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"Controversial" Image of Father Bottle-Feeding His Child Edited Out of Advertisement

Discussion in 'Off The Beaten Track' started by PeterG, Mar 1, 2012.

  1. PeterG

    PeterG Well-Known Member

    Breastfeeding activists in New Zealand raised so much of a stink over an ad featuring a dad bottle-feeding his baby that the New Zealand government actually decided to edit the image above out of the ad.

    The ad is for an anti-smoking campaign in New Zealand. A rugby player and a musician appear in the ad. Due to pressure from breastfeeding activists, the image of Piri Weepu feeding his child was removed from the ad.

    From the article:

  2. barbk

    barbk Well-Known Member

    Does La Leche oppose pumping & storing milk? I certainly did that, and it never made me think that I wasn't breast feeding.
  3. danceronice

    danceronice Corgi Wrangler

    That's certainly the implication...
  4. Hannahclear

    Hannahclear Well-Known Member

    I really hated the LLL BF guide. It was very patronizing. Dr. Sears was worse. :blah:
    flutzilla1 and (deleted member) like this.
  5. Jot the Dot Dot

    Jot the Dot Dot Headstrong Buzzard

    Soory, LaLeche, but you're out of your er, league on this. If there shouldn't be any social stigma attached to a mother breast-feeding her infant, neither should there be any stigma to a father (or mother) bottle-feeding the child. Don't behave like the high-strung busybodies that made you form your organization to begin with.
    flutzilla1 and (deleted member) like this.
  6. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa discriminating and persnickety ballet aficionado

    FFS. I know pediatricians who had to admit dehydrated infants to the hospital because their LLL-brainwashed mothers didn't produce enough milk and wouldn't supplement on pain of death.
  7. maatTheViking

    maatTheViking Danish Ice Dance! Go Laurence & Nikolaj!

    I am strong proponent of breastfeeding, and I found the LLL guides a bit over the top - epecially trying to find information about pumping while returning to work and best introducing the bottle. I was very patronizing, I agree, something like: If you abeselutely have to pump and not feed your baby yourself, it is best that... (and some of the advice was good info, just horribly packaged). It was written as I should feel guiltly for returning to work before my baby was weaned - what bullshit.

    I can understand if they protested a mom bottlefeeding, instead of breastfeeding, but a dad? Dads being part of feeding baby is awesome!
  8. Hannahclear

    Hannahclear Well-Known Member

    Yeah, the whole: "You don't have to work; you just want to buy fancy shoes and take great vacations," thing was a bit much for me.
  9. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa discriminating and persnickety ballet aficionado

    The argument against pumping is not entirely unsubstantiated. Milk production is on supply and demand and nothing will empty out a breast like a hungry baby. The pump usually doesn't empty out as effectively although I did hear something about hospital grade pumps that do almost as well.

    Anyway, the short of it is that if you pump, you will likely make less milk and are more likely to end up supplementing. However, many women pump and don't supplement.

    I also think that giving fathers an opportunity to feed the baby (pumped breast milk) is great. IME, dads are so much more involved these days. Feminism works both ways.

    Also, I don't know how real this is but I found this entry on Yahoo Answers:

    More from LLL:

    That's the natural path of their fanaticism, innit.
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2012
  10. myhoneyhoney

    myhoneyhoney Well-Known Member

    Hubby and I bottle fed our 3 kids, our 4th baby was exclusively breast fed past 1 year.... that said, I CAN'T STAND LE LECHE LEAGUE!!! Very sad that the clip was taken out. :(
    flutzilla1 and (deleted member) like this.
  11. barbk

    barbk Well-Known Member

    I saw a mom breastfeeding a three/four year old and a baby at the same time, so I didn't think much would surprise me -- but offering to let other adults suckle? Uh, no thanks.
  12. Allskate

    Allskate Well-Known Member

    There are a lot of moms who work and therefore pump and bottle-feed. I don't get protesting that either. And there are all sorts of reasons moms have to stop breastfeeding. I've had friends and family whose doctors instructed them to stop for medical reasons.
  13. maatTheViking

    maatTheViking Danish Ice Dance! Go Laurence & Nikolaj!

    I understand - I was more saying that from the point of view of 'promoting breast feeding' I can understand protesting a picture of a mom bottle feeding (since without context it will be understood to be formula?) - but even within their viewpoint I don't see how they can protest a dad giving a bottle?
  14. milanessa

    milanessa engaged to dupa

  15. Prancer

    Prancer Cursed for all time Staff Member

    For the Leaguers, breast-feeding isn’t only the best source of sustenance for a baby physically but the quintessential maternal experience.

