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Figure Skating Champions SURVIVOR: Ladies ROUND 8

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by SamuraiK, Jul 1, 2012.

Who is the weakest link among these past champions?

Poll closed Jul 6, 2012.
  1. Lu Chen

    137 vote(s)
  2. Michelle Kwan

    21 vote(s)
  3. Irina Slutskaya

    43 vote(s)
  4. Mao Asada

    120 vote(s)
  5. Yuna Kim

    29 vote(s)
  1. RumbleFish

    RumbleFish New Member

    Yuna Kim has suddenly become a popular choice in this poll.

    A pleasent welcome back presents by maobots? :scream:
  2. kwanatic

    kwanatic Well-Known Member

    Good luck with that. :lol:

    My sentiments exactly.

    Irina's skating is like nails on a chalkboard IMO and she's light-years away from Lulu and Mao when it comes to elegance, artistry and presentation...BUT even with Irina's ugly style of skating, her longevity and accomplishments make her off limits until the last two rounds of voting for me.

    This is a tough vote between Lulu and Mao...toughest so far IMO. As VIETgrl said, the only thing that gives me pause in my voting is Mao inconsistencies over the past few years. At a glance Mao has the more impressive resume (2 world titles, Olympic silver); but when you actually look at it, you see that Lulu was a much more consistent competitor, landing on the podium in 4 consecutive appearances at worlds. Mao hasn't cracked the top 5 at worlds these last two years. As far as artistry goes Lulu is superior in terms of programs and depth of emotion while performing; Mao wins in terms of aesthetics though: body type, posture, line, extension and flexibility, and that ethereal quality. In terms of technique, Chen is superior; in terms of difficulty, Mao wins...this is a tough call.

    IMO, what really hurt Mao was her stint with Tarasova as her primary coach. TAT's style for Mao was the antithesis of Mao's natural style; everything about her during those years, from her programs to her costumes, seemed forced and disingenuous. She managed some amazing technical displays in terms of her 3A but the rest of her jumps as well as her overall appeal and the effect of her skating hit a low point that she has yet to fully recover from.

    The only reason I would vote Chen right now is b/c Mao still has some time to redeem herself and it's well known that she is capable of some truly beautiful and amazing skating. BUT given her current state, the increased level of competition in the field this year, plus the news that Yu-Na is returning, I don't know how much more Mao can accomplish. Just b/c you have the ability doesn't mean you can deliver it when the time comes. Right now, Mao isn't living up to the potential everyone saw back in 2005-2006...

    Decisions, decisions...IDK who I'm voting for yet...
  3. berthesghost

    berthesghost Well-Known Member

    ^ but Mao has twice as many votes, so are there twice as many Kimbots here now? :lol:

    As laughable as I find it that Kim has more votes than Irina, it's kinda insane to think of Mao as more than twice as weak as Irina. Where are Irina's multiple 3Xs? :rolleyes:

    I've kinda made peace with the lack of Lulu love. She never got no respect from the judges, nor the fans apparently. Despite what the judges (skating, judy, or otherwise) say, I think she should have been 93 WC, could have easily won 94 had she not been injured, and should have won 96 making her a 4 time WC. But, that's not what happened, so.... off with her head! :p
  4. l'etoile

    l'etoile New Member

    I'm so baffled at this sentence that I'm unable to make any sense of it. :confused:
  5. Mafke

    Mafke Well-Known Member

    Trust me, you're better off that way.:shuffle:
  6. berthesghost

    berthesghost Well-Known Member

    I'll try:

    direct translation: "though some other skaters have also lost their mother, they haven't gone through half of the other stuff Mao did, because losing her mother is only one of the many things she has been through.."

    real translation: "Mao has it soooooooooo much harder than anyone else, but because she is a genius on ice and the bestest ever figure skater, like EVER! she is better because she has it sooooooo much harder but still manages to get out of bed and go skate, so we should all worship at her altar, as she is obviously a God among mere mortals!!!!!"

    OT: but didn't Joannie go thru a similar retweeking of her jump tech that caused a set back before really breaking thru, or am i misremembering ?
  7. invierno

    invierno Member

    My sentiments exactly. I voted for Mao because of her inconsistency, technically issues, not so many memorable programs and limited range of interpretation.
  8. Amy03

    Amy03 Active Member

    As laughable as I find it that Kim has more votes than Irina, it's kinda insane to think of Mao as more than twice as weak as Irina. Where are Irina's multiple 3Xs? :rolleyes:

    well i would rather say Mao who is ten times stronger then irena in every way, she unlike irena has showed technical content that irena at her highest peak wouldn't dream of including, and I don't understand how ANYBODY can justify irena beeing anywhere near Mao! and through Mao hasn't been a senoir skater for as long as irena she still has accomplished everything that irena has, just on a greater scale, and with a tougher system!

    and for anybody who still thinks that irena had the slightest chance of winning against Mao watch 15 year old Mao crushing irena at the 2005 GPF, just look at the big gab there is between there technical content, and notice how every jump of Mao is done effortlesly without any hesitation and please compare it to irena!

