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Christine Brennan's Article on USA Ladies: "U.S. women's skating lacks dominant star"

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by TheIronLady, Jan 25, 2013.

  1. Alex Forrest

    Alex Forrest Banned Member

    It was just judges holding up favorites. Seriously, you thought Kwan was all IJS, gurrrl? Ah man, my Brooklyn accent is coming out. Oh gawd.
  2. Iceman

    Iceman Well-Known Member

    Gold does have a pr machine, IMG. Saying she is a star after this one competition is absurd and those doing it might have egg on their faces after the competition this week. She did succeed in licking some of the icing off Ashley's cake. If Gold turns out to be as "gold" as some expect, Ashely's reign may be as short lived as those other ladies in recent years.
  3. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

    That's the best thing about conspiracy theories. They're not falsifiable so you can say any deluded thing you want and nobody can prove you wrong no matter how crazy or bitter.
  4. skatesindreams

    skatesindreams Well-Known Member

    We get it, AF: You don't think that Michelle Kwan's skating was "worthy".
    You can stop now.
    kwanette and (deleted member) like this.
  5. kwanette

    kwanette Fetalized since 1998

    Gracie's tweet came shortly after this one from Ashley:

    Ashley Wagner‏@AshWagner2010

    Wow, people can be really mean. It wasn't my dream program..trust me I'm aware, but u can't understand how it feels til ur out there urself
  6. demetriosj

    demetriosj Well-Known Member

    Oh, please. The Gold team had her put out that tweet to do some damage control after her pouty face was caught on camera when she realized she had not beaten Ashley, and for the condescending remarks she had about Ashley and Agnes afterwards.

    They are chomping at the bit for her to beat the two-time National champ at World's, so the insincerity of that tweet is nauseating. Her true feelings were revealed at Nationals.

    What she said in her tweet is all she should have said at Nationals....
    IceAlisa and (deleted member) like this.
  7. TheIronLady

    TheIronLady Well-Known Member

    What's wrong with her being a little feisty and arrogant? She isn't trying out to be your ideal daughter. I don't get why people are treating her like her behavior is unsportsmanlike. I think she sincerely respects Ashley and her rivals, even if she is obviously a little high strung. Like I said, reality and real attitudes are what make life and sports interesting. She doesn't have to be a politician 24/7. Lord knows when skating was popular-- in the 80s and 90s-- the top ladies and their mothers were down to earth and honest. I'm not saying tolerate skaters who intentionally act crazy and disrespectful of others, but don't try to shun every genuine competitive or diva-like attitude that is expressed.
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2013
  8. centerpt1

    centerpt1 Well-Known Member

    Probably just perception. No one griped when Ashley broke through last year, because she had been around a long time as a Sr, had paid her dues, battled through injury and a coaching change.

    Gracie has had a lot of push and press and promo. Sometimes all that , PLUS a snarky face and attitude turns folks off.

    To receive pre-favor and have attitude=not favorable response

    To have paid your dues and have attitude=not necessarily a bad thing
  9. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I <3 Kozuka

    Actually, looking up the levels, which are done by the technical panels, by the way, so it was a true Kwanspiracy to hold her up, there were very few skaters that were all IJS at the time. Kostner, who was less "all IJS" than Kwan, beat her to the podium. Two that were most IJS friendly in 2005 were the gold and silver medalist, but Arakawa, the next in line, faultered badly in the FS. The ones whom she beat in Moscow, not so much, and not many skaters were landing their stuff in both the SP and FS. But why let a few facts get in the way?

    When Kwan competed with IJS, there weren't more than a handful of IJS-friendly skaters period, and now, nine seasons into it, they are the big majority levels-wise. It's one thing to argue that a skater from the past was already IJS-friendly based on actual things they did in their 6.0 programs, like Ruh's spins, for example. It's silly to argue that skater X from that era by definition would never have been able to master IJS had it been the norm when they were competing, because the large majority who had low levels in the beginning of IJS increased their levels to become competitive, and the skaters born into the system start out aiming for those levels. Even Joubert can spin now.
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2013
  10. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa discriminating and persnickety ballet aficionado

    Alright, the tweet could be a PR move from Team Gold. May be they are reading FSU. :lol:
  11. overedge

    overedge Janny uber

    How do you know this?
  12. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

    Quotable Quote, Iceman! Maybe even the top quote of the Championships?

    Wading into this thread with my eyes open, but maybe I should close them and take cover. :yikes: :lol:

    Gracie will be fine. Ashley will be fine. Allow them to breathe and support them equally please. We've got some U.S. ladies contenders, and let's just be thankful and enjoy it. Why stir up the "intense rivalry" pot? Why give USFS more fodder for favoritism antics?

