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Does Jeremy Abbott need a coaching change?

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Vash01, Jan 28, 2013.

  1. Sylvia

    Sylvia Prepping for club comp. season!

    Many folks believe that an Olympic or World medal defines whether or not a skater has had a successful career. They're entitled to believe that; I don't.
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2013
  2. Marco

    Marco Well-Known Member

    That depends on whether his goal is just to make it out of Nationals or to medal at Worlds.

    If it is the former, a safer layout might have done the trick, but even if clean it's still likely that he would lose to Aaron.

    If it is the latter, he really can't leave out the quad. It's the same logic that I am using to predict that Wagner will NOT land the 3flip3toe or 2axel3toe at Worlds when she hasn't even attempted them all season. At least she attempted them at 4CCs last season but it wasn't the third competition (WTT) that she landed both (or was closest to landing them).
  3. Marco

    Marco Well-Known Member

    Well then perhaps he needs a goal for continuing. Does he just want to continue because he loves skating? or because he wants to go to the Olympics one more time? or what?

    He has already accomplished so much - National titles, 4CC medal, GPF champion, etc, is he hungry for more? If not, he should retire like Buttle did, or be content with whatever result he has and not making world teams every once in a while but raveling in the art that he shows. If yes, then he really needs to fix that bug.
  4. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Yuzuru, Medvedeva, T&M, Shibs, P&C

    COP is really not different from the 6.0 (what you call a 'voting block'). Do you really believe that the judges work in isolation? They are not a part of a jury pool, to use an analogy. There is communication, politics, and the judges know or at least have some idea of how other judges are likely to score certain skaters. Jeremy is not getting the benefit of doubt at this point because he has disappointed his fans and the USFSA too many times and IMO they are writing him off because of his age too. Nobody needs to say it; they understand each other. FS has always been a political sport and it is going to remain that way, regardless of what scoring system you use.
  5. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Yuzuru, Medvedeva, T&M, Shibs, P&C

    You can't really compare his situation to Buttle's. Buttle won an Olympic medal, a world championship. Jeremy has not even made the podium at either one, despite many opportunities. I am sure he is hungry, but unfortunately there is no food for him at this time. If he can work through his issues and use a smart strategy like Lysacek did in 2010, he may have a shot at going to one more Olympics and one more worlds. Barring injury, I don't see him quitting at this time. After the 2014 Olympics though I fully expect him to retire and skate for the love of skating.
  6. Susan M

    Susan M Well-Known Member

    As long as he is supporting himself with his skating, then you are right, nobody else is hurt by his staying in. Besides, it would be pretty unusual for anyone to retire going into the Olympic year.

    IMO the only other real factors (for just about any skater, really) are 1) what other opportunities is he missing by continuing to compete, and 2) is he doing permanent/chronic injury to his body by continuing to compete?
  7. Cachoo

    Cachoo Well-Known Member

    I'm with you: I loved his SP, love his artistry and would rather he find a way to stay in one more year unless his back is too bad to compete.
  8. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

    To be clear, I meant a voting block as a way of cheating under 6.0, not what I think 6.0 was when done correctly. While I do think scores can be manipulated, I do think it is much harder under IJS, especially if the manipulation was to place a skater 3rd. If they want a huge win, that can be done easily.
  9. haribobo

    haribobo Well-Known Member

    Agree, the SP program was fine but the FS was pretty dull to me. I don't want to say him/coaches aren't trying on the TES side of things, as I have no idea how much the injuries are hampering his abilities. But back when he was with Tom Z. (not that I'm trying to champion Tom Z., but like him or not he also happens to have our current champ) before and around the time he won his first National medal, I remember him as a quirky, fun speedy skater with awesome jumps and spins. Now it all seems kind of slow and heavy and sad. Considering Alissa has also gone the same way, I'm really not very confident that Yuka/Jason can pull him out of his current funk in the dramatic way that he will need...
  10. Jammers

    Jammers Well-Known Member

    I was just watching a clip of Jeremy on YouTube back in 2008 at the GPF. Even though he was already 22 he looked much smaller and faster with big jumps. He looked like a future World Champion and perhaps even a Olympic champion. I only got back into skating around the time of the 2010 Olympics so i didn't see all the hype about his skating but now i see it. Sadly now he's almost 28 and isn't as fast and can't do the jumps like he used to. His body is just worn down.
  11. smileyskate

    smileyskate Active Member

    Just saw a youtube clip of Jeremy playing around doing a little ice dance with Madi Hubbel. (May have been after Nat's gala). I think it'd be nice if he went into ice dance (or pairs). Maybe teaming up with Emily, even if just for exhibs/shows at this point. Yes, I love his skating. I'm not trying to upset any fans, this is just another thought.
  12. shine

    shine Well-Known Member

    If he's going to change discpline, I hope it's definitely dance. He's too good for pairs :p
    flutzilla1 and (deleted member) like this.
  13. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

    The less jumping he has to do the better. However, given his competition nerves, he'll probably fall on a twizzle or something during major competition. :scream:
  14. shine

    shine Well-Known Member

    What's really sad though is that he actually has great jump technique and when on his jumps are wonderful.
    kwanette and (deleted member) like this.
  15. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

    The story of his career. He always had the goods to be a world champion. If he had ever won the title, he'd be considered one of the better skaters to have won it.
  16. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

    Next season ? :drama:
  17. shine

    shine Well-Known Member

    Even Jeff Buttle the skater who everybody thought was an eternal headcase artist won a medal or two as well as one world championship, why can't Abbott??
  18. centerpt1

    centerpt1 Well-Known Member

    1. His injuries apparently won't let him train a quad

    2. He can't get out of Nationals to get to Worlds.

    3, He has very, very terrible skating luck.

