Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by lala, Mar 25, 2013.
I am pretty sure Chan stole Judgejudy's chickens and peed in his garden!
Why not. It,seems only Candaians can\ have right to petition change iutcome. Seems like not to long ago thatthey bitched regarding a certain pair team who skated clean other mesessed,up abit even though claimed harder program . Canada CLAIMED CORRUPT JUDGING then. Nothing NEW Since U.S. FANS WAS CLAIMING CORRUPY JUDGING ALL ALONG. Did they Listen to us No. So now someone wants to petition for Dennjs why not, i think some fans are jeslt
think of it first I know I would have done for Michelle if I thought i would have done any good.
lol I don't think I was talking to you but rolling eyes because I couldn't imagine Kostner not winning Europeans with the great programs she has had this season, the amazing quality of her skating and her superior presentation.
Mao doesn't usually fall, her technical mistakes are of a different nature, so a more severe deduction for falls wouldn't hurt her often.
That would actually be a good strategy for any skater if the judges decide to punish falls more harshly, doubling or singling jumps if they feel the take-off or the position in the air is not ideal for them to do three rotations and land the element cleanly. We would probably see more popping but most likely less falling.
If it's such a scandal that Chan won Worlds (due to the short progam), I would assume not many people would complain if the judges marked down by more skaters who fall and the best skater with the most challenging content loses if he/she falls to a skater with less skill or less difficult content who skates cleanly because that's what most people wanted, no?
Love this one!
Yes certainly reflects on the writer!
People don't agree and people wouldn't agree on the specific circumstances if that happened. The dream that a judging system and judging implentation can be created that will forever quell the din of complaints about figure skating outcomes just isn't realistic. Its never happened and never will.
Should figure skating keep trying to improve how the system is designed and implemented? Absolutely. And a lot of good suggestions have been made in discussions here at FSU over the past two weeks. I don't know the best way to influence the ISU on this, but I think there's a more reasoned ground than the petition linked in this thread to do so.
If it makes some of you feel better Chan will likely retire after Sochi and then all will be right with your universe. Because from where I'm sitting I don't think anything is going to make some of you happy until he is gone because love him or hate him the guy is a skating prodigy and because of that he is going to score well. So find a quiet corner somewhere, rock yourself back and forth and know that it will all be over in a year.
As for me. I'm just going to appreciate what he brings to the table (regardless of where he lands on or off the podium) and be thankful I recognized and enjoyed it while it was happening.
The simple solution to this would be to have judges stop judging PCS as one mark. There are 5 judging criteria in PCS but you wouldn't know it because nobody has the guts to show variation in scoring. The majority of judges box skaters into scoring brackets and SS, TR, CH, IN and PE rarely varies between 1 point. As of now, if the judges think your SS's are in the 7 or 8's, then everything else will follow within 1 point(usually less). It doesn't matter if you have an empty program and your choreography is a joke *cough* Joubert *cough*, you will be judged in the 7/8's thus holding the skater up. Likewise, just because you land 3 quads in a program doesn't mean you deserve high 7's or 8's in SS.
This could still leave a skater like Chan with potentially a one fall advantage over a lesser skater and/or a skater with lesser content who skates lights out. JMO
Its possible if this outrage has reached enough of a fever pitch that Patrick may have now lost any chance at a gold medal Sochi, if the judges are more afraid of outcry if he wins than if he doesn't. The easy way out of this for the ISU is to have Patrick not win in Sochi so he may be biased against now.
I think there is pretty strong agreement that the PCS is not properly implemented by the judges. It seems to me that this is the kind of thing the ISU needs to be pressured on, rather than any specific result. Protesting a specific result tends to muddy all the issues in my estimation. I think the focus needs to be on remedying the perceived problems going forward.
All hail Kevin Reynolds, Olympic Champion...
You make it sound bad, But if someone competed better on the event, Yes, They should at least be considered the win, Even if they're "lesser" skaters,
And honestly, I Wouldn't mind having either silver Medal winning performance from the latest "Chan worlds" as my champion, Probably could even live with a couple of the Bronze ones,
But maybe for you if Takahashi, Kozuka, Ten or even Hanyu or Fernandez ended up winning those competitions, They would've been lesser champions,
It's not like there wouldn't be ANYONE of great skills stepping up
if the judging (especialy the horrible judging of the mens singles of the last 6 years) continues as it is nothing will be right in figure skating for a long time no matter who is skating.
