Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by alij, Jun 15, 2013.
yeah! go s/s. if there's no gold in pairs, do the ice dance competition
Braveheart. I don't even know if he's the first to wear a kilt, but I was totally and when I saw it... it was totally unexpected and voidy.
That's fair and reasonable.
From my POV, they skated to Enigma, Muse, Linkin Park, and Muse as their last four FDs in a row, and all of them run together for me thematically and choreographically (YMMV of course), so I always found it confounding that they in particular are constantly held up as an example of creativity. Doing that type of FD once or twice, ok, but I felt they found a niche and then plugged away at it year after year, and it could no longer be considered voidy or fresh at that point. But I think you are right that they (and Carron & Jost that season) were the first to use Muse. The alien FD was very reminiscent of G&P's 92 FD. They also had FDs to the Backstreet Boys and Nsync, again strange that someone would choose a boyband theme twice within the space of a few years. I really liked their Matrix. Many other skaters used it in 2004 (Joubert of course, Zaretskis, Zivanonic, Kovalevsky, Ponsero - not all of them used Clubbed to Death IIRC, but Kazakova & Dmitriev had popularized it already)... so yeah, they weren't really copying, it was one of those things where everyone collectively had the same idea. Matrix really isn't my issue though, it's more their last couple of FDs.
ITA with your other post about S&S' Pina - both a fantastic LP in and of itself, and then a standout in a collection of very diverse performances (Bollywood, Cirque, Adagio, Out of Africa, Pink Panther, Russian folk, etc), each one of which reflected the style very well. I've often said they put most ice dancers to shame.
On paper maybe. But during my training, I've had classes in France, Germany and the US and while one country called something modern dance the other called the exact same thing contemporary dance and vice versa. And before you suggest that the schools may not have known better, the classes were headed by nationally recognized choreographers and/or dancers. So, the vocabulary may be its own, but the style is not and it's not defined enough so that classes cannot be completely different from country to country or even instructor to instructor.
I'd actually go as far as to say that classical ballet is the only strictly defined form of dance and the only form of dance from which you can expect to know what to expect when taking class whether you go take class in Germany, France, the US or anywhere else in the world.
gkelly, thanks for the link.
Naaah. They won't come back. I sure think Gwendal has other things to do
Absolutely but I felt that those who praised Zhiganshina/Gazsi's free dance of last season for being creative and original had the theme in mind rather than the choreography/movement because I haven't seen any comment from them along the lines of "You know, I watched tons of zombie dances and I have to say that Averbukh's version is so fresh and new in the world of dancing." Averbukh has the merit of being the first to bring the zombie theme to ice dancing but copying the concept from others might not be the correct definition of creativity and originality.
And you would think that someone who hates the CoP would never want to come back and compete under a system that killed ice dancing.
I think Marina was also pregnant before Vancouver...
But so was Delobel...
The interpretation was spot on and they embodied the movement a lot better than other interpreters I've seen, and I would define this as creative. Averbukh might not have made up the concept or movement, but it had to be translated to the ice, and it was a creative insight to understand that it could be done and how it could be done.
I don't see an issue with calling something that's rarely been done or, especially in this case, done nearly as well in Ice Dance or skating in general, "original," because the context is original for Ice Dance. I would call Delobel/Schoenfelder's 2006 Mambo SD original, even though the street dance on which it's based has been around for a long while. There's almost no original movement in skating aside from the use of inner and outer edges and that was probably pre-dated by using the edges in skiing; the ability to glide for longer duration and in long arcs and circles is an extension of what dancers have done on solid surfaces for a long time or were aided by mechanical means.
My coach said the same thing.
Even after the choreographer has died, it is very traditional in ballet for a dancer he taught to teach the next generation of dancers how the choreographer wanted a piece performed. I remember a TV special once showing Baryshnikov teaching anther dancer a Balanchine piece, and he would correct the guy on how to move an arm or the tilt of his head with "Mr. B said..."
I have often thought it sad that skating choreo it treated like a throw-away commodity. Reusing someone else's old program wouldn't really work competitively, but I think it would be really interesting to select some iconic programs and have the choreographer or skaters work with some of today's skaters to recreate it for an exhibition or TV special.
Who would Zhulin skate with? Usova? Grisuk? Navka? Anissina? Ilynikh?
Should I make a poll?
No, sell it as a reality show.
Hmmm, Sort of like the bachelor? But I'd imagine that instead of a rose they'd get a headband. I'd so watch that
So the host would be Tatiana Navka?
Is there anyone on FSU who wouldn't? It would be truly great television.
Each week, the loser would be told "I'm sorry, you've been Zambonied"
Or whoever is being eliminated each week would just be hunted down by Skary Babs, then be given the death glare! Now that would be an epic elimination
With Zhulin, I'm sure he'll put the emphasis on "bone"-ied.
It's all gone quiet
Hope Anissina is training hard
"You have been COP'd."
"The Federation has spoken."
"These are your skate guards."
"Please pack your skates and go."
"I'm sorry, but you are not the Biggest Diva."
Has Marina been in the US since SLC?
They did COI in the summer of 2002 but they had left before the T. thing had been uncovered since that didn't happen until the summer of 2002. Since then, as far as I know, she hasn't been back. I'm not sure if she'd have been allowed in, at least not without consequences/conditions/difficulties.
Annissina was in some taped conversations but blocking her from the u.s.?
I think it was Mr T's alleged affiliation with the Russian mafia and Marina knowing him that is responsible for that. I did read that her visa was revoked afterwards and if that happens once, it's very difficult to get back into the US.
For what reason would she need a visa? As a French citizen, she is entitled to a visa waiver for most visits of ninety days or less.
Vagabond beat me to it, but I am fairly sure that France is indeed part of the visa waiver program. Or do skaters need a visa that allows them to work in the US?
What I know for sure is that you're not allowed to earn money through either the visa waiver or the simple tourist visa, in the US. I would think that athlete, especially those doing shows, fall under the "earning money" category even if they're not paid by a US organisation. But that's just an assumption. However, there are athlete visas, so I suppose she would have needed that. I remember I was a bit confused myself, I even read somewhere that she had had a Green Card which, unless she won the Diversity Lottery, I strongly doubt.
Visa regulations in the US must be one of, if not the most complicated visa regulations world wide, it's one big confusing pile of immigrant and non-immigrant visas!
Any notion of her returning as a serious Olympic-eligible contender is ridiculous rubbish. I had deep-belly laughter at the very notion of her coming back.
Athletes from visa-waiver countries need a visa only if they are competing for prize money: http://travel.state.gov/visa/temp/without/without_1990.html#overview.
Unless Anissina & Peizerat are somehow angling for a spot as substitutes at Skate America, that's not really an issue for them. And I doubt that Marina Anissina wants to do any long-term work in the United States.