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Arthur Dmitriev (sr) interview

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by TAHbKA, Jan 2, 2011.

  1. dinakt

    dinakt Well-Known Member

    It is also very different to tell a 25-year-old they are not good- or talented- at something, and to tell that to a 6, 12, 16-year-old. The margin of error and possible damage are much greater when evaluating children. Especially if doing something is a child's dream.
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2011
  2. Willowway

    Willowway Well-Known Member

    I find this comment a little confusing - at least from an American point of view. I agree that fatherhood comes first. A smart dad would deal with his son and maybe with his ex-wife and most likely, keep it in the family.

    I don't know how criticizing his son in public shows that Artur is putting fatherhood first; actually, I think it shows something else altogether - that Artur is caught in a bad family situation where he is (for whatever reason) a great distance from his son and not in the position of having a father's influence. That's sad but as we might say here "airing his dirty laundry" (the problems of his family) doesn't really benefit any of them. Rather it gives Artur Sr. a little opportunity to vent or take a dig - that's all. Better to stay quiet in public and put one's efforts privately into making the situation better.
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2011
  3. taf2002

    taf2002 zexy demon

    I totally agree with this. I am not an educator but my experience with young people is more like Prancer's than Rock2's. Also, despite cultural differences, I don't believe coddlying the young is a specific American or Canadian trait. My father's family came fromt the Middle East & their kids were more pampered than any of the Anglo-Americans I knew. Besides, the US & Canada are melting pots, thus there is no "normal".
  4. julieann

    julieann Well-Known Member

    If Artur were a world class gymnast would we be having this discussion?
  5. Asli

    Asli Well-Known Member

    No, because this is a figure skating forum.
  6. julieann

    julieann Well-Known Member

    Let me clarify :rolleyes:, people seem to be coming down hard on dad for the way he treats his son but I'm sure his mom is just as hard on him as well, she just doesn't grant interviews. She is a world class athelete herself, maybe she is no stranger to being hard on her atheletes as well as her own kid.

    I'm sure Jr. had his reasons for changing coaches, I guess he didn't want to be second best.
  7. Hedwig

    Hedwig WoolSilk Fanatic

  8. Prancer

    Prancer Slave to none, master to all Staff Member

    Um, people are coming down on Artur for what he said in an interview because it is such a public forum. Since the mother doesn't grant interviews, people can't exactly come down hard on her for the same thing.

    It has nothing to do with the sport and everything to do with commenting on what seems to many to be a personal issue. And yes, I DO think people would be coming down on her if she said the same thing and Artur Jr. were in gymnastics instead of skating.
  9. bek

    bek Guest

    Well I found Artur's switching pretty shocking because his dad works for Moskvina's camp and Mishin/Moskvina are extremely tight. Perhaps Artur is trying to protect his own interests by publically saying it was his wife/son's decision. I'm on two minds about this, one is my feeling that a father should always protect his child. But the other is that young Artur isn't really that much of a child anymore.

    I think that Artur Sr could have probably said he wasn't a fan of the break up in a better way, if he really felt the need to comment whatsover. I find comments like betraying coach etc to be a bit much. If the coaching relationship wasn't working for Artur it wasn't working, and I do seem to recall that there WERE some coaching switches back in the USSR. :lol:

    As for what system is better, I'm kind of different minds about things. I actually am not so sure if its so horrible for a child to have to try out for things, and not make certain groups. I remember when I was little my brother and I tried out for a special choir, I made it, he didn't. In other cases we'd try out for speaking parts in plays, he made those, I didn't. We were pretty young than and neither of us ended up really emotionally damaged.

    This being said of course if a child has already been part of a group and then is taken out of the group that can be damaging. And also there has to be opportunities for "normal" kids as well because not every child is going to have an amazing athletic, musical, artistic talent. :lol:

    I think a lot depends on parents. If parents make the child being part of a particular group etc, into a big deal than the kid will really feel the rejection. I think a mixed system is probably the best system. A system where people can fund their way if they want, but the talented and who can't afford can also get funding.
  10. SwingDancer

    SwingDancer Active Member

    How old is Jr. by the way?
  11. AliasJohnDoe

    AliasJohnDoe Headcase Addict

  12. TAHbKA

    TAHbKA Well-Known Member

    Taking Druchinina also works in Moskvina's group it makes Dmitriev's interview even more charming.

