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"Don't Touch My Junk!"

Discussion in 'Off The Beaten Track' started by soxxy, Nov 16, 2010.

  1. Anita18

    Anita18 Well-Known Member

    Right. The TSA rules depend on the individual who's doing the searching. So you could have some pedophile feeling up children because he can and then say it's for everyone's safety. :shuffle:

    BoingBoing just linked to a story about a flight attendant who was asked to remove her prosthetic breast. She's a breast cancer survivor, and obviously just wants to do her job and now she'll be asked to do that for the rest of her career?

  2. WindSpirit

    WindSpirit OmnipresentAdmeanistrator

    I read about it. TSA said she shouldn't have been asked to remove it. There are also written rules about prostheses/medical devices/etc. on their website. Still no word about what constitutes the pat-down and whether they're supposed to put their hands in our underwear. Or anywhere else.
  3. skatingfan5

    skatingfan5 Past Prancer's Corridor

    From the NYTimes article I linked to in my previous post:
    So it is perhaps OK for the agents to put their hands inside a passenger's underwear, as long as you don't look? :confused: And possibly wearing a skirt (or a kilt for guys) rather than pants will help ... since they aren't supposed to reach inside a skirt -- but nothing is said about reaching inside the waistband of someone's pants. :rolleyes: If I seem to be posting ridiculous guesses, it's because we can't really know what the specific guidelines are, because of those oft-cited "security reasons."
  4. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

    IIRC, security personnel at Ben-Gurion work for Israel Airports Authority, and there are other security forces present. I think in other countries, the security is handled by El-Al. You do not have to be at the airport three hours early, either, but it is recommended during busy periods (e.g. summer vacation).

    It is true that Arab people often undergo more rigorous screening procedures than Jewish-Israelis, though AFAIK it still nowhere near what's being reported from the US these days. There is no ban on liquids and no shoe removal, and we don't have to get naked pictures taken. I'm sure there's lots of behind the scenes stuff going on, but I wouldn't know what exactly... it does seem to run fairly smoothly and rather fast compared to other airports I've been in. I've never been able to spot security people on the flights, but I know they're there.

    The main issue that make this impossible to implement in the US is the differences in scale. Ben-Gurion is Israel's only major airport and has fewer flights than many US airports. Also, I suspect some of the profiling techniques would be challenged in the US, though how anyone could think that it's better to grope random 3 year olds is beyond me.

    No, that's incorrect. It is highly selective, and the security personnel are very well-trained, but it's usually post-army people, for whom it's considered quite an attractive job while they save up for their obligatory trip to South America/the far east.
  5. zippy

    zippy Active Member

    I assume you mean me here, and if you read what I wrote I said 5th grader, not moron, and I don't happen to think 5th graders are morons. However, I am sure most fifth graders would be delighted to tell you where one might stick an object where it would elude both scanners and pat-downs. Probably most morons would be able to figure that one out too, though. Unfortunately I suspect most Al Qaeda terrorists are not morons and would be able to think of many ways to get around the system. Meanwhile the several most recent threats all involve cargo, and we sit here with our thumbs up our a**es groping three year olds and virtually stripsearching granny, so let's see who qualifies as the moron in this scenario...
    WindSpirit and (deleted member) like this.
  6. PRlady

    PRlady flipflack

    The profiling at B-G is much worse than you are aware of. (Or than I would be aware of, since as a middle-aged Jewish woman with an American passport I scoot right through the security line.) South Asians and Europeans are often asked much more searching questions than Americans, especially young Euros who might have been volunteering in the territories. And they have gotten stuck for hours if something doesn't seem right to security, missing flights and with no help getting onto the next ones.

    And that doesn't even begin to describe what happens to Arabs, either with Israeli citizenship or from the territories. Our board members have had their laptops trashed, their suitcases upended in public and spilled out onto the floor, humiliating and loud questions posed publicly, been flatly forbidden to get on planes -- and these are academics with credentials, imagine what happens to Muhammed Sixpack.

