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Downton Abbey--Upstairs/Downstairs, Stiff Upper Lips, and Tea!

Discussion in 'Off The Beaten Track' started by Matryeshka, Jan 23, 2011.

  1. Spareoom

    Spareoom Well-Known Member

    Oh, definitely. Mrs. Pattmore should be shot for more or less forcing Daisy into that situation. I was terrified that after she said "I Do", William was going to make a miraculous recovery and then poor Daisy would be stuck. Pressuring someone to marry is the same no matter what, even if he is going to die soon...you still have the living party to think about and it's clear that this whole situation is really going to affect Daisy for a long time.

    It makes me sad because Daisy/William was a favorite of mine in the first season, and I had hoped that it would have a legitimate growth in the second. And it might have, if everyone had let Daisy take things at her own pace. But the second she was pressured into doing something she didn't want to, forget it. She was never going to love William that way, no matter how awesome he was.
  2. Matryeshka

    Matryeshka Well-Known Member

    Most people "downstairs" were still quite religious at the time. I can easily understand Daisy not wanting to lie to a minister or have the feeling she was being dishonest before God. I think that subtext was there. While I am :wurobbed he died, I did not appreciate how he basically amd the kitchen staff manipulated her into being his sweetheart from the beginning. You can't manufacture love. She was quite justified--and right--to initially refuse. I would have.
  3. soxxy

    soxxy Guest

  4. Lorac

    Lorac Well-Known Member

  5. Wyliefan

    Wyliefan Well-Known Member

    I love the thought of epic battles between Maggie Smith and Shirley MacLaine. :D Team Maggie right here!!
  6. Carmen Ovsiannikov

    Carmen Ovsiannikov Well-Known Member

    Thanks Martryeshka.

    Your explanation does make sense and I admit I was caught up in the fact that William was dying and it would have been cruel to tell him the truth on his deathbed.

    Honestly, I think he should have been set straight before he went off to war in the first place; that would have prevented Daisy from being pressured to become a widow. ITA that the rest of the kitchen staff shouldn't have encouraged William before he left but since Daisy waited to finally speak up (she was most likely afraid of the reaction) I'm glad she did go through with it.

    Maggie Smith is making me :rofl:. I was impressed that Lady Grantham used her influence to get William home so that he could die with his family around.
  7. Artemis@BC

    Artemis@BC Well-Known Member

    I was loving the Dowager in last night's episode too -- even above and beyond Maggie Smith's usual fabulousness. The way she fought for William, esp. with the vicar ("Need I remind you that your living is in my son's gift" -- very Jane Austen!), and then her attendance at the wedding, was so sweet. Though I did wonder if there's a bit more we don't know about. When she fought earlier to keep both William and Molesly out of the war, it seemed as though it was part paternalism and part not wanting to disrupt the households. This time ... part of me thinks she was just caught up in the spirit of "we all do what we can to help in wartime" ... but I'm also wondering if there's something else.

    The Ethel storyline is just boring. The only reason I can think for them writing it is that they wanted to do something with the maid-has-baby-out-of-wedlock storyline that seems to be a requirement for that era -- and it wouldn't have worked Anna or Gwen. However the one upside of that storyline is that it showed, again, how completely wonderful Mrs Hughes is.
  8. Bostonfan

    Bostonfan Well-Known Member

    I've read spoilers for the whole season, and I will only say that Ethel's storyline isn't going away, but IMHO will continue to be boring based on what I read. I am less enthused when they have characters/plots functioning outside of the house on a regular basis. I prefer to stay nestled in the world that is Downton Abbey. :)
  9. my little pony

    my little pony war crawling into canada

    i had kind of forgotten that cora is american, i dont want her brash american mother to visit. :drama:

    while the whole daisy/william storyline was a lot of WTF (what does he see in her, what is mrs patmore thinking no matter how well intentioned, fake wedding really), william was right that being his war widow with a small pension might be her only opportunity in life.

    is ethel keeping this baby because she thinks black mustache might pay up eventually? even if she wants it, it doesnt seem to be possible to support herself and that baby without help. she's dragging herself down and me with her.
  10. danceronice

    danceronice Corgi Wrangler

    I think it's partially she's old-school aristocracy and looking out for their people is what they do-at least the good ones. (See Fitzwilliam Darcy a hundred years earlier and how the people around Pemberly, like Elizabeth's aunt, thought of him.) It's not ALL about oppressing the masses. And I think some of it was she's old enough she's seen wars before, she KNOWS they aren't a cakewalk, while the 'young folks' really have no idea what's coming. Combine all that with her being an inveterate busybody ;) and she's going to pull strings.

    Which is awesome because we get scenes like the vicar learning that you do not mess with Dame Maggie Smith. She will pwn you. Without even raising her voice.

    I also read the spoilers on Ethel. Yeah, I'm not seeing it getting any more exciting.

    And you KNOW Mrs. Bates is evil. Even Thomas is like "You shouldn't have written her" and O'Brien agrees. As TV Tropes puts it, Even Evil Has Standards.
    Too bad for her, for the moment, Sir Richard is a Magnificent Bastard she can't match.
  11. Civic

    Civic New Member

    Wasn't William an only child? I seem to recall his explaining to Daisy that was why his father didn't want him to enlist in the army. This may have been why the Dowager and the Earl wanted to keep him out of combat. I wonder if his type of injury actually happened during World War I? The shrapnel from the shell didn't get him...he didn't have a mark on him. It was the shock waves from the explosion that severely damaged his lungs. I had assumed that this type of injury was a more recent phenomenon but what do I know.
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2012
  12. Artemis@BC

    Artemis@BC Well-Known Member

    Well, as a frequent watcher of Mythbusters ;), I know the shockwave is often the deadliest part of an explosion. Even the relatively less energetic explosions of that era.

