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Davis & White #15: The Polka Connection

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by chipso1, Dec 10, 2012.


    DORISPULASKI Watching submarine races

    I loved Meryl & Charlie's skate, but I just hope Tessa is OK :cry: :sad:
  2. ~tapdancer~

    ~tapdancer~ Well-Known Member

    I'm sure Tessa is just fine. Worlds are in Canada, they aren't going to miss that one.
  3. Piper

    Piper Member

    According to Lynn Rutherford, Tessa felt a cramp in her legs.
    It could be worse, but it's definitely not the most pleasant experience, especially on the ice.
  4. semogal

    semogal Well-Known Member

    WOW!! Just when I think they couldn't get any better, M/C prove me wrong. That was an amazing performance. Thanks for posting the videos.

    How does Meryl keep from getting whiplash at the end? The way her head snaps around scares me.
  5. literaryfreak

    literaryfreak Well-Known Member

    Loved how the audience instantly leaped to their feet once the FD was over. You don't see that often in ice dance. :)

    Oh and their twizzles are back to being the best in the world. :respec:
  6. Whitneyskates

    Whitneyskates Well-Known Member

    Yet it happens so often for Meryl and Charlie :encore:
  7. mia joy

    mia joy Well-Known Member

    Congratulations to Meryl and Charlie! :cheer2: What a wonderful season they're having!

    Gotta say, the thought of having them around for just one more season is more than depressing. I seriously don't know how ice dance could've existed without them before and I sure as hell don't know how it will exist after they retire. Same for Tessa and Scott, actually. You don't see such high-level, out-of-this-world rivalries in ice dance very often. The discipline will just not be the same without the 4 of them...
    I know I should just enjoy the moment and appreciate how blessed we are now to be heading into an Olympic season with this amazing rivalry ahead, but people everywhere keep talking about how it's only 1 year left till Sochi and I just can't help myself. Especially that Meryl and Charlie do nothing but improve and one can only wonder how far they could develop if they stayed for a couple of seasons more.

    On the other hand, it will probably be a relief for the other teams. It must suck to know there is only one spot on the podium free to take :p
  8. lmarie086

    lmarie086 missing my cat :(

    What a wonderful performance! Notre Dame has just developed so much over the season, and this was by far their best performance yet this season. I still think there's even more room to grow, though. I'd really like to see them add a few more choreographic touches, a few in betweens. I watched V/M's Carmen today for the first time all season, and I have mixed feelings about it- I really like the nods to modern dance, but I don't know if I just don't like the overall package. But they do have more transitions than D/W currently do, and I'd like to see that difference eliminated.
    I love the passion D/W always skate with, and they truly left it all on the ice today. So happy for them, and good luck to them (and all the other teams) in preparations going forward to Worlds!
    PeterG and (deleted member) like this.
  9. CassAgain

    CassAgain Well-Known Member

    The program's last minute is choreographed (and performed) perfectly so that it ends in such intensity. The Japanese audience, though, is just awesome. LOVED the rhythmic clapping in anticipation of the marks. Also, I thought it was funny when Marina's face popped on the screen for just a second after the marks were revealed--and then she scampered away.

    It will be interesting to see how the audience in London reacts if Meryl and Charlie skate lights out like they did today.
  10. Bournekraatzfan

    Bournekraatzfan Well-Known Member

    I agree. That last minute is just electric, and I love how they build the program with more sustained movement in the beginning and then sharper ones with the music changes. I know I have said this several times before, but their spin is just :swoon: I love Meryl's shoulders at the end...really works with the music beautifully. I loved this program at its debut, and my love for it has only grown. I just respect Charlie so much for pushing himself outside of his comfort zone to depict the story of the hunchback. He is really throwing himself into his character. and Meryl is gorgeous as Esmeralda.

    This was also my favourite outing of ND as I feel that they were best able to express choreographic intention in this performance. They are so comfortable with the choreography now that they are really showing us the contrast between the different sections, highlighting the changes in mood and tone. It reminds me of watching S&D develop--by 4CC and culminating at worlds, they were able to bring light and shade to the program, as Tracy Wilson so aptly put it. It is such a pleasure to watch this program unfold, to see them bring these characters to life. And the ending pose is just awesome. The energy just builds and the electricity seems to shoot out of them in that last pose. The audience reaction was wonderful. I LOVE the Japanese fans.

    and yes, Meryl is a little warrior!

    Congratulations, Meryl and Charlie!

    If they skate lights out in London, I expect a similar reaction. A lot of us Canadians are D&W ubers, and I can tell you that they received a hearty ovation from the Toronto SOI audience last May.