    That was sure the impression I got from LLL--it's not really about feeding a baby at all, but about TRUE MOTHERHOOD. :blah:
    flutzilla1 and (deleted member) like this.
  16. Japanfan

    Japanfan Well-Known Member

    But shouldn't a woman be free to choose whether she wants to directly breast-freed, pump, or use formula - or any combination of the above?

    I was recently surprised when a friend who works for a day care on the infant side said that many of the moms she dealt with had chosen not to breast feed. And my niece chose to pump rather than breastfeed because breastfeeding hurt. I remember how my mom - who did not breastfeed - was distressed by sister's (my niece's mom) struggle to follow LL. When I was talking to my sister about my niece, I learned that she actually had a difficult time breastfeeding and eventually gave it up.

    So, my impression that breast-feeding is very much in vogue these days seems to be incorrect. I'm all for women being free to choose how they feed their babies and think there are far, far greater injustices performed again children than formula-feeding.

    But I have to wonder - having never had kids - given that breastfeeding was the only way women could feed babies for thousands of years - why is is to hard?

    Is it the loss of women's lore and wisdom that occurred in the advent of male-dominated science and medicine? Or was it always hard?

    I also think that giving fathers an opportunity to feed the baby (pumped breast milk) is great. IME, dads are so much more involved these days. Feminism works both ways.
  17. Hannahclear

    Hannahclear Well-Known Member


  18. Badams

    Badams Well-Known Member

    when I had my first baby, LLL came into my room to talk to me about breastfeeding. I had told the nurses that I was going to try to breastfeed, but that I was not in any way against formula feeding. So the LLL freak comes in one day and asks me if she can help me while I'm trying to breastfeed and naturally I say yes, thinking she's going to give me some tips. She comes over, pulls up my hospital gown, and starts squishing my boobs around with her bare hands! Later that same day, another lady from LLL comes in and tells me that my baby wasn't getting enough to eat, had lost too much weight, I needed to try harder or else the hospital will send me home without my baby and she would be in the hospital all alone...I got furious and called the nurse and demanded they give me bottles with formula. I don't like being screwed with. When the LLL people came back, I told them to get the hell out of my room and they were no longer welcome. Nobody told me they were just extra and couldn't come in if I said no. I thought I had no choice. For my next 2 babies they never made it past the threshold.
    flutzilla1 and (deleted member) like this.
  19. MacMadame

    MacMadame Cat Lady-in-Training

    Well, yes, when it's a real choice.

    But a lot of women "chose" not to breastfeed because they are given bad advice (or no advice) or because of myths about it. That's not making an informed decision, IMO.

    We have lost a lot of lore about breastfeeding because women in our society are so much more isolated than they were when fewer people worked outside the home or lived in cities and suburbs.

    I had friends when I had my second child who were all SAHM who went to the same church and they had formed a little community and they all breastfed and they helped each other out and traded tips and things like that and they were much more successful at breastfeeding than the average mom. I think the fact that they all watched each other breastfeed and there were experienced moms to help the inexperienced ones really made a difference.

    What frustrates me is when medical professionals give out bad advice. Like my OB told me I had to keep injecting myself with heparin after Mini-Mac was born because the pill blood thinners weren't allowed during breastfeeding because they "get in the milk". Well, I knew that they had only been detected at subclinical levels (which means they wouldn't hurt the baby) and some types weren't detected at all, but I didn't care enough about the issue to argue so I kept shooting myself up even though it was a PITA. But I bet there are women out there who just can't take the needles who decide not to breastfeed so they can go on the pills. After all, their doctor told them they can't breastfeed while on that medicine, so it must be true, right?

    And that's just sad.
  20. barbk

    barbk Well-Known Member

    Hmmm... it has been a lot of years, but my hospital had a lactation nurse who came around and helped with nursing questions; I think for mom's who went home the same day/next day they had her make a home visit. I found her really helpful -- D didn't like nursing in the "standard" position but was happy as a clam in the "football" hold. I remember that she was available by phone or by appointment for follow-up questions.
  21. nerdycool

    nerdycool Well-Known Member

    I think a lot of women now give up easily because there is another option to get their babies fed. I guarantee that if formula didn't exist, the women you mentioned would have breastfed even if it hurt like hell every single time. Either that, or they'd find a wet nurse.