    The young women who ask the preliminary questions are polite but thorough and are obviously well-trained. Yes, I can bring water through and don't have to take my shoes off (or have my shampoo chemically tested as happens at Dulles from time to time :rolleyes:) but that's because of who I am. The profiling at Ben-Gurion has been the subject of lawsuits and there are now human rights observers from time to time there, as there are at the checkpoints...

    I'm so torn on this subject. Profiling makes sense, but it can also lure security into a false sense of let-the-blond-grandmom-through when she's actually an Al Qaeda agent. It's so unfair to the millions of innocent Muslims and/or South Asians who fly. I don't like the full-body scan either, especially when cargo isn't being x-rayed, but I guess at the end of the day I prefer it to blatant and selective violation of civil rights that goes with profiling.
  7. PrincessLeppard

    PrincessLeppard Holding Alex Johnson's Pineapple

    We agree on this. The invasive pat-downs would bother me a lot (key word: invasive). But the full body scanner just isn't an issue for me. I realize it is for other people. (at least the picture part; again, the health issue is much more troublesome for me.)

    That's also what I'd tell my students, btw.
  8. kedrin

    kedrin Well-Known Member

    See, I don't like profiling, either, I but consider the strip-search or be molested choice also to be a blatant (and selective, if some of the stories I've heard are true about more young attractive women selected than men, for example) violation of civil rights.
  9. Tessa

    Tessa Member

    When coming home from Vegas this week they did an EXTRA security screening at the gate. I got patted down -- yes, the full monty. The only thing good about it was that I got to jump the line and board with the elite mileage peeps. :confused:

    I hate the plastic baggie more than the pat down I think. I can't cram all my liquids and creams into that quart-size baggie.

    eta the weirdest thing was that after the lady patted me down, she wiped her gloves with what looked like a little cotton circle then tested it in a machine. What are they looking for? Drugs, explosives? Both?
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2010
  10. Jodi

    Jodi With bells on.

    Quite. You can't say that anything that makes us safer is acceptable and then just dismiss the question of whether an internal search would be OK as too ridiculous to even consider. If there is in fact something that you regard as too much of an intrusion then it's only about where you're drawing the line and you need to explain why you believe these scans/searches specifically fall within the bounds of what is reasonable.

    (Not aimed at anyone specifically so much as a general frustration at the way this stuff always goes. It's usually me asking people who think any amount of CCTV is OK "if it makes us safer" (without addressing whether it actually does) whether they'd be OK with it in their homes to make the same point that it's all a matter of where you draw the line to get the right balance between security and privacy.)
  11. PAskate

    PAskate New Member

    I'm also a breast cancer survivor. At my local airport (where i know all of the screeners), they confirm that there are procedures against this type of behavior. However, I have been subjected to special searches by male TSA screeners at LAX due to the compression sleeve that I must wear due to lymphadema risks. The female screener that had to do special search is telling him the whole time that it's not right and that anyone can see that there is no way that I am smuggling anything inside my compression sleeve. There are idiots everywhere. The problem is that the US has become so enamoured with security that they are forgetting that people have fundemental rights.

    And before someone says that I don't have to fly, that's not a valid statement. When you work for a company that requires cross-country (or international for that matter) travel, flying is your only option. I can decide to just drive it.
  12. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

    I'm well aware that my experience at Ben-Gurion is not the one my Arab friends usually have. My understanding, however, is that the extremes are far less common than just a generally unpleasant, suspicious attitude toward those who are not Jewish-Israeli. Personally - I don't think destruction of property without an extremely good reason is okay, or that humiliating searches are appropriate. I don't have an issue with more thorough questioning for some people, though - e.g. those who've come from the territories can expect to arouse some suspicion.

    What I was trying to get at in my first post (and I had a hard time deciding how to phrase parts of it) is that the Ben-Gurion security model works in Israel, that it is probably not going to work in other countries, but that some things can be taken from it (e.g. the stupidity of the liquids ban being one). I wanted to avoid getting into matters that would be more appropriate in PI.
  13. deltask8er

    deltask8er Well-Known Member