    It made it extra poignant, though -- the fact that he looked fine, but was still dying.
  13. Civic

    Civic New Member

    :lol:It would be nice if the writers gave us more insight into Vera Bates' motives. We can see how much she hates her husband but they haven't told us why. I mean the man went to prison to protect her, what else does she want from him? Why did she still that regimental silver in the first place?
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2012
  14. Coco

    Coco Well-Known Member

    I loved the Dowager on the phone - that was an epic scene.
  15. ioana

    ioana Well-Known Member

    Definitely not. I even thought someone like Anna -if she weren't too busy mooning over Bates- would have been better for him. I really like Rose Leslie who played her and I hope they manage to show what happened to Gwen next season. I know the actress will be busy with Game of Thrones :)kickass: Ygritte!), but hopefully they can work something out.
  16. PRlady

    PRlady flipflack

    Sniff. I just watched it on Tivo. It didn't do my already-sore nose and eyes any good. :(

    I haven't been spoiled so I'm dying to know if Matthew is going to miraculously recover his ability to....make an heir....before the end of the season. Of course my interest is only dynastic....
  17. AshleyN

    AshleyN Well-Known Member

    Yeah, this was basically the saddest episode ever.:(

    The silver lining I suppose is that it was a great showcase for my two favourite characters - Mary and Violet. I really hope Michelle Dockery gets some awards attention for this season.
  18. ChelleC

    ChelleC Well-Known Member


    LOL, of course your interest is only dynastic :lol:
  19. jlai

    jlai Title-less

    I got the feeling that they keep bring back Vera when the writers run out of plots or something.
  20. BittyBug

    BittyBug Dispirited

    Are you sure you don't just have a cold? ;) (I thought that was one of the best lines of the night.)

    Agree that this ep was a total tear jerker. Either that or we're turning into saps.

    There's something about Mrs. Bates that reminds me of Margaret Hamilton in the Wizard of Oz. "I'll get you yet, my pretty." :lol:
  21. my little pony

    my little pony war crawling into canada


    she is like her more attractive, equally bitter, less green sister
  22. Cachoo

    Cachoo Well-Known Member

    I keep looking at her because I can't believe she was the same person as the Queen (one of them) in "The Tudors." And I have not looked on IMDB yet but was she in "The Commitments?" I just saw that recently and she looked so much like one of the singers. ( I loved their affirmation: "I'm black and I'm proud")
  23. danceronice

    danceronice Corgi Wrangler

    Maria Doyle Kennedy. She played Katherine of Aragon, Henry VIII's first wife. Both series, she's the unwanted first wife, but Katherine was definitely the wronged party and Vera...not so much. I think the implication is she's mentally unstable (like nowdays would probably be on half the psychopharmaceuticals on the market, and she does sound at least bipolar) and at first Bates was protecting her, but now he really just wants rid of her. I'm not getting why it's taking so long at this point--if she WAS unfaithful then in 1918 he's got easy grounds for an uncontested divorce.
  24. victoriajh

    victoriajh trying to ignore rod and find the eurosport feed

    YES she was in the committments! that is where i recognised her from good job!
    i just want the first mrs bates GONE! i so love anna and bates :D
  25. Carmen Ovsiannikov

    Carmen Ovsiannikov Well-Known Member

    Wow, for some reason I didn't recognize Maria Doyle Kennedy.

    Bittybug, as long as there is never a scene of Vera riding a bike I'll be fine. :lol:
  26. victoriajh

    victoriajh trying to ignore rod and find the eurosport feed

    They credit her as Maria Doyle I guess the Kennedy got added ..... Interesting how she was nuisance first wife in downton and Tudors hey!! Lol
    I just loved th Tudors, jrm is really lovely....
  27. Impromptu

    Impromptu Well-Known Member

    One of my favorite movies... I watch it again at least once a year. And she played Natalie, who had the best voice of the women.
  28. Peaches LaTour

    Peaches LaTour Well-Known Member

    I am excited about the prospect of Cora's mother arriving on the scene. I always thought it was very odd that there was never any mention of her family - not even a hint as to the source of her family's wealth that qualified Cora as a marital prospect for Sir Robert. Also, maybe they will introduce some rich American as a possible husband for Edith.

    Can't see Sybil being happy with her marital prospect....

    Mrs. Patmore was very wrong to push Daisy into any type of situation with William when she, Mrs. Patmore, knew Daisy was against it. I give Daisy alot of credit for expressing her feelings while being bullied by her superior. Sweet of William to think of Daisy and the pension she would receive from him as his widow.

    Oh, barf, more of Ethel's whining in the future????
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2012
    flutzilla1 and (deleted member) like this.
  29. vesperholly

    vesperholly Well-Known Member

    Cora mentioned something once about sending Mary to New York to stay with her aunt. Perhaps that's who Shirley MacLaine is?
  30. Artemis@BC

    Artemis@BC Well-Known Member