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Best skater of Kwan/Slutskaya era- Kwan or Slutskaya

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by frillit, Jul 14, 2013.

Best skater of Kwan and Slutskaya era

  1. Slutskaya

    106 vote(s)
  2. Kwan

    142 vote(s)
  3. neither, someone else

    8 vote(s)
  1. frillit

    frillit Banned Member

    Who was the best skater of the Slutskaya/Kwan era. Was it Irina Slutskaya or Michelle Kwan. Kwan has the edge in World medals 9 to 6, but Irina has the big edge in Grand Prix final titles 4 to 1, and all those European titles while Kwan always bypassed Four Continents. Irina at the Olympics has a silver, bronze, and 5th vs Kwan who has a silver, bronze, and WD, so slightly better there too. I think Irina has more grand prix wins, and was a more regular participient. Both have a Goodwill Games. Irina was the much better technical skater and Kwan the better presentation skater.
  2. frillit

    frillit Banned Member

    People like Asada and Kim are not part of this era by the way.
  3. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

    What ??? Kwan is not leading this poll ???

    I voted for Michelle, of course :)
  4. Lnt175

    Lnt175 Member

    I choose Kwan simply because her overall skating was stronger. Also the FCCs in Kwan's time was not considered an important event at all comparable to Europeans. Slutskaya does have more GPFs and GP wins, but Kwan has more world medals/titles, and had a better Olympics in 98 than Slutskaya had in 02 and 06.
  5. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

    3 extra World titles > 3 extra Grand Prix final titles. Had Irina won 1 of the 3 Worlds she lost to Michelle and it been 4 World titles to 3, or had she won the 2006 Olympics she would have a decent case. However as it is defnitely Michelle.

    Plus her skating was more complete, rich, and polished, and she was more in the image of what people would like to see in ladies skating.
  6. AndyWarhol

    AndyWarhol Well-Known Member

    Kwan. I can't believe Slutskaya is winning atm!
  7. DarrellH

    DarrellH New Member

    Kwan. The reason being, you asked for best skater, not best results.
  8. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

    Wouldnt Kwan be best results as well however?
  9. BmcC102

    BmcC102 Active Member

    Go KWEEN!
  10. BigB08822

    BigB08822 Well-Known Member

    I am not sure it is fair to give Slutskaya the edge in Olympics when Kwan didn't compete in one of them. That season was not really a part of the Kwan/Slutskaya era as Kwan was done in 2005. So, IMO, Kwan edges out Slutskaya since when they were both competing Kwan got a silver and bronze whereas Slutskaya was 5th and a silver. Overall it is no contest, Kwan was a much better skater. You can prefer one over the other all you like but I don't think many skating experts would try and say Slutskaya was a better SKATER.
  11. Marco

    Marco Well-Known Member

    Kwan was by far the better skater.
  12. DarrellH

    DarrellH New Member

    Yes, but that is the only viable argument that anyone could have. Kwan had much better technique, and style.
  13. skateboy

    skateboy Well-Known Member

    What happened to the poll? I don't see any "buttons."
  14. skateboy

    skateboy Well-Known Member

    Okay, they're back now.
  15. DannyCurry

    DannyCurry Active Member

    No, my vote only got them tied. How can Slutskaya be considered on par with Michelle???
    Irina could do some great footwork on one foot that covered the whole length of the rink and she had really good speed but other than that, in what way was her skating better?
    I mean, even when you compare their crossovers, MK should win hands down!!
  16. kwanatic

    kwanatic Well-Known Member

    They pushed each other from about 2000-2002 but prior to that Irina wasn't on Michelle's level. She was a podium threat but I don't believe she beat Michelle prior to that time. 2003/2004 Irina was gone and by the time she came back in 2005 Michelle was on her last leg.

    Results aside, Michelle was a much more complete skater than Irina was. Irina was a fast powerful jumper with good (yet sloppy) spins but she never could match Michelle in terms of polish, presentation, artistry or consistency. Irina was the better GP skater during that span of time they went head to head but she was unable to sustain that level over the course of the season and often lost to Michelle at worlds.

    4CC is a negligible competition when you talk about these two. 4CC didn't become a big deal until 2008 when the top world competitors started showing up...way after both Michelle and Irina had retired from the sport.

    Irina was a great competitor but in terms of the better overall skater, there's no competition.
  17. IceJunkie

    IceJunkie Well-Known Member

    Slutskaya was an infamously sloppy skater. She did have big jumps, which counts for something.

