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Best comeback free program after a disastrous short

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Lnt175, Jun 19, 2013.

  1. kukkura

    kukkura Active Member

    In 2009 Europeans Yannick Ponsero was 9th in the SP and won the LP. KVDP beat him by 0,06 points to get bronze only because he skated in the final group. It was the first time I saw both of them skate live and I was astounded by Ponsero's speed and KVDP's non-speed.

    Last edited: Jun 20, 2013
  2. robinhood

    robinhood Active Member

    I think it would have been great to put the video links, if available. I'll edit my previous post to include them
    Most of these performances were career best for the skaters
  3. robinhood

    robinhood Active Member

  4. orientalplane

    orientalplane Mad for mangelwurzels

    No one could skate if they really had the flu. Flu is a serious illness that kills large numbers of people every year. What he, or his coach, or the commentators meant was that he had a bad cold. So, kudos to him for skating with a bad cold, but it wasn't the flu.

    In major telling the unvarnished truth mood today.
  5. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

    Did you run the tests? While people do call colds the flu, not everyone gets a severe case of the flu, and it is shocking what athletes can work through.

    Not the flu, but I did competitive dance through a case of mono, my now husband ended up hospitalized when he had mono. Reactions differ, as does severity of -every- illness.
  6. blue_idealist

    blue_idealist Well-Known Member

    I remember Marie-Claude Savard-Gagnon and Luc Bradet skated with the flu at the '98 Olympics and they were so sick, or at least one of them was, that they had to stop during the performance. I believe that skaters do skate with the flu.. maybe it isn't the most severe flu ever, but it's the flu nonetheless. Now, something like pneumonia, that's another story. Has anyone ever heard of a skater skating with pneumonia? Just curious.
  7. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

    I haven't found it on youtube. But I remember it was pretty good considering her ranking after the SP.
  8. orientalplane

    orientalplane Mad for mangelwurzels

    I have an old friend who is a hospital consultant. One day he told me a little story to illustrate the difference between a cold and the flu. He said, "Imagine a house with a 100 metre (or yard) drive. Inside the house there's someone in bed with either a bad cold or the flu. There's no one else in the house. At the far end of the drive, someone places an envelope containing £50 (or whatever that converts to in your country's currency) on the ground. This person then walks down the drive, goes into the house and tells the person in bed that at the end of the drive, there's £50 waiting for him. If the person in bed has a bad cold, he will get up, feeling bloody awful, put on a few clothes to make himself decent, and go out to retrieve the envelope. If that person has the flu, he won't go because he can't."

    I'm not a doctor myself, but it's true that this was his illustration. If a person really has the flu, they're pretty well confined to bed for around two weeks. Otherwise it wouldn't be the killer disease that it is. I have another friend who does seem a bit prone to catching colds because of her work environment. She's always phoning me and saying, "I can't do such-and-such because I've got the flu again." She thinks she's had it about six or seven times this year. In reality, she hasn't had it once.
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2013
  9. SkateFan66

    SkateFan66 Active Member

    I am not sure what the exact diagnosis was; however, prior to his free skate at the 2006 World Championship, the commentators mentioned that Lysacek was still taking antibiotics for the illness that he had at the Olympics. Moreover, prior to his free skate at the Olympics, Lysacek was taking IV treatments.

    ETA: Had a chance to watch the video from 2006 WC. The commentators stated Lysacek was taking antibiotics for a bacterial infection.
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2013
  10. PrincessLeppard

    PrincessLeppard Holding Alex Johnson's Pineapple

    Antibiotics don't do anything for the flu.
  11. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

    A few years ago I had a blood test that showed that I had already had mono at some point in my life. I couldn't tell you when because I never felt it; not all mono cases are created equal.

    Real flu - that is, influenza, not colds or other illnesses that are erroneously called the flu - does not, to the best of my knowledge, come in mild versions. Whatever Lysacek had in Turin, it is very unlikely that it was the flu. This does not mean his performance wasn't impressive - although it should be pointed out that it's not unprecedented for skaters to do well despite illness and injury (e.g several skaters in Nagano were dealing with worse).
  12. OliviaPug

    OliviaPug Well-Known Member

    Flu can cause mild to severe illness. (Check out the differences between Influenza A, B, C, which can cause no symptoms at all.) No flu is created equal; there are a variety of symptoms as well. Lysacek could have VERY easily had the flu. Not that it matters. He skated well despite whatever illness he had.

  13. AYS

    AYS I'd rather have a pug for my president

    By his own description he had a stomach ailment - not any sort of respiratory infection at all - that's why he was getting IV fluids. He called it the stomach flu, but that's a common misnomer - it is not associated with influenza, which indeed lays you out - and is typically associated with much more severe symptoms than mono, although mono can go from practically asymptomatic - just general tiredness or sore throat - to completely debilitating.


    Regardless, agree, it was a very good comeback.

