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Decisions of the ISU Council announced in their latest communications 1671

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Visaliakid, Apr 20, 2011.

  1. antmanb

    antmanb Well-Known Member

    If it's an ISU competition, then the ISU would set the rules and I can't see them promoting anything other than COP. I'm sure the ISU would rather die a painful death than bring out 6.0 again, even for this pro-am.
  2. gkelly

    gkelly Well-Known Member

    In theory, though, in the future once everyone is fully trained in skills needed to earn higher levels, a skater retired for 10 years might still be able to defeat a recent medalist who earned that medal on the strength of jump content. Depends what the rules are and how fit each of them is at 1 or 10 years after their medal(s).
  3. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

    I'd like to see them open it up to medalists (maybe even top 10? or 5?) of any ISU championship (4CC, Euros, GPF). The list is just way too small. Not all of them are going to want to do it.

    Plus it leaves out a lot of my favorites... but I doubt it will be shown on any TV channel I get anyway. So it's moot.
  4. Jaana

    Jaana Well-Known Member


    I have missed pro-am events and hope to see some old favourites competing in them!
  5. Susan M

    Susan M Well-Known Member

    Well, like Yagudin, after next year Berezhnaya & Sikharulidze and Annissina & Peizerat will also be outside the 10 year limit.

    I cannot recall the last time Kulik landed a 3A, but I know it's been years since the last time I saw or read about him landing one. It's even been years since I saw him do a program with an early 2A in a place where he could do a 3A if the rink was big enough. I do recall seeing 3F and 3Z in his most recent numbers, though, which probably has him ahead of Yagudin. We've also seen him do 3S in recent years, but I can't recall the last 3 loop, either.

    Like others, I hope this is not just a forum for showing off SOI skaters, but that they make a real effort to attract the best available. I kind of like that they call for one event each in Asia, NA, and Europe. It kind of mitigates against a too heavily NA orientation. If they hope to sell the TV right to these events in other countries, then I think that pretty much guarantees it won't just be the casts of the US and Canadian SOI tours competing.

    I think you've hit on it!! What skating really needs is a seniors tour, like golf and tennis. Seriously, though, I kind of like the idea of a second event for people whose last medals were longer ago.

    It sounded from the announcement like there will be some non-ISU content/scoring for the short programs. Maybe if this works, the ISU will let them make changes for the free skate portions as well. The ISU rulebook used to also include an "interpretive program" so maybe they can resurrect that. COP doesn't address how to score the interpretive program and, as I recall, even under 6.0 the judges were totally confused about how to rank them.

    I am kind of sorry it leaves out the Kerrs. At least Faella-S got in under the wire.
    I wonder what size fields they are planning for these events. They are clearly described as made-for-TV events, so it could be as few as 4-5 entrants per discipline. I wonder if they intend to feature the same skaters in all 3 or if the participants will change from place to place.
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2011
  6. misskarne

    misskarne #AustraliaForTheTeamEvent

    At my last count, Kulik is still doing in shows 3T, 3Lz, 3F and 3S. He took his 3A out of his show programs because he was having trouble with his consistency but the last time I can remember seeing him do one is 2009's Song for the King in Sth Korea. He is working on it in practice and apparently intends to put it back in his show programs shortly.

    Regardless, he is still far and away a better skater than half the current circuit and always will be. The very fact that he still has so many triples at his age should be enough. His jump technique is just about flawless, and he's developed into an amazing artist.
  7. Jaana

    Jaana Well-Known Member

    :rolleyes: In the announcement it was mentioned that the events will be held in three different geographical locations (in principle one in Asia, one in Europe and one in NA). Because of that I really doubt that "higher quality" international skaters will get passed by "lower quality" NA skaters. Besides all the competitors have to be World or Olympic medalists, so lower quality does not apply to anyone.
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2011
  8. Michael O'C

    Michael O'C Member

    There could be some wriggle room there. If the rule said "shall be" that would certainly mean that there was no room for discretion but should might not be as tight.
  9. Dragonlady

    Dragonlady Sew Happy

    Considering that two of the Olympic Gold Medalists in 2010 were from North America, I would say that the North Americans can hold there own in that department, at the moment.
  10. skatingfan26

    skatingfan26 Member

    The Japanese (federation, TV stations, skaters) might also love the idea of a Pro-Am competition. Takahashi and Ando will retire sooner or later. Also Yuna and the South Korean TV stations etc. might also like the idea. They will definitely raise the bar.