    My thoughts go out Tessa, Fabian, Kaitlyn, and all the other dancers struggling with injury. ((()))

    and happy new year to those celebrating today!:cheer:
  11. ballettmaus

    ballettmaus Well-Known Member

    I saw ND at the beginning of the season and not again until now; wow, what a difference! I'm not even bothered by the many music cuts anymore. The program is just mesmerizing!
  12. Bournekraatzfan

    Bournekraatzfan Well-Known Member

    I think it is really sad that people would directly say or imply that V&M just wanted a break. Tessa has struggled with a potentially career ending injury throughout most of her senior career, and this could be related to that. I don't see any reason to assume they would stop the program unless something was really wrong. She looked really upset, and I feel awful for her. again, (((all the injured skaters)))
  13. circuscandy

    circuscandy New Member

    I love this Meryl quote from the interview in Skating:

    "What movie title best describes your life

    It's a Wonderful Life, Life is Beautiful, or perhaps The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey (laughs)"

    On another note, did the left strap (at the back) on Meryl's costume break during the FD? It seems to have snapped right in the center. Something is dangling behind her and it's too long and thick to be part of her hair.
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2013
  14. Jessiebanana

    Jessiebanana Well-Known Member

    Yeah Tessa's never seemed like a quitter or one to take it easy...not that I can think of a single World level skater that would stop mid program if they didn't deem it necessary :rolleyes:.

    Haters are what they are. Cramps happen to the best of people. It happened to Alex earlier this year. Things happen, end of story. I would much rather someone stop then risk getting hurt. Obviously too much cramping might be an issue of choreography, like they changed for their latin FD.

    Anywho I'm excited to get home and watch all the video. Thanks for all the links!
  15. TanithandBenFan

    TanithandBenFan Author of the Ice and Edge Series

    I think there does need to be a penalty for stopping mid-program. It's not fair to the other athletes who fight through adversity (like Charlie and Alex and a host of others last year who couldn't breathe at 4CC) to let the skaters take a break in the middle of the program and resume with no consequences. I hope this will get the ISU talking to inspire some changes.

    On a happier note, Meryl and Charlie were FABULOUS! If they skate like that in London, the crowd better go bananas. I will be!!!!
  16. ballettmaus

    ballettmaus Well-Known Member

    There is. At least, there was. 1.00 deduction for excessive interruption, I think. However, I don't know the exact rules, maybe if it's medically, the deduction doesn't apply.

    But it seems that before COP the rules were stricter on that. I remember that it said in the rules that the abandoned/interrupted move wouldn't be judged when repeated. So, V/M could have repeated the lift they abandoned, however, it would not have counted towards the score.
  17. TanithandBenFan

    TanithandBenFan Author of the Ice and Edge Series

    V/M didn't receive any deductions. There's no way to know if a skater really has a medical issue (sadly, I think there are some competitors out there who might take advantage of the situation), so I think the deduction should be in place regardless of the reason for the stoppage.
  18. professordeb

    professordeb Well-Known Member

    This! She did look pretty darned good at the end, didn't she, while poor Charlie looked like he had run at least a marathon if not an Iron Man comp.
  19. ballettmaus

    ballettmaus Well-Known Member

    I saw that they didn't have a deduction. The Shibutanis didn't have one either which, I remember, confused me.

    I agree, that there's no way of knowing if a skater really has a medical condition, especially with a cramp. And yes, sadly, there may be some who take advantage of that.
    I've actually been wondering if a cramp is so different from when a costume breaks and the skaters need to interrupt to fix it. It may be preventable but sometimes fabric just gives out or something happens that makes something rip. That's how things go.
    A cramp, as far as I know, is often a sign of insufficent training or lack of fluids or lack of magnesia, which, to me, means it can be prevented as well. But it also happens. (though I would exclude Tessa's situation, as I think, given her medical history, it's different. She cramps much easier and it's probably out of her hands)
    In general, I think it's difficult to determine when to apply a deduction for interruption and when not. Maybe it would be easier if the element that was interrupted wasn't counted. That way, there's a punishment but no explicit deduction. Or maybe there should be a mandatory deduction in PCS, however that could work.
  20. valpadana

    valpadana New Member

    I am totally agree with you!
  21. Jessiebanana

    Jessiebanana Well-Known Member

    I don't know about that. Stopping mid program is a lot like a fall. Skaters rarely recover to level they were at before the stop and because of this rarity I think judges are pretty biased after. I know I'm looking for more problems or for less fluid skating, especially in dance where there is more artistry and mood. It's like a defacto negative. I think they actually did one of the better jobs at recovering and you saw the score they got. Program just lost all momentum, especially something that builds like Carmen.