    Poor Caryn Kadavy really had the flu in '88 and couldn't skate the lp. :(
  14. cbd1235

    cbd1235 Well-Known Member

    Other than the very good ones already mentioned, the thing that pops into my head is Kwan at '97 Worlds. Not that the SP was disastrous or anything, it's more that she had a streak of bad programs all year then got it together for one heck of a free skate. Moved from 4th to 2nd in winning the Free.

    I also wish we would have seen Chen Lu's FS at the '97 worlds....Maybe she would have scraped her way into the Free then nailed it :D
  15. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Yuzuru, Medvedeva, T&M, Shibs, P&C

    I wish so too. However, I doubt that she would have nailed the LP to move up significantly. That was the year she went through a lot of problems, including splitting from her coach. They caused her to bomb the SP, and I don't think she would have done much better in the LP (although there was no mandatory deduction in the LP). However, this will be one of those 'What if's.
  16. fenway2

    fenway2 Well-Known Member

    Does anyone think Lu Chen was unfairly hammered in the short at 97 worlds? She had two jump errors, like Nicole Bobek did, but her program was terrific. Maybe she didn't have Bobek's spins to fall back on, but I fail to see how Bobek's short was worthy of top 8 but Lu Chen's couldn't even qualify for the long. What did I miss?

    Edited to Add: Also, unlike Bobek, Lu Chen had a jump combination.
  17. PairSk8Fan

    PairSk8Fan Banned Member

    Well, Lu had several OMISSIONS in her program, not FAILURES. For example, she did a single axel instead of a double. This is an OMISSION, a much more serious error than a fall. It is like she didn't do any jump. Another example was that she did a single lutz out of no footwork, and I believe the requirement was a triple or double preceeded by steps. This is another OMISSION, as opposed to a failure. As her combination, she did a very easy triple toe-double toe; as opposed to the top skaters doing 3lutz and 3 loops. Her base mark was VERY LOW.

    She started a possible 5.3-5.5 base mark (due to the triple toe combination) with 2 entire points removed for omissions by many judges. Her marks were down into the three's, and prompted one of Dick Button's best comments,

    "Oh she is just not going to get any marks at all for this......"
  18. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

    Susan Humphries fell on 2 of her 3 jump elements, including the combination where she didnt even try the hecond jump. Susan was 24th and Lu 25th so Susan directly beat out Lu for the last spot into the long program. I dont know why even with an injury Susan didnt just tough it out and do the long, she could have just showed up and done a bunch of singles and she still would have taken 24th place and gotten Canada a spot in the Olympics. It wouldnt matter how bad or how nothing she did, she would have still been guaranteed that spot just showing up to perform. She had toughed out the short program so she might as well have, rather than just WDing, and it turned out Canada had no spot in the Olympics when she then bombed the Vienna Cup.
  19. Seerek

    Seerek Well-Known Member

    The Susan Humphreys story regarding 1997 Worlds/1998 Olympics has been told many times, but the key inaccuracy in the story is the idea that all Susan needed to do was stand at the centre of the ice for 4 minutes to earn an Olympic spot. In fact, I believe that even in 1998, the ISU had a cutoff for 24 spots earned from 1997 Worlds to determine initial 1998 Olympics spots.

    In the case of 1997 Women's Worlds Championship results, the initial spots ended up going to:

    USA-3, FRA-3, RUS-3, HUN-2, AUT-2, UKR-2, GER-1, AUS-1, POL-1, SUI-1, CZE-1, UZB-1, JPN-1, FIN-1, SLO-1

    Therefore, it was 20th placed Mojca Kopac who was the last skater who earned a direct spot for the Olympics.

    The 21st (AZE - Julia Vorobieva) and 22nd (SWE - Helena Grundberg) placed skaters at 1997 Worlds actually had to go Karl Shafer later in the year to qualify for Olympics (which they both did).

    - Hungary and Austria ended up releasing their 2nd spots, leaving 8 spots available for the 1998 Olympics to non-qualifying countries to be earned at Karl Shafer.

    - Switzerland had earned a spot for the 1998 Olympics, but chose to not only not release the spot, but to not to send anyone at all (this meant at most, only 29 ladies were to compete).

    The results of Karl Shafer ended up being:

    1-CHN(went to Olympics)
    2-AZE(went to Olympics)
    3-GBR (not used)
    4-ITA(went to Olympics)
    5-SWE(went to Olympics)
    6-ESP(went to Olympics)
    7-SVK (not used)
    8-CRO(went to Olympics)
    9-RSA(went to Olympics)
    10-BUL (went to Olympics)

    Canada would have been next in line for an Olympic spot, though the Canadian Olympic Committee had put in an additional requirement for 2 top 6 finishes in Champions Series Events (for which only Susan had met the requirement).
  20. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

    great memories, thank you :)
  21. PairSk8Fan

    PairSk8Fan Banned Member

    Someone mentioned Elaine Zayak in the 1982 Worlds. I must disagree with this choice because it was not a terrible SP for Elaine. She fell on the triple toe in the SP, the second jump of her combination, and was 10th. That with her 4th in compulsories had her in 7th.