Very true. I believe the only country awarded a second gold medal from any judged sport is Canada, and they have had it happen for them TWICE no less. Canadians are the biggest crybabies when it comes to judging, but go mum when it is them who get the gifts.
I'm sure he will win if he skates clean. I don't see anyone in skating taking issue with that. However, what I do think will happen is his scores in the SP will be kept very close to the others, and that his PCS marks will take a bigger hit than usual if he falls, opening up the chance for others to take it if they skate cleaner (still needing an overall polished and strong set of performances with good content to be Olympic champion). The main issue with this Worlds was that he built up such a big lead in the SP that he was impossible to catch, and a healthy PCS in the LP kept him competitive.
Now some people would say that keeping him close in the SP and dinging him on PCS if he falls isn't a bad thing at all - they'd say that's what should have been happening all along, so if politiking against him in the media is what gets the judges there, great. Others would say that it's unfair to keep Chan artificially close to others because what he does is that good that he deserves those leads - he's just that much better than everyone else and legitimately deserves a cushion.
For me it's a matter of degree - he's better, but four falls better? Two falls? It's hard to quantify. Ironically I think this year's result was not as bad as last year's. Ten was within 3 points of Chan's PCS in the LP, which is reasonable. Last year, I cannot understand how Chan deserved almost 5 PCS points more than Takahashi, whose performance was stronger than Ten's in 2013, IMO. Last year the difference between Chan and Takahashi was greater than the difference between Takahashi and Amodio/Joubert in PCS and I can't justify that.
So I actually see that the judges already are making somewhat of an effort to get Chan's scores down to earth this year, but it wasn't enough for Ten to overtake him, either because Ten isn't quite that good, or because he doesn't have enough reputation (I would give him some green blobs if I could ).
I guess my problem with the system is that I see where Chan's scores may be justified, I see where Ten winning may be justified, but I don't have confidence that the numbers input by the judges are strictly based on the criteria and what they see on the ice, rather than being due to politiks and reputation. So I can't quite agree with people that say the result can be explained by reviewing the protocols or that all is fair because Ten won the LP (but did he win by the right margin?).
This obsession with skating skills over everything else is the only real joke. Yes Kostner has great skating skills, as does Chan, but skating skills is only ONE aspect of the sport. A very important one yes, but it does not override all else. The skating skills excuse to give medals to Chan and Kostner (in Chan's case always gold) no matter how many times they fall, or any other deficits relative to their competitors sometimes falls short of making the mark. In Kostner's case I do think she deserved the silver overall at Worlds this year despite her mistakes (her SP score was quite the gift mind you) but only a Kostner fangirl or Cinquanata himself would deny she has had some blatant gifts in the past (eg- 2008 Worlds, a couple times at Europeans, maybe 2005 Worlds). She does not reach Chan's stratosphere of "held up" but she is one of the more overscored skaters through her career nonetheless.
I think it would be great for the sport of figure skating if people like you started watching tennis instead.
Totally agree bmcg. There's irritating, then there's "jesus h christ, will this person ever shut up?"
If my comments bother you that much that is what an ignore list is for, which incidentally is where you two idiots are now going, Adios and good riddance.
If you "believe" maybe you should make sure before posting. When was the second gold medal?
Wow, you really put things into perspective here, thanks for that. Can I ask, why do you even watch figure skating, let alone bitch about when there is so much strife in the world?
Do you really believe western judges don't collude? There is corruption throughout the world of FS, not just in Russia and eastern Europe. How do you explain the German and Canadian judges placing S&P 1st in the SP, despite their fall at the end, and the perfection of B&S's performance?
In Chan's case, you don't know if there was collusion because the IJS keeps the judges anonymous.
No, he is not. 'Everyone' does not hate him. He has many fans that will ignore his imperfections and justify his wins regardless of how he skates (to be fair, he did have some well deserved wins)
Stupid petition! So now any skating competition could be overturned if some people are not satisfied?! Dream on!
Unless you could find any wrong doing by the judges like in 2002 Olympics, this petition is not going to succeed. What a joke!
I will not sign the petition because I believe in not changing the outcome of sports once the competition/game is over. I don't believe in the second gold either.
YOU, Judgejudy, are the biggest crybaby when it comes to judging...not Canadians.
That is all.
I don't believe in the second gold either, not even in 2002 Olympics!
ITA with the above.
This petition and this thread indeed belong to Trash Can. Thanks to the FSU mods!
What you are implying is anyone that disagrees with you should not express his/her opinion on fsu.
ETA: This was meant for both you and bmcg. While doing multiple posts/quotes I did something wrong and only yours appeared.