    He's too short for Emily, but maybe another ice dancer? It would be fun to watch him-
  19. bek

    bek Guest

    I think once Buttle gave up his quad, everything else got easier for him, and it was just-his time..
  20. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

    It was different then. During Jeff's day, COP was still pretty new and it was in the transitional period of verteran skaters who grew up under 6.0 adapting to COP and the new ones speedily gaining recognition. Therefore, Jeff wasn't competing with the younger guys who had grown up with the COP in their prime. The quad was also valued less than it is today hence Buttle and Lysaceck winning titles without it.

    Now, skaters have grown up with COP, they have excellent skating skills, transitions, choreography, and now jump difficulty. It's just a different ballgame and I don't know if Buttle could have pulled off a title win with this landscape. Maybe he could have but even he had better performances on the World stage than Abbott. At least Buttle won a World bronze and an Olympic bronze before he won Worlds. Even in 2007 when he placed 6th, Buttle was second after the SP. When has Abbott ever skated well enough at Worlds that ranked him that high? I mean I guess you can argue he was undermarked in 2010 SP, but other than that? Also, has Buttle ever failed to make his World team twice?
  21. jlai

    jlai Title-less

    I love Abbott for his choreography and his glide across the ice, but I must say Buttle was a master of cop, a reliable short program skater, and had sublime edges.

    Eta for some reason Jeremy hasnt been able to maximize his values under cop esp with combos and spin levels the last 2-3 years, whether it is due to injury or lapse of focus I cant say
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2013
  22. skatesindreams

    skatesindreams Well-Known Member

    I'm glad that these decisions are Jeremy's, rather than his detractors in this thread,
    flutzilla1 and (deleted member) like this.
  23. LilJen

    LilJen Reaching out with my hand sensitively

    Word to that.
  24. Cheylana

    Cheylana Well-Known Member

    I never thought Buttle was a head case. He wasn't the most consistent jumper, but that was in part because his programs were so busy with transitions and virtually nonstop footwork. He was also a master strategist who constructed programs to maximize points and gain judges' respect. Actually he had a great mental game and would change his routine as needed to avoid doing too many combination jumps, etc. Even when he made a mistake he would keep fighting to get back on track.
    PeterG and (deleted member) like this.
  25. TheIronLady

    TheIronLady Well-Known Member

    Yes some here sound bitter and not necessarily realistic about Abbott. In reality, Abbott does have the superior skating skills and integration of them with true artistry. I am not an expert on the 2014 men's field, but it seems like he has potential to factor in--if even just third best in the US--in 2014. He has an opportunity to have a come back during an Olympic year-- a year when his story would get publicity. Shouldn't he take it and perhaps add in a new coach? If he decided to retire to save his body and his money rather than try, I think he would regret it. The Olympics are the biggest deal in skating. I think he has some chance of making a Jamie Silverstein, Paul Wylie, or Chen Lu story.
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2013
  26. apatinar

    apatinar Active Member

    Paul Wylie's olympic story is not just going to happen to all headcases..that is what made his story so special..

    I blame Yuka and Jason for adding two of the highest profile headcases to their roster of students in Jeremy and Alissa and then a 3rd in Rippon who thinks that switching coaches will cure him of his inability to really compete.... This is certainly not helping their reputation as top coaches in the near future
  27. The Observer

    The Observer Active Member

    Unfortunately I think Jeremy Abbott is approaching the same point in his career that Emanuel Sandhu was doing at the end of his competitive time as a skater. It's one thing to be missing the podium at Worlds or bombing at Nationals when you are 19 or 20 because you can come back from that and still have years left ahead of you. But Jeremy is not a young skater anymore - he's now well into his 20's and should be at his peak and already on the World podium and instead he is still struggling just to be in contention. Unfortunately you only get so many chances and I think the window for Jeremy to get to the 2014 Olympics or achieve his dream of being on the Olympic podium is getting smaller all the time. The other American men are beginning to surpass him. If he comes back one last time next season he will need for everything to go just right.
  28. museksk8r

    museksk8r Holding an edge and looking dangerously sexy

    They just finished 4th, 5th, and 9th at 4CC, so the surpassing hasn't happened yet. None of them are a complete package consistent skater either from what I see.

    I definitely agree with this statement. To make his case internationally as a possible Olympic medal hopeful/contender, Abbott needs to get off to a rock solid strong start next season if he is to have the comeback he dreams of! This means no more popping triples into doubles at numerous events. The most important thing for Jeremy though is to get healed and healthy, so that he can properly train and get the repetitions in on the jumps to build his muscle memory. He's been missing that component for a while now.
  29. jlai

    jlai Title-less

    The guys surpassed him at nationals--the only event where they met. Jeremy isn't at 4cc.

    Perhaps Jeremy would pass the younger guys again next season; until then, the younger guys --who outskated him at nationals--get a shot at worlds.

    I like Jeremy a lot, but no one is permanently better than some other skater. Kevin winning 4CC being proof. Of course, that also means Jeremy could surpass Max and Miner again.
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2013
  30. centerpt1

    centerpt1 Well-Known Member

    Jeremy is my favorite skater.

    But, unless he can get his back healed, and get quads up and running in both programs (highly unlikely) , he's history.

    It's a sad result of the Quad over everything else mentality since Evan's no-quad Olympic win. It isn't going to change. I think it makes Men's skating overall less watchable. 4CC was pretty pathetic in terms of men's choreo.

    Too bad Jeremy can't retire early and spend a year helping the US men get some choreography has some impact. meaning, and performance value.