    She skated very well in the LP, but she doubled her triple loop. It was the fact that other skaters did so poorly that gave her the title, e.g. Binder, Wegelius, Kondrashova, etc......
  22. fenway2

    fenway2 Well-Known Member

    Thanks for clearing it up for me!
  23. cbd1235

    cbd1235 Well-Known Member

    It's still too bad she didn't even get to try the long as reigning world silver medallist and former world champ. One of those times where you wish the judges would have made a questionable call and propped her up a tad lol. Poor gal, great comeback the next year though (where she was undermarked in the SP :mad: ) I would consider that to be the best skater U-turn [in the right direction] I'd seen in a year. :)
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2013
  24. icellist

    icellist Active Member

    Caroline Zhang at 2009 WJC
    She was 10th in the SP and 1st in the FS
    Overall she was 2nd
    The podium that year was (G) Alena Leonova, (S) Caroline Zhang, (B) Ashley Wagner
  25. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

    LOL she was not undermarked in the short program at the 98 Games. Although she skated somewhat cleanish technically and had great artistry, almost all her technical elements were still mediocre to weak in that performance. She still was 4th in the short, and no way in hell did she deserve higher than that. Kwan, Lipinski, and Butyrskaya all had way better short programs, and I am not sure what the U.S judge who placed her over Butyrskaya in the short and gave her a 5.6 for elements was smoking. :lol:

    Personally I still think she was overmarked in both programs, and her bronze was largely a sympathy gift, and a compensation for past times she was undermarked in her career years past, but anyway..... I guess there was a case for her 3rd place in the long to be made, but definitely no case for her in the short. Had they placed her 3rd in the short they would have just made it all too blatant they were going out of their way to help her at that event from the start, and her bronze would have then created alot more controversy than the relatively minor amount it did at the time.
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2013
  26. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

    Thanks for that info. I did not know that top 24 wasnt good enough to quality a spot for your country at the Games anymore. I guess that explains her WD if she wasnt physically up to it, but I still wish she would have tried to tough it out. She fought hard to get into the LP, and some of the other lower end women probably would have bombed too in the LP, given the nature of the event. She still could have qualified Canada a spot by moving up a bit even with a likely poor skate.

    Wow she only missed it by one spot at the qualifying event. Didnt know she was that close. She must have skated super horribly to be 11th too in that field. I heard already she had skated awful and made something like 6 mistakes, so just one less would have gotten Canada in. So had Switzerland released their spot would Canada have gotten an entry into the Games then? From your breakdown that is what I am getting.

    It seemed she was too embarassed by the whole experience to even continue with the sport as she never returned, or the CSA may have let her known she was going to get severely dumped after failing to earn Canada a spot in the Olympics twice if she continued. Sad since her career showed so much promise back in 1994, and her winning the Canadian title in 1997 seemed to show things were back on track for her.
  27. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

    And what about Polina Korobeynikova at 2012 Cup of Nice ? She was 12th after the SP, and she won the competition ! LOL
    But her LP was not that strong...
  28. Erin

    Erin Well-Known Member

    Susan continued training for a couple of years after the debacles of 1997, so I don't think it was embarrassment that kept her away, but rather the further injuries she continued to have. It was also revealed later on that she had an eating disorder, which explained a lot of why Susan was so inconsistent and emotionally fragile. It likely also contributed to some of the injuries she had.

    As an aside, I'm pretty sure that Susan was 21st in the short at 1997 Worlds, not 24th. Interestingly, Wikipedia says she was 24th, but also has Fumie Suguri in 24th in the short, but has no one in 21st, so I believe 21st is correct.

    To make this post at least somewhat on topic, Susan had a good come from behind skate at 1996 Skate Canada where she was last in the short but 4th in the free. My pick for "best" though, would be Lipinski's 1996 Worlds, because of the size of the disparity between her SP and LP performances. I also like the mention of Kwan's free at 1997 Worlds because of the way it was breaking a string of several bad programs in a row. Slutskaya at 1997 Worlds was similar.

    One that I don't think has been mentioned yet is Lu Chen at 1992 World Jrs, she went from 12th(?) in the short after waxeling on her double axel to win the free and finish 3rd overall. Canadian Netty Kim also had a nice comeback in that competition, going from somewhere around 16th in the short to finish 7th overall and I think Jeff Langdon had a similar story, back in the mid-teens in the short to 9th overall.
  29. Lnt175

    Lnt175 Member

    I do agree with Ito at the 92 Olympics, while it wasn't a meltdown by any means, she still fell on the triple axel. That was a kiss of death in 6.0 era especially in the SPs (it also took Harding out of the medal hunt). She then came back in a big way in the LP, too bad it was too late at that point for the gold.

    Speaking of Lu Chen she also had a huge comeback at those same Olympics finishing 11th in the SP to move up to 6th overall while she was still a complete unknown.
  30. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

    Ito fell on a lutz in the SP not feeling secure in the 3 axel.