Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Vash01, Aug 29, 2012.
How technically strong are most bronze medalists for that to be a reasonable complaint?
It meets all of the fluff piece requirements. The struggles, the home court, the dedication to her mom, the iffy shot at bronze at best, her actually pulling it off, etc... It's the most sappy made for tv movie moment on the list, even perhaps more than lulu's comeback in 98 which is currently in 2nd.
When you're a Kwan or Debi and expected to take gold, perhaps silver and then only manage bronze, there's a certain amount of backlash.
Most of my favorites are from the wayback machine.
Pewter - Hana Maskova 1968 an athletic and original skater who should be better remembered
Bronze - Chen, 1998. Not so much for the skating, which was rough but for the emotions.
Silver - Christine Errath, 1976, former world champion (only big GDR skater not coached by Jutta Muller?) a stylish and athletic competitor who's also underrated
Gold - Janet Lynn, 1972 who virtually reinvented freeskating.
Why? Everyone else on this poll had glaring errors too including Kwan in 2002 and Chen in 1998. The one exception might be Chen in 94 but she still had alot of development left at that point.
As for those who think Nagasu's LP in Vancouver was better, Nagasu's LP was probably better than everyone else on this poll had she won the bronze as well. Remember the Vancouver ladies event was the best ladies event in history. Other than possibly the silver medalist all the other positions would have beaten anyone else in any skating or Olympic competition at the same position in history probably.
I voted for the lovely and talented Joannie Rochette.
It's not like Joannie didn't have any glaring errors either...
Besides, Lulu is still superior artistry-wise to Joannie as artistic as Joannie is.
Lu' 94 artistry is not superior. Lu's 98 artistry is probably superior (although she definitely wasnt up to her 95 and 96 standard of artistry) but her technical by then is WAY way weaker, even with Joannie making a bit more in mistakes (well only when thinking under Chen's own scoring system of the time, under COP nearly every jump she did in 98 would have been <). I am surprised Lu's 98 has so many votes as it is, far more than I am surprised at Joannie leading this poll. I would have expected her 94 performance to have more. In a head to head competition Chen from 94, Kwan from 2002, Rochette from 2010, would have all easily beaten Chen from 98. It is obvious many are just going for the personal victory or emotion of the performance aspect, not the best quality skate. She after all barely edged a mediocre Butyrskaya with major mistakes, limited technical content, and a nervy, stiff, and joyless performance which was overall about 55% of the caliber of her World title winning performance to that same program the very next year.
On another note there are many who didnt agree with Chen's 98 bronze too, in fact more than disagreed with Joannie's in 2010 which were mostly a few overenthusiastic Nagasu ubers, and this despite the overall competition was far below the 2010 level.
Yeah, this is probably the only FSU poll naming the Kween as a choice, that she does not win. A lot of Kweenatics remain in denial about how she fared in both of her Olympics. Sorta like old-style Soviet Union, in which entire events were erased from history. Other than the falls, I thought that Michelle skated a more pleasant (less tight) Olys LP in 2002 than she did in 1998.
As for this poll, the absolute-best Olympics bronze medalist lady ever was Janet Lynn in Sapporo-1972. One of the greatest all-time skaters, period.
I don't find 2010 Ladies event to be that memorable. The winner was a forgone conclusion, more or less, and the 2nd and 3rd place finishers did not skate up to their full potential. 1994, 1998, and 2002 had more thrills and unexpected results.
Maybe, but when you have to go to the 12th ranked LP to find the first fallin ladies free skate competition, you've had something rare. In terms of pure skating, I'd love to see another competition of that leve.
Lets put it this way. Put all the Olympic ladies competitions from 1994 to 2010 and imagine what the results would have been. I suspect something like:
Gold- Yu Na Kim 2010 (duh). All 9 1st place votes under 6.0 atleast a 20 point win margin (short program alone would be atleast 10 points higher) under COP.
Silver- Under 6.0 Tara from 98. Under COP probably Asada from 2010 due to a huge short program lead over either Tara or Kwan from 98.
Bronze- Under 6.0 Kwan from 98. Under COP Kwan from 98 as well probably.