    If everyone gets this courtesy I don't think it will turn into a strategic stop fest. Judges can unofficially punish people, it's the only positive perk of a judged sport.
  22. circuscandy

    circuscandy New Member

    Last edited: Feb 11, 2013
  23. circuscandy

    circuscandy New Member

    My worry was others taking advantage of it, definitely. We know perfectly well that Tessa and Scott are far too competitive, driven and well-trained to give up just because (as some people hinted) Meryl and Charlie did well. They believe they are the best in the world. They were leaders after the SD. They didn't make a single mistake before the cramp. There is no reason why they would intentionally stop and throw away the title. They could totally have beaten 112, or got within a half-point of it and won by a slim margin.

    I do think that there should be a deduction, regardless. Just to keep anyone from taking advantage of this in the future. You never know in figure skating, right?

    I was thinking about precedents in other sports and I did remember that in Irish dance you are allowed a do-over if you have a problem while competing in whatever dance. I mean, you can't restart if you fall, but if there's equipment failure or someone gets in your way (in Irish dance, rivals compete at the same exact time), and I think even if you get injured you can try again. It happened at Worlds last year or the year before and the kid still ended up winning in the end, I believe. I don't know if they'd allow such a thing in other dance competitions, like the Prix de Lausanne or something.

    That's true, as well, although Tessa and Scott did still average out all 9+ in PCS, even with the break. Both halves, if you removed the break and didn't tell anyone it happened, looked great. Better than in previous international outings.

    The Shibs did not fare quite so well when this happened. I think that any team not on such a high level as Tessa and Scott would struggle to still pull a SB with a break. If I were a skater, I would not ever risk it. But crazier things have happened.
  24. luna_skater

    luna_skater Well-Known Member

    I can't speak to singles/pairs/dance, but in synchro, the excessive interruption deduction is applied when a skater (or skaters) fall, and takes too long getting back into formation (+10 seconds). With respect to re-starts, if a team has to stop the program due to injury, illness, equipment problems, music problems, safety issues, etc., they may do so, and then have 3 minutes to rectify the problem (i.e., fix the equipment problem, replace the skaters with an alternate, etc.). The team resumes from the point of interruption, and the judges mark from there.

    If the rules are similar for s/p/d, perhaps the Referee determined that the point of interruption occurred prior to the lift, which is why it was given a score when they resumed the program. I recall a competition last year where Duhamel/Radford botched a lift entry, then tried it again, and were *not* given a score for it. In V/M's case, it's a fair argument that they never entered/attempted the lift before stopping. Had they attempted the lift then aborted, my guess is that it's likely they would have lost the marks for the lift, and the judges would have begun marking from the subsequent element.
  25. Jessiebanana

    Jessiebanana Well-Known Member

    Your right...I guess while I love all the lifts, in dance and in pairs, I get worried about safety. I think it's a lot more likely people will try and fight through it and hurt themselves to avoid the deduction in a close competition. I want to discourage cheating, but I hate to encourage preventible injury. I know skaters all responsible for their own choices, but I sympathize.

    Also, I guess I shouldn't jump to conclusions they lost a whole lot of points. I mean they did score better than they did at Nationals, they got a season's best. They just aren't having the steady success (score climbing) that Davis/White are. It has to be really frustrating with Worlds around the corner. This is the time when your program should be pretty much signed and sealed.
  26. Wyliefan

    Wyliefan Well-Known Member

  27. ballettmaus

    ballettmaus Well-Known Member

    I think it's ridiculous that anyone even assumes V/M could have faked it. They don't have any reason to.

    However, lower ranked teams, once they realize that there's no deduction and a cramp is a way to catch a break without being punished... I don't want to believe anyone would do that but there's so much I don't want to believe people do and they still do it :-(

    Jessie, there didn't seem to be any bias against V/M. At least not where PCS are concerned, as circuscandy pointed out. And I would think that a high ranked team as V/M is capable of recovering. After all, it's how skaters usually train. Dancers, too. In parts, and it's actually more difficult to skate through a whole program and keep up the artistry because tiredness sets in.
  28. Jessiebanana

    Jessiebanana Well-Known Member

    I think the problem with the Shibs, had less to do with level, and more to do with experience. Alex was absolutely wrecked and devastated, and unlike Tessa, he struggled for it not to effect him.

    I think Tessa is really good at blocking all that out, I mean she had to be to skate one of the most serene programs of all time in so much pain.
  29. mollymgr

    mollymgr Well-Known Member

    I'm frankly tired of all the analyzing of V/M in this thread. I thought the V/M thread was already doing that. That said, I can't stop anyone and know how to use the ignore function quite well.

    In other news, DJ was supporting Team USA :)
  30. TanithandBenFan

    TanithandBenFan Author of the Ice and Edge Series

    LOL, go DJ!