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Ashley Wagner changes her long program back to "Samson and Delilah"

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sylvia, Jan 22, 2014.

  1. Sylvia

    Sylvia Prepping for club comp. season!

    The news was made official today: http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...lympics-figure-skating-ashley-wagner/4733375/

    ETA: I believe Helene Elliott of the Los Angeles Times should be credited with the "scoop" - here is the article link posted by lahaa968 below: http://www.latimes.com/sports/sport...ating-sochi-olympics-20140121,0,4478863.story
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2014
  2. viennese

    viennese Well-Known Member

    Good move. "Samson and Delilah" is a strong program and she excelled at it.
  3. skatesindreams

    skatesindreams Well-Known Member

    I think it's a good idea.
    I hope she can get the program ready for competition in time for Sochi.
  4. luenatic

    luenatic Well-Known Member

    Change the SP too. Or at least re-cut the music, remove that screeching guitar solo section during the combo spin.
  5. Theatregirl1122

    Theatregirl1122 Enjoying Vicarious Voids!

    Wagner's SP has been very successful for her this year. Further, changing the long program is enough work and enough of a risk. Changing both would be insane.
  6. succubus

    succubus Well-Known Member

    I think this is a good move. I'm not a huge Ashley uber but I'm rooting for her to put on a good show with a lot of spirit and determination - S&D used to bring that out in her. Good luck to her and to our whole team!
  7. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

    But she is keeping the same element layout and just changing the music, isn't she? :scream: Or does 'The skate setup will stay the same.' mean something else?
  8. lahaa968

    lahaa968 Active Member

    I believe she was referring to the general set up of the program, element wise--in particular the jumps. That said, S&D and R&J have virtually the same jump layout:

    S&D: 3F+C, 2A+C, 3S, 3Lo, 3Lz, 3Lo+C, 3F
    R&J: 3F+3T, 2A, 3S, 3Lo+2A, 3Lz, 3Lo, 3F+2T+2T

    I'm guessing she will keep the same layout as R&J, e.g. do the 3Lo+2A first, followed by solo 3Lo after 3Lz.

    I'm happy for her; I think it will help her mentally. I will say though that the one technical weakness of S&D was the StSq. She received Level 2 more than once, never a Level 4. I though R&J's step sequence was much stronger and more complex, and I don't think she ever got below a Level 3. Maybe Raf can help out?
  9. just tuned in

    just tuned in Well-Known Member

  10. Coco

    Coco Well-Known Member

    Well, perhaps one of the reasons she had issues with R&J was the more complex steps, and doing them earlier in the program. R&J seemed more difficult that S&D in that regard. Her PCS were up this year, but that could be for a wide variety of reasons. Hopefully they won't drop now that she's going back to last year's program.

    I hope she rearranges the 3 jump combo because the way the 7th jumping pass is choreographed to the music in S&D is quite effective. It wouldn't be the same if it was 3f2t2t. Also, I think she needs the 3 jump combo before the steps.
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2014
  11. Iceman

    Iceman Well-Known Member

    Is Mills helping her bring back the program?
  12. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

    I think that R&J was not a good program. It was bland and lacked character. So this is good news. It's a shame Bourne didn't do both of her programs this season because she did a very good job with the SP.

    Their split wasn't particularly amicable so probably not.
  13. lahaa968

    lahaa968 Active Member

  14. lahaa968

    lahaa968 Active Member

    She said the new program “is a Frankenstein of a program,” in that it is pieced together from last season’s program, parts of her “Romeo and Juliet” program and some moves done at different stages than they were before.
    “The general setup of it is ‘Romeo and Juliet,’ but we took pieces from ‘Samson and Delilah’ that I really liked, and I liked the character at those moments and we kind of placed them in methodically,” she said.



    That said, go big or go home...high risk high reward.
  15. Jasmar

    Jasmar Active Member

    It makes it look like, under COP, excellent choreography to music doesn't really matter. Just the elements.
  16. MacMadame

    MacMadame Cat Lady-in-Training

    It sounds like she will keep some and change some back and so this will in some ways be a new program, just a new program that's been patched together from two old ones.
  17. Simone411

    Simone411 FSU Uber fan

    I think it's very good news, especially if she's more comfortable with her previous music. As she stated here, she didn't feel like a fighter. If this is what she needs to get into it, then by all means go for it.

  18. Lacey

    Lacey Well-Known Member

    Ashley, you go girl!
  19. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

    Bloody hell! :scream:

    So she did mean at least party doing the current choreography to her old music. Great. :wall:

    It's not very likely. :( Olympics are around the corner and there is not even remotely enough time to get comfortable with new choreography.

    Theoretically it does: http://isuprod.blob.core.windows.net/media/104183/program-component-explanations.pdf. But yeah, the reality of judging is that it doesn't really.
  20. pollyanna

    pollyanna In denial

    Glad she's changing the program, but I actually thought Black Swan worked best for her. Oh well, I hope the "pastiche" works. Good luck, Ashley.
    Wiery and (deleted member) like this.
  21. Coco

    Coco Well-Known Member

    Well I'm glad she's importing some R&J choreography because by comparison, S&D looked pretty empty.
  22. alj5

    alj5 Well-Known Member

    I think this is a good move to return to S&D, but I wish she would just go back to the whole program. But whatever, it's still better music for Ashley. She needs music with power and fire to match her skating, R&J is beautiful music and is a great program but it's not for Ashley.

    I would've preferred the Swan Lake program, but S&D is a good choice too.
  23. topaz

    topaz Well-Known Member

    LOL, it's pink floyd and you want her to remove the guitar solo from a classic rock song.
    AndyWarhol, IceAlisa, Coco and 3 others like this.
  24. lahaa968

    lahaa968 Active Member


    I still think the ChSq was wasted in S&D. Much more effective in R&J, especially the falling leaf into the luge...though she may keep that part since in both R&J and S&D, the last two elements are ChSq and CCoSp. :biggrinbo
  25. Spun Silver

    Spun Silver Well-Known Member

    Has this kind of last minute program change ever worked for the Olympics or Worlds? It smells so desperate. It is bizarre that it took her this long to realize R&J wasnt working.

    Whoever said above this makes music look irrelevant under the IJS is dead on. Good luck to Ashley though.
  26. lahaa968

    lahaa968 Active Member

    Shizuka Arakawa changed her FP weeks before Torino, and actually reworked some of the choreography/layout (since the original, from 2003-2004, was under 6.0). And she won!

    Also, Sarah Hughes changed the later half of her FP between US Nationals and SLC from Rach. 2 to the finale of Daphnis and Chloe.

    Stephane Lambiel changed his free program and re-choreo'd a new one three weeks before the...2005 WC? The King Arthur program.
  27. Spun Silver

    Spun Silver Well-Known Member

    Oh-KAY then! Go, Ashley!
  28. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

    It has received a fair amount of negative feedback. I am also surprised that this decision has been made so late. Maybe she wasn't fully happy with the program but the Nationals disaster was the trigger to change it.
  29. HeatherC

    HeatherC Go Team SW Florida! =)

    Good luck to Ashley! I hope this works out for her. I loved S&D so I'm looking forward to seeing this program in Sochi. :cheer:
  30. jenniferlyon

    jenniferlyon Well-Known Member

    If this is what works for Ashley, then she should do it.