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Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Cachoo, Feb 3, 2013.

  1. Cachoo

    Cachoo Well-Known Member

    I was looking at the "From Russia" posts/vids and was saw a Russian girl doing triple/triple/triples. I was impressed. My question is this:

    What trends do you see in figure skating in terms of each discipline for 2018? I am not looking for specific skaters but which country might dominate in a particular discipline. Or is it too soon to tell?
  2. TheIronLady

    TheIronLady Well-Known Member

    I think Korea will have at least one skater in the top six.
  3. sk9tingfan

    sk9tingfan Well-Known Member

    Can you say growth plate injuries??? Let's amend that with "Future Evgeni Plushenko Back" syndrome
  4. victoriaheidi

    victoriaheidi New Member

    If a girl wanted to do a 3-3-3, wouldn't it potentially wind up a SEQ instead of a combo?

    I mean, if you have the tech ability to do a 3-3-3, you obviously have the ability to do a 3-3. And there's no way I can think of to have a 3-3 and a 3-3-3 in the same program without one being a SEQ.

    /OT...back to the question. I see Russia maintaining its ladies' dominance through 2018 but losing it sometime before 2022. Canada will fall into a slump in all disciplines. Japan and the US will maintain their strong traditions in men's and dance, respectively.
  5. sk9tingfan

    sk9tingfan Well-Known Member

    Last edited: Feb 4, 2013
  6. blue_idealist

    blue_idealist Well-Known Member

    Wouldn't a 3-3-3 be scored in the same way as Plushenko's 4-3-2s that he did around 2006? They counted as combos..
    If both a 3-3 and 3-3-3 wouldn't count as combos, the girls should just skip the 3-3s and do the 3-3-3s if possible.
  7. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Hates both vegemite and peanut butter

    Depends what jumps you did. The second and third jumps have to come off the landing edge of the preceding jump for it to be a combo. The only ones you can do which would make it a combo are the loop and toe loop.
  8. Proustable

    Proustable New Member

    Ladies: Russia and the USA, with Canada, China, and S. Korea sneaking in here and there. And France.

    Men: USA, China, Japan, Russia

    Dance: Russia, USA, Canada maybe, France

    Pairs: Russia and Canada
  9. JJS5056

    JJS5056 Well-Known Member

    A lady could certainly include a 3-3-3 in her LP and have it count as a combo- I'm not sure what scenario you are envisioning that it would be credited as a SEQ?

    The benefit of doing a 3-3-3, instead of a 3-3, would be that it would open up two additional jumping passes, instead of one. She could use that extra pass for a triple axel, if part of her arsenal, or something like a Tano 2z, which may not seem to add much, but we've seen medals decided by less.

    It's also possible to have a 3-3-3, 3-3 and 3-3 in the same program.


    Would be just fine: 7 triples, toe and loop repeated. 2a is limited to 3 per program, correct? Otherwise, replace with a 2f or whatever you so desire.
  10. Proustable

    Proustable New Member

    You can only have two 2As now.
  11. victoriaheidi

    victoriaheidi New Member

    I thought that the repeated jump had to be done in a combo once and individually once, but the same triple in two combos makes one a sequence? Or is it the same triple done out of a combo twice makes it a sequence?
  12. misskarne

    misskarne #AustraliaForTheTeamEvent


    Bionic Plushenko comes back to win gold in the mens.

    PeterG and (deleted member) like this.
  13. Sylvia

    Sylvia Prepping for club comp. season!

    Skaters are allowed to do, for example, 3Lz+2T twice in the same long program and it counts as 2 combinations.

    ETA: http://www.usfsa.org/content/First Aid Singles.pdf

  14. JJS5056

    JJS5056 Well-Known Member

    Thanks, Proustable. I couldn't remember if it was 2 or 3.

    VH, your second scenario is correct. If a skater plans a 3z and 3z+2t in a program, for instance, but ends up falling on the second lutz and misses the 2t, it will be marked as +SEQ and reduced accordingly. In the early years of COP, it would be marked as a combination and receive full credit, aside from the loss of points from the potential second jump.

    There's no rule against doing a jump in two different combinations, though; Yu-Na Kim performed a 2a+3t and 3z+3t in her Olympic free skate. Was it Sotnikova who was doing two 2a+3t in her free skates last year? Not the most inspiring choice compositionally, but well within the rules.
  15. maatTheViking

    maatTheViking Danish Ice Dance! Go Laurence & Nikolaj!