    Michelle won where it mattered most, at Worlds. (except Slutskaya placed above her in SLC, but both LPs were not good. She also beat in her in several GPFs)

    I'd say Michelle simply because she was more aesthetically pleasing to watch and was a very textbook skater. Slute was all over the place.
  18. Simone411

    Simone411 Covfefe! FSU Uber fan!

    I voted for Michelle overall in this case.
  19. orientalplane

    orientalplane Mad for mangelwurzels

    I'd say Irina simply because she was more aesthetically pleasing to watch.
  20. Domshabfan

    Domshabfan A proud P/C fan

    Irina for me ...
  21. sk8ingcoach

    sk8ingcoach Active Member

    Now im not a fan of kwan. But it is clear she was the overall better skater
  22. usova94gold

    usova94gold Active Member

    It is close but I chose the superior technical skater over the superior presentation skater, since while figure skating is both a sport and art, I believe it is a sport first and art second. Both technical and artistic abilities are important, and while Kwan has much inferior technical abilities to Irina, and Irina inferior artistic abilities to Michelle, both still are pretty good in both and combine both well. Although there are skaters even in very recent times who combine technical and artistic better than both- Yamaguchi, Asada, Kim, Kostner on a good day, possibly Ito.
  23. usova94gold

    usova94gold Active Member

    I am sure in the U.S there are almost no experts who would say that, just like in Russia probably almost all experts would be biased and say Slutskaya. What a neutral country expert would say I really dont know, but Eurosport commentators over the years which have no Russians are atleast as favorable in their praise of Irina as they are Michelle.
  24. OliviaPug

    OliviaPug Well-Known Member

    How was Kwan inferior technically to Slutskaya?

    Likewise, how was Slutskaya inferior to Kwan artistically or presentation-wise?

    Your statements seem like gross generalizations that are not fair to either skater or representative of their respective abilities.

  25. usova94gold

    usova94gold Active Member

    IMO Slutskaya superior technically since she had much higher and more powerful jumps, a truer lutz, could do much harder jump combinations, had stronger spins, had as strong or stronger footwork, and skated with more speed and power.

    Kwan stronger in presentation since she had much better lines, positions, more elegance, more grace, more style, more maturity and sophistication, and a more dainty quality. She also usually interpreted music better, although there are a few exceptions.
  26. usova94gold

    usova94gold Active Member

    You say my comments are generalizations yet most have said including commentators and experts that Irina is the strongest technical skater of the Kwan field, and Kwan the strongest artistic skater of the Irina field, and one is stronger than the other in the other. How is it a generalization when I am only saying what everyone else has said. The debate to who is better is evaluating their careers and whether one feels the overall technical gap or overall presentation gap is more, but there doesnt seem any question which side each is stronger than the other in. Have you ever heard an expert say Kwan was the better technical skater or Irina the better presentation skater.
  27. OliviaPug

    OliviaPug Well-Known Member

    Repeating others' generalizations does not make them any less generalized and does not make them fact.

    Irina rarely landed difficult jump combinations in competition. I believe Kwan landed more 3/3s in competition than Irina did in their respective careers. I'm sure both ladies could land difficult jump combinations in practice. In fact, I saw them both do that on a number of occasions (having attended several competitions over the years). Irina's jump landings often came to a standstill while Kwan had far more flow out of her jumps. Irina usually got more height than Kwan did on her jumps, but not always and not all jumps. These are just a few examples of specifics.

    You're entitled to your opinion, usova94gold, but it would carry more weight if you pointed to specifics and backed up your opinion rather than regurgitated what others have said.

  28. query5

    query5 New Member

    michelle for me.

    i could saya lot of things but michelle for me for winning the 5 worlds,

    shouldnt count europeans since couldn't compete anyway. 4cc neither did sasha, sarah, . but in fact irina one with 3jumps shouldn't have but did.
    during that time it was perceived if one won the gp final, the other skated well and won worlds. sometimes worked out sometimes didnt.

    irina is a great skater.

    but these polls between skaters is more personally perference anyway
  29. blue_idealist

    blue_idealist Well-Known Member

    While Kwan wasn't as good as she was in the late '90s, she was still better (results-wise and skating-wise) than Slutskaya. Btw, when do you consider the Kwan and Slutskaya era to have started? 2000? 2002?
  30. Marco

    Marco Well-Known Member

    Slute could outjump and outspin Kwan, but could never attain the same level of quality and precision to her skating like Kwan did. She never had the same body awareness - Kwan almost always knew how her arms or legs (and most importantly, her back) should be positioned.

    Kwan had displayed a variety of positions on deep edges (spread eagle, hydroblade, edge pulls, ina bauers etc). I don't remember Slute doing many (or any) of those, nor do I remember Slute doing many (or any) split jumps or leaps.