4th- Under 6.0 Asada from 2010. Under COP Tara from 98.
5th- Under 6.0 Nagasu from 2010. Under COP Rochette from 2010.
6th- Reverse of 5th place.
7th- Arakawa from 2006.
8th- Under 6.0 Hughes from 2002 I guess. Under COP Cohen from 2006.
9th- Kerrigan from 1994 I guess.
10th- Chen from 1994.
If we went down to the top 20, 10 to 12 of the top 20 would all come from 2010, as well as 4 of the top 6 as it is.
LOL. 2 votes for Debbi Thomas. I liked her, but...
Maybe they just really love compulsory figures.
Yes, that's what I thought after posting this. I read the title again, and it's about best performance, not LP performance, lol.
Indeed, her SP was really good.
But IMO, if we count only the SP, Nancy Kerrigan's 1992 SP was really special
I know a lot people talk about Lu was past her technical prime by 98, but her jumps in the LP were definitely not as poor as everyone makes it out to be. The second lutz would have been given a <, while the second triple toe (in the 3-3) would have been given a <<. The flip was borderline (it could have gone either way), and the first lutz was okay on rotation. It's not like Joannie didn't underrotate any jumps; if the technical panel wanted, they could have easily given < marks to her second lutz and her triple salchow (in the 3-3 sequence). Both skaters stepped out of the flip and Joannie also had a turn out on a double axel. So thinking in terms of that, I'm not exactly sure Joannie was so technically superior to Chen.
I also disagree that Lulu's artistry in 98 wasn't up to the standard of 95 and 96. That program matched and was probably even better artistically than what she put out in 95 and 96. There was just so much raw emotion that filled up every single second in that program.
And the results from each Olympics are all competition and sktare dependent. There are many posters who believe Lulu should have won silver in Lillehammer. I don't think anyone thinks Joannie should have won silver over Mao.
That's probably my favorite performance of hers.
Never thought I'd see anyone claim that. I thought Kwan was much tighter in SLC than she was in Nagano. The SP 3flip, the LP 3loop, the LP 3toe+2toe (meant to be a 3toe), the LP 3flip with the fall, all were tight and "white knuckled." Michelle's jumps were definitely not easy for her at that Olympics. I had the sense throughout that she was really fighting through everything, much more so than 4 years earlier.
Even Chen's rotated jumps were not very good by 98, her spins which were never that strong a suit sucked royally in 1998, and even her footwork wasnt much to note by then. Rochette of 2010 is easily stronger in every aspect of technical skating than Chen in 1998 was. I cant see anyone seriously arguing Chen of 98 had stronger jumps, jump combinations, spins, footwork, or even spirals than Rochette in 2010.
Yes which is why it is strange Chen's 94 performance doesnt have more votes, and her weaker 98 performance has so many. I already said Chen's 94 performance would have been a good choice, I have no idea why it has so few votes. If you want to talk about Chen of 98 along those terms though obviously NOBODY argues her deserving more than bronze (atleast there might be the odd homer who argues Rochette deserving silver in Vancouver, PS I am definitely not one), and there are even more people who debated Chen's bronze in 98 than try to debate Rochette's in 2010. 94 cant be compared as there was no skater of near the level of Kwan, Lipinski, Kim, or Asada at the time at that event, so obviously much easier to compete for more than a bronze, which is still as it was all Chen managed. I am alot more surprised Chen of 98 has so many votes than Rochette winning the poll.
Artistically... yes, 98 was better than 94 for Lu. Besides that, Lu still managed to say on her feet on everything despite the fact that half her jumping passes were underrotated. If we could smooch both programs together, then Lu would be winning this poll hands down. It's sad that she pretty much competing with herself and that her performances are splitting her votes.
Either way, I don't think things like footwork, spirals, or even spins are even nearly equatable from the old system to the current system. There are more demands now that skaters have to keep up with. Albeit, Lulu never had strong spins, it's not exaclty fair to say that the other technical parts of her skating was weak especially when under 6.0, they almost counted for nothing (especially in the LP).