Dilng

    Dilng Well-Known Member

    I hope so! :)
  9. crs

    crs Well-Known Member

    well ,doesn't his new pupil brought her technical abilities to frank from another coach?
  10. Twizzler

    Twizzler Well-Known Member

    Do you think that Yuka and Jason will continue to coach together?
  11. overedge

    overedge Janny uber

    I'm not sure what is wrong with Jason's skating that would suggest he needs to go to another coach. He and Kori have an excellent relationship, and they have produced wonderful work (not just this year, but also previously). I don't know if you have read Manleywoman's interview with Kori, but it's very revealing about her style as a coach. It's about 2/3 of the way down the page here:
  12. mag

    mag Well-Known Member

    Wow! Jason is very fortunate to have a coach like Kori and Kori is fortunate to have a student like Jason. What a team!!
  13. jenniwren12

    jenniwren12 Active Member

    I heard somewhere that Jason was being pressured to switch coaches once he left Juniors, but that was probably a rumor? Jason has thrived with Kori's approach, but it's interesting to think about his trajectory if he was to switch to someone like Frank.
  14. judiz

    judiz Well-Known Member

    Some skaters need a gentle nurturing coach and some do better with a tough hands on approach. Johnny did very well with Priscilla until he outgrew her and no longer needed a surrogate mother at the rink. On the other hand, Brian had a nurturing coach and was able to maintain a professional relationship with her throughout his entire career.
  15. overedge

    overedge Janny uber

    His competitive record is pretty strong. I'm still not sure what you think switching to someone like Frank would have changed. If he had been pushed to progress more quickly (and I personally don't think his progress has been too slow), it might have had the opposite effect of shortening his career or having a few great results and then burnout.
  16. jenniwren12

    jenniwren12 Active Member

    Just harmless speculation. The What If game. Like, if Mirai had been coached by Kori, or by a coach with a similar approach, I think she'd do quite well. Jason with Frank still would have climbed the ranks, but there probably would be some burnout.
  17. LilJen

    LilJen Reaching out with my hand sensitively

    Dudes, he sang about being told he needed to move.

    I'm pretty sure Matt Savoie was encouraged to go elsewhere and move away from home, and elected not to. You could argue that his coach (Linda Branan) didn't have the political pull to get him further than he went, which is probably true, but she wasn't shy about sending him to jump specialists and to Tom Dickson for choreography.
  18. IceJunkie

    IceJunkie Well-Known Member

    If you listen to Allison Manley's podcast at the 2011 U.S. Nationals (which I did a few days ago on a road trip) Kori says Jason was pressured to get another coach, and he and his parents stuck with her. It was very emotional and all I could think about was how proud they both most be after this year's success. It was such a pleasant coincidence to retrospectively hear her speak so thoughtfully after seeing them at the Olympics.
  19. NadineWhite

    NadineWhite Well-Known Member

    Loved reading your post, IceJunkie. :) I've always maintained such high respect for those skaters that never left their original coach. Instead they stayed with them from the very beginning to the very end (it's quite emotional and a testament to their bond and speaks so much of loyalty & sacrifice!!!! Temptation is a tool of the diablo imho). The following skaters stuck with their original coach through thick & thin no matter what, both the ups and the downs:

    Evgeni Plushenko
    Brian Boitano
    Sarah Hughes
    Kristi Yamaguchi

    Feel free to add more, those are the only ones I could think of off the top of my head, lol. :)
  20. canbelto

    canbelto Well-Known Member

    Paul Wylie and Nancy Kerrigan were always with the Scotvolds?
  21. berthesghost

    berthesghost Well-Known Member

    No. Nancy switched to the scotvolds at 16. Paul had been with Carlo Fassi since he was about 10 and won jr worlds with him. He was also pairs skating at the time and being coached by nicks for that. He went to the scotvolds originally just for jump help, but then stayed full time.

    Almost no one literally only has one coach. Usually people mean situations like with plushy, who switched to Mishin at 11 and stayed for his entire significant career. But he literally started skating at 4 and had other coaches for those first 7 years. Same with Hughes and Wagner.
  22. overedge

    overedge Janny uber

    Sarah Hughes only started working with Robin Wagner in the late 90s. I think before that she was coached by Bonni Retzkin, who was later Emily Hughes' coach.
  23. kwanette

    kwanette Fetalized since 1998

    Robin had been Sarah's choreographer since 94, then became her coach in 98, according to Wikipedia.
  24. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

    I do agree with you here- most skaters have a 'fun' coach when they start skating, and the time does come they need to change to a "competition" coach.

    But if you have a coach who has taken you from tots to senior, there is no reason to switch just because everyone switches and now you need an elite coach. You should only switch if there is an actual issue your coach can't handle.
  25. judiz

    judiz Well-Known Member

    I think it also depends in whether or not the coach is willing to go to competitions or just wants to coach for fun.
  26. NYScorp6

    NYScorp6 Member

    I also recall hearing stories years ago about Carlo Fassi sending his skaters to other coaches to focus on different aspects of figure skating. Some returned to him others didn't. If I remember more specifics I will post them.
  27. bardtoob

    bardtoob Former Choreographer for Anna Maria Tragikova

    I have also heard vice versa. I've heard coaches sent skaters to Fassi for help with figures, and the skater would sometimes never leave.
  28. lahaa968

    lahaa968 Active Member

    I'm only sad now because I think Gracie, now with Frank, won't compete with more technical meat than she has now (7 triples/3Z3T,2A3T,3Lo,3Lz,3F,3S)...and she has so much talent!

    Her practice 3A's are insane and I would not put a quad past her either.

    Brb crying :wuzrobbed
  29. redfiretrees

    redfiretrees Figure Skating Fan in the Tropics

    I hope not because Polina and for sure the next generation of Russian "wonderkids" will have higher technical content soon. But I would love for her to improve and work on other aspects of her skating first. Like improving artistry (since most of her critics point this out the most) and musicality (could this be learned or taught?).
  30. berthesghost

    berthesghost Well-Known Member

    sorry, I don't get what you are saying. 7 triples with a 3z/3t IS the highest tech any lady not named Mao is doing right now. They can only do 7 triples max and considering how many ladies are opting for the easier 3t/3t I really don't get all the doom and gloom about how one of the youngest ladies with the highest tech difficulty is in real danger of being out skated soon. Is it sarcasm?