    Re: the topic of the thread, I think it's ridiculous that LLL opposed this ad. I'm currently pregnant with my 1st, and will be a SAHM, but I will be pumping occasionally just so DH can have the opportunity to feed the baby and bond. I won't lie, I think it'll also be nice to get an occasional break from being the human milk machine. :)
  22. Kasey

    Kasey Correcting President Trump's grammar on Twitter :)

    Ah yes, long live the nanny state.

    My sister just went back to work this week after having twins in December. Her husband is going to be "Mr Mom" (since she makes more, he quit to be full time nanny for the first few years). She pumps and saves breast milk, but they also supplement with formula as well, because she can't make enough to keep up with two seriously hungry beasts. I guess she's not a true mother, and of course, her husband isn't one at all. For shame!!
  23. julieann

    julieann Well-Known Member

    I thought the argument was breast milk was best for the baby, who cares what nipple it comes from? I pumped and and whoever it was fed my child, as long as it was breast milk for as long as I could produce it, I don't see a problem.
  24. agalisgv

    agalisgv Well-Known Member

    The actual sucking mechanism is important too. Babies suckle differently with a synthetic nipple as opposed to an actual breast, and there are health benefits associated with suckling on an actual breast.

    FTR, I'm not involved, nor ever have been, with any LLL.
  25. genevieve

    genevieve drinky typo pbp, closet hugger Staff Member

    LLL is like PETA - the core cause is worthy, but the tactics are batshit and it becomes more about the people in the group than the original purpose.
    flutzilla1 and (deleted member) like this.
  26. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa discriminating and persnickety ballet aficionado

    Of course! That's a given.

    I think it was always hard but it really depends on the baby's style of nursing. There are some gentle ones and there are barracudas. I had a little barracuda that took a layer of skin off every time. The lactation consultant said everything was correct, the latch, the hold. But that was just him, an aggressive feeder. I cried every time and used tons of Lansinol (sp?) And I also pumped because I went back to school 3 weeks after he was born. Or as soon as I could sit. :shuffle:

    As to your second question: I think it was the 50s that lived under the slogan "Better living through chemistry" which is rather the reverse of what's in vogue now, everything natural, not man-made. So formula was erroneously considered superior to breast milk.

    Last edited: Mar 2, 2012
  27. maatTheViking

    maatTheViking Danish Ice Dance! Go Laurence & Nikolaj!

    I think we have 'lost' a lot of knowledge by not being around other nursing mothers - and by having babies late. My mom had me when she was 35, I had my first when I was 32. I asked my mom questions and she mostly said - hmm I don't remember :p. I bet if I had had a baby when I was 18 she would have!
    We also used to have a community of helping with babies - and many many years ago it was more natural for women to just have suckling babes and later the community of women were 'hidden away' but probably still do it. ( I believe some of the issues with people opposing breast feedign in public comes from the prude years, but now women want to be part of public life AND feed their babies)

    Luckily for me, the hospital had their own lactation nurses, who were realistic and nice - and they put the baby health above all else. Mini-viking was 4 weeks early, and he could latch on, but he would spend too many calories trying to suck - he was allowed to suck for a few min. They recommended to finger feed him rather than using a bottle (using a syringe and tube on our finger), using either pumped milk or formula if I couldn't pump enough. At 14 days, he moved to the breast exclusively with no trouble.

    I think their priority was at it should be:
    1. get the baby enough nutrition
    2. get the baby breast milk
    3. get the baby nursing on the breast
  28. danceronice

    danceronice Corgi Wrangler

    On the 'only way for thousands of years', well, yes. Though bottles have also existed for thousands of years, wet-nursing used to be common, and when those weren't options when a woman couldn't produce enough, well, the kid died and that was that. Losing an infant or two used to be less "OMG TRAGEDY" than "such is life."
    bardtoob and (deleted member) like this.
  29. maatTheViking

    maatTheViking Danish Ice Dance! Go Laurence & Nikolaj!

    I agree - there are reasons infant mortality is that low, formula is one of them.
    I still believe that nursing is an awesome feeling - if it works - and breast milk is best for baby - if there is enough.

    I wonder if before formula people would try animal milk if they couldn't nurse the baby for some reason and had no wetnurse available?
  30. cygnus

    cygnus Well-Known Member

    I some cultures, goat's milk was considered the next best thing to mother's milk.