    I honestly can't recall coaching switches in the USSR except for Zhuk's pupils.

    Dunno, the whole interview sounds to me rather more like a `real honesty' by Dmitriev's standards than the actual thought of who he would be hurting or calculations of his own good behind it.
  13. Prancer

    Prancer Slave to none, master to all Staff Member

    Again, I am speaking strictly from my own experience and I am sure that someone will produce one or two examples of something else, but IME, tryouts for just about everything start around third grade. There are groups in which everyone can participate, but there are also plenty of groups where everyone can't. The former are more about having fun; the latter are more about competition.

    Maybe I live on an island or something, but I don't know of any school system that doesn't have competitive teams, varsity squads, honors and AP classes, and everything else that has to do with competition and selectivity. Everyone does not get a ribbon--except for the very young kids, and why anyone objects to that is beyond me. Or is it supposed to be that getting a ribbon for showing up when you are six ruins you for life?
  14. Domshabfan

    Domshabfan A proud P/C fan

    Dmitriev sr comes across as very straight forward person and will say out loud what is in his heart, so the people who know him very well will not be very surprised to here what he speaks. I think Jr should be very well accustomed those sort of words. well if he was hurt by them, one can only ask him.

    however my uncle who would say really super-critical remarks about people he cares about, but his children never take offense at his words, In fact they know how much he loves them. So only jr can tell us how he felt, till then it is how sr didn't make media friendly comment. It all comes down to dynamics of the relation between them.
  15. let`s talk

    let`s talk Banned Member

    Alright, I'll explain you things from a non-American point of view. If, for example, Artur (or whoever) starts talking politics and wouldn't be totally honest, next time nobody (or at least the majority) in Russian public will trust any single word in his interviews. People will say: oh, he said this and that because the politics made him say this and that, not because he is speaking truly what he thinks with an open heart.

    As for his family situation, he's fine. Even if someone tries to see the dirt that doesn't exist, the dirt will not show up. :yawn:
  16. Willowway

    Willowway Well-Known Member

    Obviously we don't understand each other. Artur already admitted to his less-than-terrific family situation by saying that he was not consulted by his son about this major career decision. IMHO, he might have kept quiet about it. What he said doesn't make him look good. You're implying that he he HAD to comment directly - he didn't. I think he had an opportunity (in the moment) to slam his ex-wife and son, and took it. Not very father-ly and a very clear indication about how poor relationships are among those family members.

    And I have always been a big Dmitriev fan but this is not a great moment. I come from a partially Russian-American (granted, very different from Russian) family, I have Russian friends and speaking negatively about other family members publicly? Never. Family loyalty and privacy is very important - I can criticize my family within my family all I want but outside the family? No. I believe it is important to many families (regardless of how famous they are) in Russia too.
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2011
  17. let`s talk

    let`s talk Banned Member

    Okay, we don't. So what? He was giving an interview to the Russian press and his target was to gain the trust from the local public by being honest. If you with "from an American point of view," as you put it, disagree, nobody in the public that he worked for gets hurt. Neither does he. Mentality is not universal.
    Right. His family situation should be left alone. If you don't mind...
  18. Willowway

    Willowway Well-Known Member

    Pretty funny. He's the one who threw his family under the bus in public, not me. If the trust of the Russian public is more important to him than the trust of his family - well, now we know how he thinks.
  19. Nan

    Nan Just me, retired

    Willowway, I'm just curious, did you ever have any problems communicating with Kulik because of an issue with your "mentality?"
    TAHbKA and (deleted member) like this.
  20. let`s talk

    let`s talk Banned Member

    He didn't. He expressed his opinion on a-skater-switched-a-coach. It was somebody else who assumed that his comments were caused by his custody/divorce issues. :rolleyes:
  21. portia

    portia New Member

    I think in this interview, AD Sr was speaking more as a coach than as a father? But somehow the line got blurred and he let his feelings as father/ ex-husband jump into the mix. In any case, it must be hard to be a father and a FS coach/ insider at the same time.
    let`s talk and (deleted member) like this.
  22. Willowway