    I predict that at least 2 pairs team will attempt or have planned either a throw 3a or a throw quad.
  16. victoriaheidi

    victoriaheidi New Member

    Thanks, everyone. I knew something in there was a rule!
  17. Cachoo

    Cachoo Well-Known Member

    Thank you: I'm a little surprised that there isn't a young Chinese pairs team on the rise. About the 3/3/3's---if this is a sure precursor to back injury I'd rather not see it in competition. I'm not a Plushy fan but I felt badly for him--that determined look that was always with him was not there in the short. His eyes looked clouded over in pain.
  18. essence_of_soy

    essence_of_soy Well-Known Member

    I'm thinking that the short program elements will delete the double axel and replace it with a required triple jump with an edge or pick take off.

    Further to that, the combination may have the option of a double and a triple jump, two triple jumps, a quadruple and a double or triple jump, or a THREE jump combination of at least a triple jump and two double jumps.
  19. johndockley92

    johndockley92 New Member

    After doing the math here's what I came up with.

    A program with the following:

    3 level 4 spins ---- Halfway point
    3lz + 2l

    Even with 5 jumps (the hardest ones too) in the second half, the base technical is only 6 points higher than what Gracie put out at Nationals (66.49 compared to 60.31, using her as a base point because she had the highest base technical at nationals)

    Another option would be to do

    spins, spirals, footwork, halfway point
    3f 3l
    3lz 1l 3s
    3lz 3t

    That equals out to a 65.16 base technical, worth a point less than the first option. The solo flip and the sal in the three jump can easily be exchanged for each other at no cost (it's actually worth .16 more to put the flip in the combo instead). If a jumper could only do a toe combination (which is quite realistic, most cannot do both triple combos, although some can), then you can change out the flip loop to a loop toe for a -1.32 cost.

    A third thing to do, would be 3 triple triple combinations,

    3 spins, ch sq, stsq
    3lz 3t
    3f 3l
    3lz 3l 2l

    Such program would total 66.48 base technical. Pretty much the same as the first program.

    Any skater to do either of these layouts would obviously have to be well trained so they could do such difficult jumps past the half way point. Even with poor components, such a program; skated cleanly should put one on the podium at worlds. Gracie earned nearly 11 points in GOE at Nationals, if someone were to do a 66 point technical program and earn 77 total technical points, she would earn a higher technical score than 7th at worlds in MEN last year. Such score would be 14 points higher than the winning technical score in ladies last year !

    (Note, whoops accidentally posted this somewhere else first)
  20. Rock2

    Rock2 Well-Known Member

    Well first the Russian ladies will need to ATTAIN dominance before they MAINTAIN it. Oh yeah they got depth out the wazoo just like US ladies based on the kick butt Nats we just saw. Until they start winning world champs...

    I think we're going to see an awesome balance in quality ladies in the next cycle. North America is going to rise up again to match the deep Russian and Asian entries. Ladies are going to be super exciting.

    I'm actually envisioning one possible scenario where YuNa-Mao becomes Gracie-Kaetlyn. The Blonde Ice Maiden vs the Pony-Tailed aw-shucks Canadian. The ISU would pee themselves over a poster like this for one world champ after another. These girls are beautiful! Gracie is holding all the cards. If she gets programs that aren't so God-awfully sanitized and learns to control her nerves, no one will touch her. She is what the ISU hoped Kiira Korpi would have become.

    So, no, Canada will not fall into a slump. We're about to enter the best ladies era we've ever had and by next year Kaetlyn will be the best lady we've ever had. Dance is seriously deep and there's a good chance we keep all of our pairs after Sochi. I don't expect Patrick to win Sochi so he may stick around. Lots of great talent coming up, too (Firus, Gordon, Nam, Sadovsky). There won't be any slumps.

    As for elements, I'm seeing 3-4 different quads appearing for the guys. About five ladies will add a 3A. Pairs will be attempting throw 3A and maybe quad but I'm not convinced. Overall some minor upgrades.
    I'm looking for ISU to add level 5 in dance. All top teams hit level 4s now so winners almost totally determined by subjective PCS.
  21. Katarzyna

    Katarzyna Well-Known Member

    No more Ladiezzzzz! I too think that the ladies event will be the most exciting one to watch after 2014. :cheer2: