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Dangers of a Trump Presidency pt. 4

Discussion in 'Politically Incorrect' started by skatesindreams, Feb 27, 2017.

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  1. Allskate

    Allskate Well-Known Member

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    Spicer suggested that Obama had the British spy on Trump, and Trump told us to talk to Fox about it. I don't think Fox was pleased about being used in a way that undermines our relationship with one of our most important allies. Fox News frequently has guests on knowing that they will like. But I guess even they have their limits. So, Fox has pulled Andrew Napolitano, at least for now.

    http://www.latimes.com/business/hollywood/la-fi-ct-napolitano-fox-news-20170320-story.html

    But, at least they understand that the real concern that needed to be addressed during Comey's hearing was the leaks. ;)
     
  2. topaz

    topaz Well-Known Member

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    The Mercers, as in Bob and Rebekah Mercer are extreme libertarians.

    LOL, I'm not embarrassed by him. He does not represent me and my values. He's like the mentally ill relative who likes chaos. I don't claim him.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2017
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  3. Miezekatze

    Miezekatze Well-Known Member

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    I don't know why you make such a "joke" Smiley behind that, because of course the US could have the Goal of spending 2% as well if they want. It's their decision what they do with their Budget. Has anybody forced the US to spend 3+ percent on military???? Apart from that you again are ignoring the fact that the 2% are a Goal for 2024. Is that on purpose? Or are you just trying to be provocative? AFAIK basically nobody outside the US is asking the US to spend more on military, most definitely not the populations, but also not country leaders afaik. During Obamas time there were at least negotiations about de-escalation and nuclear and bilateral disarmament (regardless of what actually was done). And even if they did it's not as if they can dictate the US anything, of course that goes both ways.

    IMO it would make sense for the US to DECREASE their Military spending and not expand it. I don't know a single person in Europe who thinks the US need more military, because everybody already agrees that the US is THE superpower in the world anyway and Trumps talking about build-up of arms all the times makes everybody uneasy at best and scared at worst.

    But maybe if the majority of the US population thinks that the US should invest less in military, maybe they shouldn't have elected Trump, because he seems to have the goal of spending most of the US Budget on military.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2017
  4. Asli

    Asli Well-Known Member

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    I believe the problem with decreasing defense spendings is that the US defense and aerospace industry supports more than 4 million jobs directly and in supporting sectors. So cutting back would mean major unemployment and loss of tax revenues. They just have to continue spending. Since their presence in the Middle East is reduced and therefore domestic demand for these products is down, they also have to increase their exports, which may explain why US presidents insist on the 2% rule for NATO.
     
  5. skatesindreams

    skatesindreams Well-Known Member

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    I don't either.
    We all must cope with the consequences of his words and actions, though.
     
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  6. NinjaTurtles

    NinjaTurtles Teenage Mutant

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    Supporting the likes of Trump, Cruz, The Heritage Foundation, and Breitbart makes one an extreme ideologue libertarian? :confused: Extreme ideological libertarianism is anarcho-capitalism. I can't think of policies and actions much further from libertarianism or anarcho-capitalism than tariffs, restrictive immigration and movement of people, increased military spending, disrespect of free speech, support of eminent domain, nominating Jeff "I love the drug war" Sessions, etc...

    I would say the Mercers support the remnants of Tea Party conservatism and now the Alt-Right; although, perhaps the latter is more a strategic move than a personally ideological one. Regardless, I'd hardly characterize either movement as champions of maximum individual liberty.

    There are political parties that are very strident in their criticism of military spending. I think for the general American public, there is debate about military spending when it comes to the obvious like war and arms trading; however, all the money the Department of Defense spends on contractors for service programs isn't really questioned appropriately. Defense contractors spend millions to block caps on military spending. Lockheed Martin, Boeing, General Dynamics, etc. employ millions of Americans, so they are able to make arguments about job loss.
     
  7. skatesindreams

    skatesindreams Well-Known Member

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  8. BlueRidge

    BlueRidge AYS's snark-sponge

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    I'm still wondering about the development of Trump's foreign policy after Tillerson's trip to China at which he used language signaling to the Chinese that the US will stay out of China's sphere of influence. This is obviously quite different from Trump's Taiwan gambit but that was apparently totally just him going rogue without knowing what he was doing. Bannon has sounded like he wants war with China, but really leaving East Asia to China is more in line with things Trump said during the campaign regarding Japan and South Korea.

    So maybe Tillerson is trying to put some coherence to the policy. The Trump admin may want trade concessions from China and may be willing to deal by ceding the political sphere to China.

    This would fit with Tillerson skipping the NATO meeting to instead be in Florida for Trump's meeting with China's leader.

    Tillerson's trip to Russia would also be of a piece if he is working toward the "America First" policy which withdraws the US as the leader of a liberal democratic international order and instead carves the world into spheres of influence with China and Russia.

    I don't think the US will abandon Europe and NATO, but what would fit into this policy set is handing over most responsibility for NATO militarily to Europe, hence the emphasis on Euro countries military spending.

    Will have to keep watching to see if this is where things are going.
     
  9. BittyBug

    BittyBug And the band played on

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    I think it's pretty clear where things are going. What is the source of money for Trump's business deals and the planned "public / private" infrastructure projects? China and Russia. :bribe:
     
  10. BlueRidge

    BlueRidge AYS's snark-sponge

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    It will be interesting to see what comes out of the Mar-a-Largo meeting next month since it was not obvious this was the direction they were taking on China. Some reports even questioned whether Tillerson knew what the language he used in China signaled.