  9. berthesghost

    berthesghost Well-Known Member

    I find Mao and Irina pretty evenly matched, and flipped back and forth between the two as I consider them the two weakest we have left.

    Irina is done, Mao is still competing, so it's weird to compare. Irina skated a lot longer, but was way more inconsistent IMO. Both have an Oly silver and 2 WCs, but Irina has placements as low as 7th and 9th at worlds, compared to Mao's 6th at lowest. Irina is queen of the GPF, and skated there a lot longer than Mao has yet, but Irina did finish off the podium there, which Mao has yet to do.

    Mao's programs may be more "forgettable" but Irina's were more unforgettable in a bad way, like so cringeworthy you're still laughing about them years later... feed the chickens, grab your head, etc...

    Irian had better jump tech on most jumps, but then again, Mao has been a star with regard to keeping the 3x relevant for ladies.
  10. l'etoile

    l'etoile New Member

    ^^ That was from Mao's earliest career which obviously and unfortunately didn't pan out consistently or improve very much whereas Irina was able to keep up her technical ability very well and consistently throughout her entire career. What does that tell you?

    Joannie did have some held-back time because she was reworking her jumps. IIRC, it was the flutz she was working on and the timing of work-done was just amazing so accordingly with the Olympics. Can you believe that this girl had a lutz problem at all?
  11. kwanatic

    kwanatic Well-Known Member

    It took her the better part of two years but she nailed it. That's the proof that it can be done.

    I honestly think if Mao had stuck with the corrections she started making before switching to Tarasova she'd have a clean lutz by now. Rather than keep at it, they stripped it from her programs midway through that first season and never put it back in. That was 2 years of reconstruction down the drain. Plus, I think having TAT as a main coach was stupid. Mao needed a technical coach to help her train her jumps...I don't really feel that's TAT's specialty.

    Ah well...bygones...
  12. attyfan

    attyfan Well-Known Member

    IMO, Kim and Asada should be removed from the list. Recent announcements from both make it clear that they are not ending their competitive careers, and, it is impossible to compare the records of two skaters still competing with those of other skaters whose competitive careers are over.
  13. Jarrett

    Jarrett Firebird for worlds!

    Sorry Mao.
  14. lauravvv

    lauravvv Well-Known Member

    Then skaters like Plushenko, Chan, Takahashi, Virtue/Moir, Davis/White, Savchenko/Szolkowy and Pang/Tong shouldn't have been in those polls to begin with. But they are. As were Ando and Kostner. Those polls are not just about skaters who have ended their competitive careers, no matter how wrong it could seem. So, I see no point in you statement.

    Oh, I forgot to add that I voted for Lu Chen. I really love her artistry, but, unfortunately, this poll is not called 'The most artistic female champion'.
  15. bartek

    bartek Active Member

    OMG, Irina would have never had that 9th place in her career if she hadn't gone againts her doctors' decision and skated in Dortmund. She was clearly without any chances for a medal, she skated just because she wanted to be on the ice. But then what a comeback she did winning EVERYTHING in 2004-2005 season.

    In my opinion there is now way Irina should go before Asada and Kim. Irina consistently performed full set of triples and never left out anyone. Her longevity and accomplishments speak for themselves as do her jumps and spins. Kim struggled to land her loop and Asada strggled with her lutz. Besides, they have rarely skated a clean long program. Irina did that more than 15 times in her career, Kim just twice.

    I don't laugh at Irina's program at all. I find her exuberance and power in skating her own form of artistry and she's definitely very ejoyable to watch.
  16. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

    Mao's competitive career for all intents and purposes is over. She is a zombie of her former self at this point, and I could see her suffering the indignity of even missing her own countries Olympic team for 2014, especialy with Ando now back.