    As it is now, up on IceNetwork there's a poll asking: Which performance from the 2013 U.S. Figure Skating Championships was the most unforgettable?

    I picked Meryl and Charlie myself. I don't see that anyone else topped them performance-wise, magical-wise, transcendant-wise, so I refuse to believe that the IN poll results accurately reflect the reality. Right now, the poll is stating:

    42% Gracie Gold fs; 29% Max Aaron fs; and only 27% Meryl and Charlie free dance. What!? I can't believe that. GG PR working overtime?! It's gotta be a Rigged Conspiracy!!! :sekret: :puppet: :lol: :p

    BTW, I'm not betting on the odds for either, but I believe that Ashley and Gracie both can do a lot of positive damage in the World standings and I absolutely 100% support them both. Gracie is learning how to compete and she's thrown down the gauntlet, but she needs to stay cool, and walk quietly with her big 3/3 sticks and textbook jump technique. Also, I hope Gracie and her team will lose the simplistic marching sequence in her fs and come up with something more interesting. She needs to continue honing herself and maturing, and not get ahead of herself. Vs. Gracie, I feel that Ashley is the most mature in terms of presentation, sportsmanship and competition experience. Plus Ash is a spirited veteran and a fighter. You Go Ladies!!
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2013
  13. MacMadame

    MacMadame Cat Lady-in-Training

    Plenty of people griped about things Ashley said and did last year.

    Or, as in this case, a lame rant. ;)
  14. demetriosj

    demetriosj Well-Known Member

  15. kwanette

    kwanette Fetalized since 1998

    Post of the day.:rofl:
  16. demetriosj

    demetriosj Well-Known Member

  17. demetriosj

    demetriosj Well-Known Member

    Most US families cannot afford the cost of competitive figure skating, and US skaters are not subsidized in any way by the government, as in other countries.
  18. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

    ;) Ah yes. And definitely it's a silly, throwaway spur-of-the-moment poll. Still, I would have had Meryl and Charlie ahead. Maybe it goes to show that more people (or at least the people who voted) are more into the singles events than the ice dance event. As far as "rigged conspiracy," I was cheekily referring to the poll, not to the actual Nationals competition nor to the judging. :D
  19. leesaleesa

    leesaleesa Active Member

    A good thing I was never a skater-That bronze medal would have been kicked, stomped on, spit on, tossed in the toilet, peed on, and flushed. Now that's being a sore loser.

    Gracie is fine. She's a pretty girl with red lipstick who jumps well. She needs her hair fixed more than she needs damage control.
  20. fenway2

    fenway2 Well-Known Member

    Yeah, I fail to see how running off crying makes somebody a poor loser. That's ridiculous.

    Throwing a medal on the floor or in the trash, sure. Running off crying? No way.
  21. iarispiralllyof

    iarispiralllyof Active Member

    Marry me.

    Well, the USFSA callers said that she did, but who knows? If she had been trained even as a child under IJS things could have been very different.
    There are a number of successful skaters under IJS who are about as inflexible as Michelle who were able to level up since there are a variety of ways to get a level 3 spin. Few skaters in 2005-2006 understood IJS well enough to maximize their base scores. At the time, many found their levels varying dramatically from competition to competition.

    I just can't at your double standard in judging her footwork. For her time, she had among the best footwork for the ladies. Who was receiving higher levels then?

    How is this just "arms and smiles" - by 2005 standards, this was one of the best at the time


    Sasha and Irina received the same levels (level 2) on their footwork, and both managed to eventually raise it to level 3. Likewise with Carolina Kostner and countless other skaters who started out with lower level footwork. Hell, Joannie Rochette had a level 1 step sequence and raised it to level 3 with positive GOE by 2010. Yet somehow magically to you Michelle is a special case O_O

    In fact, at the 2005 world championships, during the free skate Michelle had the highest GOE of all the ladies on her footwork

    So to sum up:

    A resounding yes on spirals and footwork.
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2013
  22. RD

    RD Well-Known Member


    I can't believe how some still seem to be stuck in the dark ages...I mean, come on - there have been FAR WORSE things said that fans virtually ignore!
  23. LuckyCharm

    LuckyCharm Well-Known Member

    :lol:You should switch to decaf!

    On Gold, I like the hair, love the jumps, hate the lipstick.
  24. skateboy

    skateboy Well-Known Member

    Umm... do you mind telling why?
  25. RD

    RD Well-Known Member

    The good thing about Gracie Gold is she will keep Wagner on her toes nationally. Wagner just NARROWLY avoided getting upset by her and cannot afford to coast along and rely solely on "street cred" each time. Competition is always a good thing, it makes everyone better in the end...

