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96 Olympics in gymnastics under 5-3-3 format

Discussion in 'Other Sports' started by judgejudy27, Dec 4, 2010.

  1. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

    If the 1996 Olympics had used the 5-3-3 format in gymnasts who do you think would have been the top teams and the formats they would have used for both prelims and team finals. I am thinking.

    Russian team: Khorkina, Kochetkova, Galieva, Grosheva, Dolgopolova

    Vault- Dolgopolova, Grosheva, Galieva
    Bars- Dolgopolova, Kochetkova, Khorkina
    Beam- Khorkina, Kochetkova, Galieva
    Floor- Grosheva, Galieva, Kochetkova

    In prelims Dolgopolova would sit out vault so Khorkina and Kochetkova could both do the AA. Grosheva would sit out bars. Dolgopolova would sit out both beam and floor.

    Romanian team: Amanar, Milosovici, Marinescu, Gogean, anyone

    With all the injuries I have no idea who the 5th Romanian would have been. They may have found a bars and/or vault specialist or something rather than taking a needless part like Tugurlan or Loalies. Anyway:

    Vault- Milo or vault specialist, Gogean, Amanar
    Bars- Marinescu, Milo or bars specialist, Amanar
    Beam- Milo, Gogean, Marinescu
    Floor- Milo, Gogean, Amanar

    In prelims the 5th gymnast would sit out beam so Amanar could do the AA. Marinescu would sit out vault. Marinescu or 5th gymnast would sit out bars so Gogean could do the AA. 5th gymnast would sit out floor. Belu be all too happy to remove Marinescu from any consideration for the AA before it even began.

    U.S team- Dawes, Miller, Chow, Moceanu, Strug

    I really dont see what Phelps would have added to the team in this format.

    Vault- Chow, Dawes, Strug
    Bars- Miller, Chow, Dawes
    Beam- Dawes, Moceanu, Miller
    Floor- Moceanu, Dawes, Strug

    In prelims Strug would sit out bars. Chow would sit out vault so Moceanu and Miller could do the AA. Chow would sit out floor, either Chow or Strug would sit out bars. And Strug would whine about being ineligible for the AA ad nauseum.

    Chinese team- Xuan, Huilan, Wengjing, Yuanyuan, Liya

    Vault- Yuanyuan, Liya, Huilan
    Bars- Xuan, Wengjing, Huilan
    Beam- Xuan, Yuanyuan, Huilan
    Floor- Yuanyuan, Huilan, Liya

    In prelims Kui would sit out bars, Liya would sit out beam, and Xuan or Bi would sit out vault and floor. Mo Huilan would probably be the only Chinese doing the AA.
  2. Buzz

    Buzz Well-Known Member

    That 5-3-3 format is just too scary to think about! But your picks are pretty close to what I would choose too.
  3. chipso1

    chipso1 Well-Known Member

    Yep, those are pretty close to mine, too.
  4. Quintuple

    Quintuple papillon d'amour

    Wow, really? I suppose you're saying this would be the 2012 format, so no compulsories?

    Chow on vault? Even though Miller was piked and had iffy landings, she generally scored well. And despite Moceanu's issues in finals, she seemed to to have a good Y1.5. I always felt Chow was too bent and crossed on VT.

    And Chow would sit out UB in prelims? Really? I know she's not everyone's favorite UB medalist, but ... she medaled, the judges loved her. Weird not to have her score for prelims, and no shot at EF.

    Was Miller the 3rd highest scorer on UB at the time? Although her routine interior was good, her dismount was problematic. Even though Moceanu sometimes had issues with her pak, I feel like she would score higher.
  5. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

    Sorry I meant Chow or Strug would sit out BEAM in prelims. Strug would definitely sit out bars in prelims.

    Millers best vault in 96 was a 9.9 start value vault. Her two 10 start value vaults- the 1.5 yurchenko and the Phelps she didnt do with enough amplitude or form to score well. So either way she wasnt capable of much higher than a 9.7 on vault. Neither was Moceanu though, and Chow scored about that too. So really you could use any of the 3 as the 3rd vaulter, it makes no difference. I went with Chow since she had a double twisting yurchenko. As it was both Chow contributed a 9.712 to the teams final score early in the lineup while Miller contributed a 9.700.

    Bars. Yeah in hindsight Miller probably wasnt the best choice for 3rd bar worker, but the team put her up last in compulsories and 2nd last in optionals so obviously were expecting higher scores than what she got on that event. So I think they would have used her. It also would have been embarassing for someone of Millers stature to only be put up on beam, and I already was predicting her off on vault and floor. Yeah probably Moceanu would score higher, or if it was a 6 women team possibly Phelps.
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2010
  6. asdf334

    asdf334 Active Member

    Bear in mind that line-ups were supposedly purely determined by scores at the Olympic Trials, (and possibly Nationals?) Under 5-3-3 the team would have mostly likely NOT been decided that way.
  7. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

    Fair enough. Still it seems the U.S coaches had a higher opinion of Miller's bar work than the Olympic judges turned out to.
  8. asdf334

    asdf334 Active Member

    I've heard a story that Jackie Fie had Miller's bars scores held down to ensure that Dawes and Chow would get into bars finals ahead of her, since they were the better medal prospects. With that said, I definitely don't think the judges at the Olympics were being unfair (perhaps being somewhat generous, considering the lack of wow factor in her routine - composition and execution-wise).
  9. BigB08822

    BigB08822 Well-Known Member

    I think those rumors make no sense. If Miller was scoring better than Dawes and Chow then she would have had the same shot or better during EF to get a medal. She was already a legend in Atlanta so the judges would have scored her the same in EF as they would have in compulsories and optionals, IMO. I know sometimes an athlete is scored generously because of their team or what not and then suddenly in AA finals and/or EF they get scored more in line, but this probably would not have happened with someone of Miller's caliber. So I see no reason to "hold" back her scores on bars. If anything, let her be overscored as it would have given her an even better shot at medaling in EF.
  10. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

    I have heard the Jackie Fie story too. I dont buy it however since Miller in fact scored lower in the AA finals (9.750) than she did in team optionals (9.787) for essentialy the exact same routine. So it seems unlikely to me her team score was lowered in this case.

    I didnt have any issue with Miller's bar scores one way or another at the time. It just seems the U.S coaches were expecting going in she would rank higher in scores amongst the Americans on bars based on their lineup order is. Which is why I think she would have been used as atleast the #3 bar worker, especialy since Phelps probably wouldnt have even made the team (unless it is the 6-3-3 format rather than 5-3-3). That doesnt neccessarily mean Miller fared alot worse than expected, but others like Chow and Moceanu fared alot better than expected perhaps. I dont think anyone predicted before the Games Chow would win the Olympic silver on bars even with her highly innovative and difficult routine. She had never come close to that kind of success before and she wasnt a big name. Dont get me wrong, I think she totally deserved her medal and am thrilled she got it, but I dont think anyone would have predicted it before the Games.

    The scoring on bars was confusing at times however. Mo Huilan couldnt crack 9.800 for amazing routines with only a small step on the dismount each time. Kochetkova didnt score higher than 9.787 on any of her routines I believe which also seemed low. Milosovici getting a 9.850 for a horrible compulsory routine without even a stuck landing, but then scoring very low for her optional routine which had scored very highly at Europeans (for the record I am more in line with the lower scores here). And then in event finals Dawes nailed her best bars routine of the Games and only got a 9.800 when she had previously gotten a 9.850 (team finals) and 9.812 for much worse routines. Khorkina also couldnt crack 9.850 when at Worlds the previous year she had scored 9.900 or higher 3 times.

    Miller would have bumped Chow out of bar finals had she gotten even a 9.825 in team optionals (Chow had a 9.837 but a lower compulsory score by 0.013). Had Miller been in bar finals instead of Chow I suspect what would have happened is Dawes moving up to the bronze, and Miller coming somewhere around 7th. So I think it worked out better for the U.S as Chow ended up winning the silver.
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2010