    A lot of skaters are still interested in competing, but don't want to commit to the lifestyle of an eligible skater anymore. I think they'd love to do it. It's a great way to keep them in competitions.
  11. skatingfan26

    skatingfan26 Member

    If you think about it:
    I'd bet Lysacek, Plushenko and Takahashi would love to do it with Patrick Chan as eligible skater would make for a great re-match of the 2010 Olympics - would attract Japanese and US-American TV stations as well.

    The same is true for ladies: Rochette, Yuna Kim and Mao Asada...

    Especially the year(s) following an Olympics promises great re-matches with new (up-and-coming) skaters thrown in the mix.
  12. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

    A pointless team event and more cheesefests, yay! :scream:

    They should have added synchronised skating, instead.

    Although I guess I should reserve judgement until detailed plans are presented.

    The drop from 10 to 5 teams after the SP is extreme, though and I don't like it at all.

    But then, it's obvious the plan is a nod to the few biggest feds who run the show.
  13. Susan M

    Susan M Well-Known Member

    I think that's a big part of my objection to the team event. It really needs to wait until there are more federations strong in all 4 disciplines.

    My guess is the cut to 5 teams was done so each discipline needs only one warm-up group. I wonder if the finals will follow the individual discipline order (pairs-men-zamboni-dance-ladies) or if they will put both singles at the end.
  14. julieann

    julieann Well-Known Member

    The federations won't become serious until they are forced to by the ISU/IOC to do so. If they want to hold a team event, why should some countries who are prepared have to wait because some countries haven't been ready in a disciplines?
  15. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

    That is one good thing that can come out of this.

    Federations like Japan and Korea might finally start investing money and resources in developing Pairs and Ice Dance programmes.

    The problem is that if you only have 5 countries in the final, those places are going to pretty much go by default to powerhouses like USA, Canada, Russia, etc. so why bother? It would take many many years for other feds to get to that level. Is it worth the time and effort?
  16. RUKen

    RUKen Guest

    It's not all that unusual for a Winter Olympics sport to be dominated by five (or fewer) countries. If synchronized skating had been added, they may have imposed the same restriction on the number of teams competing, so these places would go "by default" to Finland, Sweden, USA, Canada, and probably Russia.
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2011
  17. skatemommy

    skatemommy Well-Known Member

    Finland and Switzerland (I'm not a synchro expert)
  18. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

    I don't think Switerland is a synchro powerhouse... are you thinking of Sweden?

    From 2000 (the first year it was held) to 2011 (according to Wikipedia), the only countries that have medalled at Synchro World's are Sweden, Finland, Canada, and USA.

    The medal count is
    Sweden - 5 golds, 4 silver, 1 bronze
    Finland - 6 golds, 6 silver, 4 bronze
    Canada - 1 gold, 1 silver, 5 bronze
    USA - 1 silver, 2 bronze

    Five of the years Finland has won 2 medals.

    I can kind of see what they mean by not having enough countries competitive in synchro for it to go to the Olympics. Isn't that why they got rid of softball?
  19. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

    Synchro should be at Olympics with 20 spots, 15 at least!
  20. julieann

    julieann Well-Known Member

    Was it worth the effort that Yao Bin or Luan Bo put into pairs in China? Sure it took time but eventually their hard work paid off and will continue to do so. Unless some feel one gold, two silvers and two bronze at the Olympics plus countless world titles isn't enough.
  21. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

    Considering they don't want to raise the number of athletes at the games, there is no way that's going to happen. Even at only 8 athletes per team that's 120 to 160 more athletes. If the teams skate 20, then that's 300 to 400 athletes. Not coaches, other personel (team leader, doctors, etc) or alternates (which isn't the same as a single or pair alternate- these alternates skate with the team through warmup, a singles skater alternate would be more analagous to a country naming a different team as an alternate team in case of a withdraw).

    I'm not sure what exactly the international number is right now. The USFS rulebook says 16 for senior, but there are 19 pictured in the champions banner. My guess is the extra 3 account for skaters who did the short, but not the long, or vice versus.