    Zawadzki probably won't be the one to really challenge Wagner since she (AZ) lacks the consistency. But Gold definitely will be nipping at her heels (and perhaps even Hicks might, too, once she establishes herself)

    ETA: of course, this assumes both a) an upward path for the challengers and b) no downward path for Wagner, i.e. she doesn't take herself out of it like Czisny, Flatt, Nagasu, etc.
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2013
  26. Japanfan

    Japanfan Well-Known Member

    The US has long relied on an ice princess to be the face of figure skating in the country. They're packaged , they're marketing, and they sell not only tickets to events and shows, but also products. Michelle was the spokeswoman for Barbey and Disney, etc., etc., etc. I remember reading about all that way done to package Nancy Kerrigan and to transform her from a blue collar worker's daughter into an ice princess. . .

    Point is, it works - it gets the public interested in the sport and the person. And the US isn't the only country looking for its next bright star, just look at all the hype Chan got in Canada over the years.

    FS just isn't all that popular in the US - even less popular than it is in Canada.

    Having a skater in winning contention to focus on is always a good PR tool. The US could certainly do more to promote the sport - for starters, new NBC commentators. Not to mention how poor the FS coverage is on US networks - even poorer than it is on Canadian networks. If you don't air events, you don't get an audience.

    A star ice princess would undeniably help motivate interest in FS in the US, so it's no surprise that there is an endless search for the 'next one' - at the moment, Gold is the it girl.
  27. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa discriminating and persnickety ballet aficionado

    I do hope it means they will do a better dye job on Gold and get rid of those roots. Her peroxide blond color is just not championship level. :drama: :glamor:
  28. TheIronLady

    TheIronLady Well-Known Member

    Who said those ladies are all done? Injured and/or inconsistent they are, but we cannot predict their demise yet.

    See, if I were important or chummy enough to be interviewed by Brennan, I would not play into this where is the next ice princess/Disney corporate spokeswoman question. At the least I would have encouraged some sort of interest in rivalry between Agnes and Gracie, and emphasized that Ashley has beaten Mao. I would communicate something that would not put unhelpful expectations on the individual skaters (like a bunch of hoopla about the next princess Gracie, which has unfortunately been driveling out since Alissa under-performed at last year's nats). It is better than what these US old hands did by complaining to Christine that everything sucks because there is no Kwan.
  29. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

    Personally, I don't think Ashley Wagner needs anyone "nipping at her heels at senior Nationals" in order to stoke her competitive fires to be ready to take on the World. Ashley has already experienced many times all the ups and downs of Nationals competition. What's different is that she's now the one on top. And also, U.S. Nationals is the hardest Nationals competition in the World (with Japan, Canada and Russia also among the most difficult depending upon the discipline). I don't think Ashley needed Gracie Gold, nor anyone else to help her realize that defending and winning again at Nationals would not be easy. Ashley knew that going in, and I'm pretty sure she wasn't sitting back reading her press clippings, resting on her laurels, admiring her medal load of last year, and saying to herself, "I got this."

    As Ashley and others have said, trying to defend your title is more difficult than winning it in the first place. Ashley learned a lot and she persevered even not at full strength. In that sense, this Nationals has been good for Ashley. She understands the importance of adding more difficulty to her programs, and I think she will do well at Worlds if she's completely healthy. Ashley is the one who took a hard look at her skating career and decided not to give up on her dreams. She made the necessary sacrifices and got the coaching help she needed to pull everything together with fire and desire. Ashley will keep her own self on her own toes with no assistance needed from any of her competitors.

    Gracie Gold's journey is just beginning, and I think it's helpful for Gracie to have a veteran like Ashley Wagner setting an example as a competitor and as a teammate. Courtney Hicks is a talented jumper who seems to be in a great hurry, but she still has a very long way to go. Agnes is extremely talented too, but sometimes a la Ashley Wagner, there comes a time when as an athlete you've got to take stock of where you stand, what you want, and how hard you're willing to work. And then, you've got to figure out what you need to achieve your goals, how to go about getting what you need, and above all, what you are willing to give up to get what you need.

    As far as "street cred," according to Tara Lipiniski (who recently aptly used that term in a fs context), that's getting into Mao Asada territory ... so 4CCs in Osaka, Japan will indeed be interesting. :)

    I wouldn't lump Czisny, Flatt, and Nagasu into one dismissive category of "having taken themselves out of it." That doesn't make the least bit of sense to me in regard to describing these former U.S. ladies champions ... not in any way, shape or form.
  30. leesaleesa

    leesaleesa Active Member

    I was being facetious. Except for the part where I would have kicked it.
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2013