    Kim's doesnt have to be over, in fact if she gets her act together she could easily win the 2013 Worlds and 2014 Olympics which IMO would elevate her career even above Kwan's if she pulls it off, but if she comes back like she did in pitiful display at the 2011 Worlds where despite nearly winning over an abysmal field she looked like she had trained about 1 week only and was going through a half assed practice run through in competition, she might as well not bother.
  17. berthesghost

    berthesghost Well-Known Member

    Yeah, but Mao lost her mom! :p There's isn't one of the 12 from this list who don't have some reason for why they skated poorly when they did.
    as I said before
    1. "longevity" is an unfair comparison toward others who are still skating and will be for at least 2 more years, if not more. Irina went to 9 worlds. Mao has been to 6 thus far, 7 had she not been hindered by age restrictions which didn't exist during Irina's time.
    2. How can you have a "full set" of triples when you can't do a 3x? You can't. 6.0 and COP are different, and even Kwan ditched the loop under COP, so... Yeah, Mao needs the 3x because of all the other jumps she leaves out, but I don't disregard the fact that she can do one. They both skated under the rules at the time. Irina was 1st to do 2 3/3 lp, Mao the 1st to do 2 3x lp. I don't consider one way more difficult than the other. They're both impressive 1sts.
    different strokes, different folks. Speaking of stroking, I'm glad you enjoyed all of those back pumping crossovers. Somebody had to. :p
  18. bartek

    bartek Active Member

    Right, somebody had to and the judges were the ones who lived up to that statement giving rina all her wins and favouring her over Michelle :lol:.

    Of course I meant full set of triples without the axel. The fact that Mao had to put two triple axels because she couldn't do the lutz and didn't want to do the salchow (or whatever problem she had with salchow) doesn't really show her in good light. Irina didn't have to leave out any triple throuout her whole career.
  19. taf2002

    taf2002 zexy demon

    :eek: You're kidding, right?
  20. Macassar88

    Macassar88 Well-Known Member

    He has great jumps, skating skills and musicality. Once he gets better choreography, he'll be set.
  21. berthesghost

    berthesghost Well-Known Member

    :lol: is right! In 9 tries, Irina only won worlds twice. Kwan is a 5 time WC, because the judges prefer Irina. :rofl:
    Sorry, but this makes no sense to me. Either you have a full set of 6 different triples or you don't. But in your eyes, if Irina leaves out the 3x, she still has a full set. A full set for her that is. But if Mao leaves out the 3z, she doesn't have a full set, even if it is a full set for her. And if she does two 3x, which is the hardest jump or all, but Irina does a 3t and 3s, the two easiest jumps, then Irina has harder tech content? Say what?!?! What about 98 when Irina was doing two 3/3s instead of 2 3z because the 3z had gone MIA for her? So, Irina losing the 3z is ok, but Mao losing the 3z in unforgivable? The way COP is now, they are pressured to leave out unsure jumps. This was not the case during Irina's time, and Mao is hardly Laura Lipisto, or even Caro Kostner. She's the only woman on this list with a 3x and surely that must count for something.
  22. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

    The next 2 rounds will be predictable as well. Chen is clearly going this round, and Asada next. Kim, Kim, Slutskaya, the predictable final 3 is where the fireworks will really begin, and nobody knows what will happen there. I predict the ubers of all 3 will come out of the droves though. It will be interesting which the Kwan ubers will choose to attack first Slutskaya or Kim. Will they stand up for Slutskaya and make a united front for the Kwan-Slutskaya era, or will they instead push hard to get rid of whom many of them refer to for years as the "overrated" Slutskaya. Likewise the Kim ubers between Slutskaya and Kwan, neither whom she competed with directly, and probably doesnt inspire the same passion in them as the wars vs Asada or even Ando do.
  23. UGG

    UGG Well-Known Member

    I will be voting for Kim over Slutskaya. :D

    Anyway...bye bye Mao.
  24. berthesghost

    berthesghost Well-Known Member

    or... maybe people will just continue to vote how they truly feel, and others will continue to freak out that somebody might actually have a different opinion, so accuse them of cheating. :lol:

    Anywho, where are all of these insane hordes of Kimbots that people insist exist? Only a piddly 20 votes and Mao could be gone today! Come on insane hordes of Kimbots, get to it! . I know you exist because I read it on FSU and everyone knows FSU is only filled with gospel truth! :lol:
  25. kwanette

    kwanette Fetalized since 1998

  26. mtnskater

    mtnskater Well-Known Member

  27. allezfred

    allezfred Master/Mistress of Sneer Staff Member

    You heard it here first folks! judgejudy has a great knack of predicting exactly the opposite of what actually happens. :lol:
  28. Alex Forrest

    Alex Forrest Banned Member

    Don't know about that, but I'm in JJ's corner. I don't think the next two years will benefit Mao. She had her best years four and five years ago. This will end in a very ugly manner for her.
  29. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Yuzuru, Medvedeva, T&M, Shibs, P&C

    I have learned to never count anyone out, particularly someone as tough as Mao is mentally. Irina had two really bad years in her career. Nobody could have predicted her performance at the 2005 worlds, after her illness. Nobody could have predicted her strong performances in 2000 after she missed making the Russian world team in 1999.
  30. berthesghost

    berthesghost Well-Known Member

    True that! I used to call Irina The Terminator. Just when you thought you were finally rid of her, she'd come back even stronger. :lol: