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About Gracie Gold - Phil Hersh

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by sk9tingfan, Dec 21, 2011.

  1. Frau Muller

    Frau Muller #1 Dick Button Fan

    Did I write "media"? Sylvia, get your glasses on. Baga was hyped right here.
  2. Sylvia

    Sylvia Prepping for club comp. season!

    Your definition of "hype" differs from mine then. Baga never had 3 separate threads started by fans like Gold has had here in the past month.

    I thought Hersh's article -- the first mainstream article about her AFAIK -- didn't overhype Gold. In this Internet age especially, I agree that skaters who want to succeed at the highest levels internationally have to learn to deal with the attention and pressure from all sides.
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2011
  3. kwanatic

    kwanatic Well-Known Member

    Like someone said earlier, a lot of the attention is being brought down by Gracie and her team (ie. posting the video online). I don't think it's bad, but I just hope she's ready for the attention and what that attention means. Some times, especially when you're starting out, it's a bit better to fly under the radar...at least until after the SP! :) Now, coming into nationals, people will be expecting her to come in kicking butt...if she doesn't...well...
  4. 4rkidz

    4rkidz plotting, planning and travelling

    I totally agree, I know lots of young skaters who do the exact same thing - so I think to say her 'team' is putting out the info is a bit of stretch.. how satisfying to fall on a jump a hundred times and then finally land it. I find her very enjoyable to watch and unlike some other hyped junior skaters her technique seems much better. I wish we had someone like that here on the radar.. I also think people should really appreciate what a skater can do at the present time and not get so obsessed on the future. I absolutely loved watching Caroline and Mira as Junior skaters and nothing will take away from that, I totally appreciate the joy they gave me at the time and now understand they are different skaters as seniors with different bodies.
    Sylvia and (deleted member) like this.
  5. kwanatic

    kwanatic Well-Known Member

    That's a very good perspective to have and I agree. :) Say what you will about Caroline's weird technique back then, she was still a little dynamo during her junior years.
  6. Jammers

    Jammers Well-Known Member

    Lets just see how Gracie skates at Nationals before annointing her as the next big thing in US Ladies skating. I do like that she seems to have a good head on her shoulders and doesn't seem to mind the attention. With all the headcases right now in the Senior ranks it would be nice to see an american girl who isn't going to back down from the competition.
  7. orbitz

    orbitz Well-Known Member

    "Dynamo" conjure an image of someone's who dynamic, fast and exciting. I wouldn't characterize Zhang's skating during her junior days as dynamic. People went gaga over her because of her extensions and flexibilities and she seemed to feel the music that the other juniors weren't able to, but her skating was slow as molasses back then.
  8. bek

    bek Guest

    The difference though between Gracie and the baby Russians: Adelina, Tukt and Julia, is all three have won a lot of competitions. Gracie's won one Junior JGP and wasn't all that consistent last year. (which is why she didn't get a 2nd JGP). I'm not saying she wont' be the next big thing, but one would think they'd hold off just a bit.
  9. kwanatic

    kwanatic Well-Known Member

    Well personally, I found her skating to be very exciting and lovely. Dynamo is defined as an energetic person...I felt Caroline had an energy and spark about her when she was a junior that drew people's attention. Looking past her weird technique, she commanded the ice when she skated, in addition to being pretty consistent with her jumps, having amazing spins and flexibility, and lovely presentation.

    For someone so tiny, I thought her speed was fine...:p
  10. Triple Butz

    Triple Butz Well-Known Member

    I agree she seemed to have more focus and to connect with the music more when she was young. With her technique, it was definitely questionable in 2007 on the junior circuit, but it went from bad to horrendous over the next three seasons. The kicks and twists got bigger and all the jumps got slower in the approach. Her flexibility is still great, but not as eye-popping as it once was.

    She is making improvements and I don't know that she will ever threaten for a world team again but I hope she sticks it out for another few years and gives us some memorable performances. Her SP this season, for me, has recaptured some of the joy she used to have.
  11. demetriosj

    demetriosj Well-Known Member

    well then I guess the other Junior level skaters might as well not even show up at Nationals since Gracie has already been proclaimed the winner and the one the judges want to send to Jr. Worlds.......

    aren't there any other Jr. skaters who have all of their triples that might give her a run for the money???

    & if she would happen to have a bad skate(s), will the judges still let her win??/send her to Jr. Worlds??

    & maybe the Seniors should stay home too since Gracie is being sent to Sochi??
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2011
  12. Sylvia

    Sylvia Prepping for club comp. season!

    Here are the total scores of the Junior ladies that qualified for Nationals with 120+, along with their JGP scores this fall and jump difficulty so far this season:
    174.90 Gracie Gold, Midwestern Sectionals, 1st
    172.69 Gracie Gold, JGP Estonia, 1st
    151.92 Barbie Long, M2 (she attempts 5 different triples in her FS like Gold does)
    150.93 Mariah Bell, M3 (4 different triples in FS - 3Lz, 3F, 3S, 3T)
    148.43 Hannah Miller, M4 (4 different triples in FS - 3Lz, 3F, 3S, 3T)
    146.74 Hannah Miller, JGP Italy, 3rd
    139.50 Katarina Kulgeyko, JGP Austria, 5th
    133.07 Katarina Kulgeyko, Pacific Coasts, 1st (4-5 different triples in FS but inconsistent)
    132.95 Ashley Cain, JGP Latvia, 6th (4-5 different triples in FS but inconsistent & with occasional <)
    128.20 Gwendolyn Prescott, P2 (attempts 3 different triples through Lo in FS)
    125.83 Allison Timlen, Easterns, 1st (3Lz, 3Lo, 3T but inconsistent & with occasional <)
    125.59 Jessica Hu, E2 (3Lz, 3Lo, 3S in FS)
    123.55 Polina Edmunds, P3 (attempts 5 different triples in FS but inconsistent & with occasional <)
    122.09 Jenelle Herman, E3 (3T and 3S in FS)

    Gold may be the heavy favorite to win the 2012 Junior title, but ice is slippery and nothing is ever for certain.

    ETA this trivia - the last 2 U.S. Junior ladies' champions won their respective titles by 20 points: Courtney Hicks in 2011 (173.22) and Agnes Zawadzki in 2010 (171.87).
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2011
  13. JanetB

    JanetB Well-Known Member

  14. Sylvia

    Sylvia Prepping for club comp. season!

    Thanks, yes those videos were posted and discussed here months ago ;) -- 2011 Skate Detroit took place at the end of July. Wow, was it really 5 months ago that some of us were lamenting that she deserved a JGP assignment but was most likely not going to get one?

    Gold didn't qualify as a Junior for 2011 Nationals so it was actually quite amazing that she was assigned to even one JGP this season! She made a strong case for herself at Skate Milwaukee (in early July), Skate Detroit, and Glacier Falls (in early August).
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2011
  15. Coco

    Coco Well-Known Member

    makes note to self: attend Skate Milwaukee next year...YOU NEVER KNOW!
    Sylvia and (deleted member) like this.
  16. demetriosj

    demetriosj Well-Known Member

    ETA this trivia - the last 2 U.S. Junior ladies' champions won their respective titles by 20 points: Courtney Hicks in 2011 (173.22) and Agnes Zawadzki in 2010 (171.87).[/QUOTE]

    is Agnes Zawadzki injured this season?
  17. Sylvia

    Sylvia Prepping for club comp. season!

    Not that I know of, but Courtney Hicks is out for the season due to her leg injury/surgery.

    Last edited: Dec 23, 2011
  18. bek

    bek Guest

    Well absolutely, but I remember similar with Agnes, and look where Agnes is right now. Gracie seems to be a great talent, but she really hasn'[t proved her consistency yet, and I think hyping her this much when the consitency issue is such a question is a bit much. I do hope that she becomes what people are hoping for though.
  19. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa discriminating and persnickety ballet aficionado

    I suppose hype could help generate interest in skating, a way of advertising. And skating could use some interest.
  20. FSfan107

    FSfan107 Well-Known Member

    Honestly, no offense to Agnes or Christina Gao, but while their jumps were good as juniors, they are not in the same ballpark as Gracie's. It's Gracie's extraordinary jumps, speed, and power that have many people excited for her future.
  21. gkelly

    gkelly Well-Known Member

    Well, profiling a promising local skater in a local paper (as Hersh is doing here, in the broader Illinois locality) is one way to get local people to read about skating and to have a name to remember if they tune in to follow elite competitions.

    It's when the praise is so focused on the potential for what the skater might achieve in the future, but hasn't achieved yet, that hype can backfire. There's no way that every skater who gets touted as a potential world champion or Olympic medalist will live up to those predictions. It that level of achievement is considered the measure of success, then most skaters will fall short and be disappointments.

    It's probably counterproductive to get readers or viewers all excited about the next big thing when chances are someone else will be playing that role next year.

    When it comes to US ladies, I'd much rather see a focus on the depth of the field. Sure, profile individuals, but put them in the context of each other. Get the public excited to tune in to Nationals and see lots of great skaters, lots of great skating, see who will come out ahead this time.

    Which might take some of the pressure off any individual girl to live up to expectations of being "the one."
  22. overedge

    overedge Janny uber

    I remember a press conference in 2006(?), when the premier of British Columbia was hyping the 2010 Olympics, and he introduced Kevin Reynolds as the skater who was going to win the gold medal in the men's event in Vancouver. Just sayin'.
  23. Sylvia

    Sylvia Prepping for club comp. season!

    Last edited: Jan 26, 2012
  24. RockTheTassel

    RockTheTassel Well-Known Member

  25. Mayra

    Mayra Well-Known Member

    Hersh has put out some pretty balanced articles as of late. He's on a roll! :lol:

    :rofl: and :eek: on Cain's quote!
  26. Sylvia

    Sylvia Prepping for club comp. season!

    I'm reposting this excerpt of a post in the US international assignments speculation thread in the Trash Can because it's relevant here:
  27. Marco

    Marco Well-Known Member

  28. mysticchic

    mysticchic Well-Known Member

    Just an fyi! There was a lot of presure put on Gracie last year and she went though a huge growth spert. Her parents over the years tried hard to keep the hype to a min. I was at Mids last year when the growth spurt got to her.
    After a growth spurt these girls need to relearn how to jump! Knowing her parents they wanted to take it slow this year and let her rebuild. I was at Skate Detroit and she was a whole new girl. The US officals were falling all over themselves over her. But pretty much there was no hope of her getting a Jr GP. Until she got one.
    I think the coaches and the parents were on the right track not to push her and let her see what she could do. I also think her coach Alex was causious because of what happened to Megan Oster. Her parents didn't want her to go though what happened last year.
    This sport is known to chew these young girls apart and spit them out. Look at Nagsu, Zhang, Flatt ect. Hopefully this is a new route these girls can take.
    mag and (deleted member) like this.
  29. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa discriminating and persnickety ballet aficionado

    Yes, her jumps are out of this world amazing but what else has she got? The good news is that she seems to be well past the puberty monster so she should keep her 3/3.
  30. BigB08822

    BigB08822 Well-Known Member

    The way people talk about Gold cracks me up. Does she have work to do? Of course, who doesn't? People make it sound like she is the worst SKATER to ever step on the ice. Wow, she can jump but everything else SUCKS. Get real, she isn't even close to that point. She is 16 and everything else will come and what she does have isn't half as bad as people like to believe. I am really curious where this backlash comes from, are people intimidated by her? Maybe they perceive her as a threat to their favs?