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Does Mirai Nagasu have the talent to catch/pass Mao or Yu Na?

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by olympic, Jul 28, 2010.

  1. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

    Just curious as to what people's opinions are.

    Mirai has speed, great spins and spirals, almost the full complement of triples [can she do the 3s?]

    What would she have to do to compete with them or theoretically move ahead of them?

    For those of you who don't think so, does she have what it takes to overtake, say, Rochette?

    Is she the US frontrunner with her Olympic and Worlds performances?
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2010
    genevieve and (deleted member) like this.
  2. El Rey

    El Rey Well-Known Member

    rotate her triples
  3. orbitz

    orbitz Well-Known Member

    Fully rotates AND lands all her triples and 3-3. Don't have a semi lapse in concentration like she did at Worlds. Get more speed and attack.
  4. sk9tingfan

    sk9tingfan Well-Known Member

    Have you seen her skate live? Because if you had, I don't think you would have made this statement. She blazed across the ice at all of her competitions starting with this year's Nationals. :rolleyes:
  5. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

    For those of you who have posted so far, you seem to think that Mirai could catch them if she just laid it out on the ice and executed / rotated all her triples?
  6. oleada

    oleada Well-Known Member

    I think the judges have shown that when Mirai is on, she's among the best in the world. See the Olympics and the SP at Worlds.

    However, she needs to consistently do the following:

    1. Rotate her triples
    2. Skate two clean programs

    Her spins and spirals are already top notch.
    Poggi and (deleted member) like this.
  7. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa discriminating and persnickety ballet aficionado


    To answer the question: I really hope so. That's all I can say at this point.
  8. miki88

    miki88 Active Member

    Get tougher mentally. But I fear that Mirai may get stuck in a similar situation as Joannie. Once she becomes more consistent, she may meet up with younger and more challenging competitors. And there are potentially many.
  9. pinky166

    pinky166 #teamtrainwreck #teamdiva

    She's really fast. Mao is not very fast and yet she is still consistently one of the top skaters. I think any more speed could potentially hurt Mirai and her consistency (think Kostner). I say with a solid 3-3 and more confidence, she can surpass Mao, and maybe even catch Yuna.
  10. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

    I think it's been mentioned that she is faster than Mao and has superior spins to Mao and Yu Na.

    I also think going forward, she and FC should work back in the 3sal and replace one of the 2x's if that is possible to get extra points, but I agree that she mostly needs to just skate clean and rotate all.

    I won't worry about her becoming the next Joannie because I think Mirai has it more 'together' in this early stage of her career than Joannie did. FC is probably really pacing her properly for the '11 - '14 quadrennial
  11. museksk8r

    museksk8r Holding an edge and looking dangerously sexy

    Yes, she can beat Mao and Yu-Na if they make mistakes.

    She needs to:
    1. Fully rotate her jumps.
    2. Build up her consistency and mental toughness.
    3. Establish a respectable resume and reputation in the minds of the judges.
    4. Never believe the hype around you (in other words, don't take anything for granted and stay grounded and train hard like the champion you want to become).

    Yes, if Joannie makes mistakes.

    She was on her way to claiming that position until her disastrous fall from grace in the Torino Worlds LP. Her potential to medal was great . . . a clean performance could have resulted in a World silver or bronze medal given Yu-Na Kim's disappointing SP outing and LP flaws and Joannie Rochette's absence. As it stands now, Rachael Flatt still has the highest recent senior Worlds finish for a US lady (5th) of those who are currently active in competition. Mirai, however, does have the highest Olympics finish for a US lady (4th). Flatt has 3 US senior medals (2 silvers and 1 gold). Nagasu has 2 US senior medals (1 gold and 1 silver). In other words, they're pretty equal stats-wise.
  12. chipso1

    chipso1 Well-Known Member

    Yes. The new underrotation rules help Mirai, and I think it's safe to say that, after last season, she has established herself as the top U.S. lady at the moment. It will be interesting to see how Agnes and Christina develop in the next year or two, because I think they are the skaters most likely to challenge Mirai at the top. I'm not sure if Flatt and Wagner are going to be able to sustain their skating another 4 years to Sochi.
  13. museksk8r

    museksk8r Holding an edge and looking dangerously sexy

    Not sure how you figure that. Rochette never had a big UR problem like Nagasu does. Yes, Mirai's spins are way better than Joannie's, but Jo's jumps are way better than Mirai's. I also think Rochette has the edge in footwork/edging/basics while Nagasu has the edge in spirals. Their speed is pretty equal from what I've seen. Rochette, of course, is way more mature too in her presentation, choreography, flow, and musical interpretation. I also think Jo makes better use of transitions than Mirai does. Performance execution probably goes to Nagasu for the way she attacks and uses her charismatic personality to show her command and joy for skating (sadly, we didn't see this in her Skate Canada LP when she mostly looked down at the ice the whole time with a cold expression on her face as if she was mad or bored).