    Willowway Well-Known Member

    Clearly I've offended some people with my view of what Artur said about his son's coaching change. That was not my intention and I'm sorry. I think Portia has a good point - if he was simply commenting as a coach that would have been one thing, but AD Jr. is his son and so his comments take on other possible shadings and meanings. That's the end of what I have to say about that issue.
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2011
    let`s talk and (deleted member) like this.
  23. Perky Shae Lynn

    Perky Shae Lynn Well-Known Member

    What??? I am sorry, I have to jump in here. Willowway has been one of the best posters here for years. Whether you agree with her (very legitimate, by the way) POV or not, there is absolutely NO REASON to get personal. It is such a rude and senseless comment. An "issue with her mentality"? Are you kidding me. :wall:
  24. Willowway

    Willowway Well-Known Member

    Thanks you PSL - I don't know who you are (except for your presence on FSU) but you're very nice and I appreciate it.
  25. Nan

    Nan Just me, retired

    This is a perfect example of a misunderstanding with the written word. My post wasn't an "attack" on Willowway at all. I was attempting to point out that questioning her ability to communicate with a Russian or understand the Russian "mentality" was idiotic considering her long standing association with Kulik.
    BittyBug and (deleted member) like this.
  26. Arthur and Tatiana had an ugly split. This is a dig at his ex-wife, and the son who sided with "the enemy"... I generally despise airing of family's dirty laundry in the media. Whatever Arthur's strictly professional opinion is (and he is known to admire Moskvina and Mishin greatly), as a father he should know better then throw his young son under the bus.

    Frankly, Arthur has been coming off as a little bitter lately. I really didn't like his comment about being a poor man. It's not like Averbukh had a ton of money or any special connections. His success was a result of the right environment, excellent strategy and a lot of hard work.
  27. Willowway

    Willowway Well-Known Member

    PSL, Nan and All - I write for a living (business writing) and this is why I can often be found at my desk pulling my hair out by the roots - the written word can trip you up so easily. How hard it is to be understood in any language in writing. The perpetual banana peel!
  28. dupa

    dupa Home Sweet Home

    Since when does fatherhood come first in Russian culture? I'm actually really curious because I've always had quite the opposite impression. Could be wrong tho.
  29. Michalle

    Michalle New Member

    I love Artur; his Liebestraum with Mishkutenok is probably my all time favorite skating route, but I have to say, he's always seemed like he probably wasn't the nicest guy in person - perhaps incorrectly, but he does give off a bit of a diva-ish vibe.
  30. Tinami Amori

    Tinami Amori Well-Known Member

    There are two extremes, both glamorized in Russian media, art, literature, film, etc.

    On one hand there is a forgiving, all sacrificing Father/Mother, who forgives the Prodigal Son, defends to the world an adult-child who took a wrong turn, etc., as symbolism of Christian forgiveness, “blood is thicker than water” concept, etc.

    Examples of such come up in folk stories and old legends, in various less internationally famous literature and films, etc.

    Folk character, Ivan the Fool, was always welcomed back into the family circle, no matter how much trouble his laziness and foolishness has caused the family.

    But in order to be accepted and forgiven, the “son’s offense” must be relatively mild and personal, and damage must stay with-in family’s frame work.

    On the other hand there is an image of a Great Leader who sacrifices son/family member for the good of the Nation, or if an offense is a serious betrayal.

    Peter the Great treatment of his rebellious and disappointing son Alexei.

    Stalin during WW-II refused to trade his son captured by the Germans in exchange for German prisoners captured by Russians.

    Fiction character in Gogol’s literary work, Taras Bulba, the Commander of Zhaporozhnyan Kossaks, shoots one of his sons, Andrey, dead, when finds that the son betrayed the Kossaks by falling in love with a Polish girl and living on the “enemy side”.

    Son’s any form of betrayal against Father’s clan, country, nation, cause, etc., is a major offense that was known to be punished by death and a welcomed result in such situation.
    poths and (deleted member) like this.