    I think Tillerson is pretty savvy so he is someone to watch, even if the State Department's budget is set to be slashed.
     
  11. skatesindreams

    skatesindreams Well-Known Member

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  12. Simone411

    Simone411 Covfefe! FSU Uber fan!

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    Well, perhaps he needs to step away from that negotiating tool and concentrate more on the predicament he's already placed himself in after consulting with the Looney Tunes Cabinet and Tweety Bird.

    Nixon counsel during Watergate: Trump WH in 'coverup mode'

    o_O :nopryde:
     
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  13. skatesindreams

    skatesindreams Well-Known Member

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    I hope that those "experienced investigators" can stand up to Trump and his associates; exposing them for what they are.
     
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  14. BlueRidge

    BlueRidge AYS's snark-sponge

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    The only thing I would say is John Dean has never had to deal with a Donald Trump in the White House, Trump lies when he doesn't need to, makes things up when he's not in trouble and gets himself in trouble, etc. Just a caveat to Dean's look at things.

    I am unclear about the whole investigation thing. What would people be charged with if they were found to have done something illegal? Is there a charge for "colluding with a foreign government to undermine US elections?" I haven't seen any articles going into the legal side of this, if anyone finds one would love a link.
     
  15. skatesindreams

    skatesindreams Well-Known Member

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    Would any of this contribute to the "high crimes and misdemeanors" which could make the case for impeachment?
     
  16. BlueRidge

    BlueRidge AYS's snark-sponge

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    Only if there is a direct connection to Trump. There could be crimes involved by Trump campaign figures without it reaching to Trump at all.
     
  17. snoopy

    snoopy Team St. Petersburg

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    Even if they can't charge with Trump with anything, if he is proven a liar (again), it helps erode the support of the voters on the margins. Republicans got a lot of play out of calling Hillary a liar, and they would not be immune from Trump's own lying behavior.
     
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  18. skatesindreams

    skatesindreams Well-Known Member

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    It will be difficult to convince me that he is "out of the loop" about any of these activities; even if he claims otherwise.
     
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  19. Reuven

    Reuven Official FSU Alte Kacher

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    That development is probably whatever is good for Trump, Inc.
     
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  20. Buzz

    Buzz Well-Known Member

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    Oklahoma State senator Ralph Shortey is facing child prostitution charges after he was caught in a motel room with a 17 year old boy. His Wikipedia page describes him as a "family values" politician and has been backed by Sheriff Joe Arpaio. He is also a Donald Trump supporter.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-39331974
     
  21. Simone411

    Simone411 Covfefe! FSU Uber fan!

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    If without a doubt that Trump is proven a liar and made all of it up in order to divert the attention from Russia and the electoral hackings, isn't it possible that President Obama could sue Trump for slander or libel? I believe President Obama has the right to do that.
     
  22. Asli

    Asli Well-Known Member

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    Even if he has a right to sue for libel, wouldn't that divert the attention from other issues for even longer? The 44th president suing the 45th would be pretty big.
     
  23. Simone411

    Simone411 Covfefe! FSU Uber fan!

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    You're right about that. It sure would be pretty big. And maybe it will make Trump and his whole cabinet realize that truth is better than lying any old day. It would make a statement that it's not okay to lie, it's not okay to make up stuff and post or tweet out in the open that would make millions of people like his voters believe it. Lying is lying, and I don't care if it's coming from the Queen, the Pope or Ambassadors around the world ... it's not right to lie about something as major as Trump accusing Obama of wiretapping.
     
  24. Nomad

    Nomad Celebrity cheese-monger

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    I think it's more likely that Trumplethinskin would sue right back. That's his MO.
     
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  25. Simone411

    Simone411 Covfefe! FSU Uber fan!

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    Sue him for what, though? If it's proven that Trump lied, what can he sue Obama with or for? Maybe breathing perhaps?
     
  26. Nomad

    Nomad Celebrity cheese-monger

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    No idea, really, but I've read several times that when he gets sued, his first instinct is to counter-sue on some bullsh*t charge. IIRC, his counter-suits regularly get thrown out, but that doesn't stop him.
     
  27. Simone411

    Simone411 Covfefe! FSU Uber fan!

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    Thanks for that, and I forgot about his counter-suits that don't make any sense at all.
     
  28. susan6

    susan6 Well-Known Member

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    At this point, whenever any politician runs on a "family values" platform, I assume he's probably cheating on his wife.

    While I wish Obama would go into Luther-mode (Luther is his anger translator), he won't. There is a tradition that former presidents do not openly critique the work of their successors. This tradition will go right out the door 4 years (or god forbid 8 years) from now.
     
  29. Asli

    Asli Well-Known Member

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    IMO this is a weakness of the US democracy. The outgoing president doesn't take part in the opposition, so the one person with the experience and the gravitas to actually keep the new president on his toes is left out of the political system.

    Obama is just 55 - way too young to spend his time doing charity work or giving some lectures. It'sa great shame that his talent and experience can't be used.
     
  30. MacMadame

    MacMadame Cat Lady-in-Training

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    He's re-activating the OFA to turn it into an organ of resistance. He's just not the figurehead/public face of the organization.
     
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