    It's tough to compare the two anyway at age 16/17. Rochette was competing under 6.0 back then and Nagasu competes under COP now at that age.
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2010
    LadyGray and (deleted member) like this.
  14. miki88

    miki88 Active Member

    Well, pacing is good but it's not just about being consistent, Mirai will also need to up her technical content because if any of those Russian girls make it through puberty, she will need it to contend with them. Also one of the reasons she was able to pass Mao in the SP at worlds was because the old rules heavily penalized an UR triple axel. With the new rules in place, Mao will be able to add another triple in addition to her 3A. Unless Mirai gets her 3-3 as consistent as Yuna's with added GOE, it's not going to be easy to surpass Mao. I also think Mirai needs a bit of the killer instinct as a competitor. It's easier said than done though. Some skaters just never develop it, while others have it a young age. (e.g Plushenko, Kwan).
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2010
  15. IceJunkie

    IceJunkie Well-Known Member

    Mirai will only be 20, almost 21 in Sochi. Ironically, it seems to me that "older skaters" (18-24) are the ones that have been dominating the past 4 years. Even Mao and Yu-Na at 19 would have been considered middle-aged a couple Olympics ago. Either she will have injury problems the coming years, or her muscle strength will increase and she'll kick her UR problem. If Mirai can get her triples landed, get mentally tough (she already demonstrated she is capable of doing that at this years' Nats and Olympics) then she'll be a force to be reckoned with in the coming quad.
  16. Lainerb

    Lainerb New Member

    If she skates clean then she could be a threat for a major title under the right circumstances. However, falling from first after the short program at Worlds to 11th in the LP and 7th overall shows she has a lot to focus in terms of handling pressure.
  17. Polymer Bob

    Polymer Bob New Member

    The last report I heard was that Mirai was injured. We know pretty much nothing else beyond that. If she's healthy, she can certainly knock on the door of the best skaters in the world.

    This coming season, I have no idea which U.S. lady, if any, will break out.
  18. blue_idealist

    blue_idealist Well-Known Member

    If she landed all her jumps cleanly and Rochette had some mistakes, she might beat her unless Rochette was too far ahead in PCs. I think Mirai's style is a bit too young right now, even though I like it. She doesn't skate with a lot of maturity like Rochette does even though I actually prefer her to Rochette. I'm not sure if Mirai will be able to beat Mao or Yuna.. I think she could probably beat Mao if Mao misses jumps like she is prone to, but Yuna is usually error-free so she would probably be harder to beat. Especially overall in a competition, because even with Yuna's disastrous SP at the last Worlds she was still able to hold on to 2nd place in the competition. She would have to majorly screw up for more than like one person to pass her.
  19. smarts1

    smarts1 Well-Known Member

    I have no idea where everyone gets that Yuna is usually error free... The only time she did clean performances in her whole career was at 2007 COR and at the Olympics and maybe the 2008 GPF?. She often makes a mistake or two in her LPs, but she is able to maintain her lead because of the GOE she gets on her elements.

    But yes, I believe that Mirai will need to get more rotation, get a consistent triple-triple, and work on her mental toughness. And her support team really seems to be an excellent one in trying to achieve those things.
  20. miki88

    miki88 Active Member

    Yuna was obviously not error-free at 2008 GPF; she didn't win there. The only time she had been error-free in both programs was at the Olympics. However, her scores aren't as affected because she rarely ever misses her biggest point getter (the 3-3 combo) plus GOE advantage on her elements.
  21. Marco

    Marco Well-Known Member

    Mirai just needs to skate consistently and confidently and earn her way up in the PCS ladder.

    She has everything one needs to become a World and Olympic Champion. And she has Frank to work on her jumps. She has developed a more mature competitive mindset. As long as she does her run throughs and attacks each competition she will be at the top in no time.
  22. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

    She may not have to even catch/pass both if Yu Na doesnt even continue (though I really hope she does). I think she is good enough though but she has to continue to mature and start doing the triple-triples consistently with no UR calls.
  23. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

    Rochette isnt even competing this season. I doubt we will see Rochette again actually.
  24. RumbleFish

    RumbleFish New Member

    IMO, Mirai's problem is a technical flaw rather than a nerve issue.
    When she does triple flip and triple lutz, her entrance edge swings back and forth between inside and outside edge.
    Actually, all the girls who hammer their toes before take off, like Rachel and Caroline, share this problem, making their jumps inconsistent and prone to under rotations.

    She certainly has potentials to match Yuna if she successfully address this issue like Rochette fixed her lutz after 02/03 season.
    It seems she surely has the athletic abilities to land triple lutzes and triple-triples if she learns the correct entrance and usage of the toe pick.

    There is nothing better than a solid technique to tame her nerves and get her through the program even in pressure situations.
    mag and (deleted member) like this.
  25. Jaana

    Jaana Well-Known Member

    Yes, Flatt did have the highest recent senior Worlds finish, but in 2010 she dropped onto 9th place. Mirai was better, she was 7th (which of course is not a good result for a US lady skater). I have the feeling that next year Mirai will do a lot better in Worlds.
  26. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

    Nagasu has the potential. She needs more international experience.
  27. igniculus

    igniculus Well-Known Member

    In terms of spins and spark, she already surpassed Yuna, she is way more exciting to watch than Kim. She must, however, build up a mental thoughness to overcome fear and dissappointments and believe in herself and her programs, like Mao. Also, she needs some time to get as mature and sophisticated as Mao, but I think she has all the talent in the world.
  28. Japanfan

    Japanfan Well-Known Member

    I think she needs maturity and experience to rival Yunah and Mao - she has not yet found her signature style unless exuberant is her signature style, as it clearly is for Leonova. But it seems to me more a quality of her youthfulness rather than a dominant character trait.

    It will be interesting to see her next season - to me she is still a little rough around the edges.
  29. Eris

    Eris New Member

    It's good for Mirai that she will compete under new rules before Grand Prix - at Japan Open. :) I hope her injury is not serious.
  30. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

    ^Yes. What type of injury is it? Hopefully nothing serious... :(