    The IOC is not going to let that happen. They don't want to expand the numbers at the Olympics- they want events that will allow them to make more money using existing athletes and venues
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2011
  22. ItalianFan

    ItalianFan Active Member

    Whyever would Plushenko need a "consolation" prize? Because after being out of the action for nearly 4 years, he "only" came in 2nd in the Olympics after losing by literally a hair? because he "only" won the European Championships a month before the Olympics? Because everywhere he goes to perform his fans cheer the house down?? I'm willing to bet the guy will not only compete in Sochi but he will also take home another medal to add to the hundreds he already has. Chan or no Chan....
  23. ciocio

    ciocio Active Member

    Probably the poster was suggesting it's a consolation prize because he is ineligible and can't compete in ISU events. ISU thought how sad poor Plushy might be and created this competition especially for him. :plush:
    They were afraid Plushy could commit a desperate act like cutting his mullet or having a nose job!!! ;):plush:
  24. 5Ali3

    5Ali3 Active Member

    Alternates who are listed on the official roster receive medals and are included in official team photos, regardless of whether they are one of the 16 skaters on the ice for either the short or the long.

    I have also heard that the inclusion of synchro in the Olympics is very unlikely in the short-term, because of the number of athletes involved. Over the past 20 years, the number of athletes on the ice at the senior level has dropped (currently 16), in part because of the IOC's reluctance to add athletes to the Games. The last proposal that I heard was top five countries from the previous year's Worlds (not top five teams, but top five countries, one entry per country) to keep the number of athletes under 100.

    In addition, ice time is at a premium, as speed skating keeps adding more events, and synchro is fairly ice-time-intensive. (It's also awful for ice quality! It would be a challenge to put synchro in the same facility as short-track and S/P/D for practice and competition, and keep the ice in Olympic-quality shape. It's certainly possible, but it's enough of an issue that it needs to be considered.)

    I wouldn't be surprised if synchro is eventually added to the Games, but I would be very surprised if it happens any time soon - or while a speedskater is head of ISU.
  25. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

    Thanks, I didn't realise that.

    I guess it means the chances of Synchro entering Olympics is pretty much zilch. :/
  26. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

    Thank you. I was thinking it was like swimming- where the alternate has to swim one of the rounds to get the medal.

    I know that USFS allows some levels (adults) to have teams as small as 8. I'd rather see synchro stay out of the Olympics than elite skating drop that low. The HUGE teams of the 90s are just so amazing to watch- even though the eliminates the smaller teams are doing now are pretty amazing. The actual synchronization and things like pinwheels were just WOW then.
  27. Susan M

    Susan M Well-Known Member

    I think there are lots of things working against adding synchro. In addition to the overwhelming number of athletes, it would probably create a need for an additional ice practice facility and maybe even a third ice venue. As it is, one ice sheet is pretty much occupied by hockey and the other by figure skating and short track. I think addition of the team event must pretty much consume whatever open ice time remained, reducing the chances of adding synchro.

    The only way they could add synchro is by holding some preliminary qualifying rounds elsewhere to produce a small field for the Olympic event, as they currently do for the team sports in the summer Olympics. How many teams skate on one ice make? Could they get in maybe 2 flights of 4 teams each?
  28. hydro

    hydro Well-Known Member

    I agree. I think this is more future-proofing current eligibles than considering past champions.

    I'm sure the ISU wants past champions, but the rules seem to be geared towards the next Olympic cycle. Start small, see if the idea works, then go from there.
  29. oubik

    oubik Well-Known Member

    Well, for countries like Poland and Czech Republic this should mean more figure skaters at Olympics and more positive "feedback" including more money from the goverment, ask your friends at federation. Normally, it is even complicated to "politicking" all the skaters who won the quotas at Worlds or Nebelhorn to be finally nominated because the NOC rules are sometimes more strict to ISU (remember Israel, Germany, Austria, even Poland), but if the team have the sureness of Top 10 placement there would not have been any question marks from those NOCs.

    And if you´re looking in Poland in the last two decades they should easily be inside the Worlds Top 10 teams even the nowadays reality is different.
  30. Susan M

    Susan M Well-Known Member

    But he won't need this event, because by next year he'll be competing as an eligible again. Right?