Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Emdee, Mar 23, 2014.
She may not get +3 GOE due to the tilt. But definitely +2
ICE TALK PODCAST - Ep. 7: Kaetlyn Osmond/John Coughlin
Nick McCarvel and icenetwork broadcaster John Coughlin take a look back at last week's Cup of China and preview this week's NHK Trophy. Nick also talks with Grand Prix Final qualifier Kaetlyn Osmond of Canada about returning to skating after suffering a serious leg injury and how working with a sports psychologist has helped her in her comeback.
Link to listen: http://web.icenetwork.com/fans/icetalk
Osmond's interview starts ~44 -minute mark, and near the end she talks about striving to make her jumps smaller and more compact to order to improve consistency.
Really? That doesn't seem right to me though it may well be the rule. If you begin and end a jump beautifully---so much so that people gasp---wouldn't that merit the full credit no matter what the air position is during rotation?
Air position is one of the bullets for determining jump GOE and that includes jump height, distance, form, etc.
So if skater A has beautiful jumps--some in accepted air position for full credit and some tilted for a point or two less and skater B has good technique throughout the jump but her jumps are not as high and do not cover as much ice does she get the 3 points even though some of skater A's jumps were often better then everyone in the field? I'm trying to understand how the extra points are awarded. Are one skater's jumps compared to the jumps of other skaters?
LOL, see why I asked the question?
Osmond has the most amazing jumps!!! But she has that tilt and still can somehow land them and even with incredible ride out. I had been wondering that as amazing as those jumps are if judges could still yet award a - GOE because of it....
I am just guessing here, but I suspect a judge could take off -1 for the lean, but if the rest of the jump is a +3 then they could still award +2. I know there are guidelines for awarding GOE, but I haven't seen a lot of evidence that they are used with any consistency. When KO is on and landing stuff she will get good GOE, when she is not, she won't, except when she will ...
Well that makes sense---but if skater B has a great skate, lands every jump with good technique but her best jump wasn't as good as skater A's good jumps then does she still get that +3? And then how does that handicap the rest of the field? I guess I think there should be very few +3 jumps in the entire competition because the ability to do breathtaking jumps should be that special. Am I wrong? I have heard these exclamations over and over again when Osmond jumps. When she is on her jumps are awesome.
The way I understand the judging system, the skaters are supposed to be measured against the standards, not each other. I think this proposed (or is it now approved to start after the Olympic year?) expanding the GOE range to -5 to +5. The judges could then make more of a distinction between skaters, if they will. I have been assuming that the factoring/scale of values, or whatever the correct terminology is, will also be adjusted so that awarding of the extremes will result in basically the same total points for a particular element that we see today, just that there will be more possible in-between scores to help sort out the skaters.
Thanks Skate Talker. Well whatever happens go Kaetlyn. She has been a favorite for awhile. I was thrilled for Ashley last year. I want to be thrilled for Kaetlyn this year. And Ashley too and Yulia if she makes it out of Russians.
See the last few pages on this document (I hope it is the latest version): http://static.isu.org/media/1003/2000-sptc-sov-and-goe-2016-2017_revised-july-14.pdf
There are a list of criteria to consider, and each jump can be given +3 (to start with) if it is regarded to have achieved 6 or above criteria, and then the judge will reduce or mandatorily assign a GOE for mistakes/ quality deficiency. Note air position is not an original criterion (which said VARIED air position), but a poor air position can be a cause for reduction.
Well done, Kaetlyn. Looking forward to a wonderful free tomorrow!
I have not seen it yet but saw the score---You go girl! Excellent job.
Her jumps were on. Such beautiful flowing edges out of her jumps.
Kaetlyn!! SP was great!! Go get the FS!!
I wasn't buying into Kaetlyn before this season, but the SP is really something, and her speed in it is truly special. I actually felt like the SP yesterday had less of a wow factor in terms of jumps when compared to earlier in the season, but it could just be that I've seen those jumps multiple times this season, so they don't stand out as much as they did earlier.
I do hope Kaetlyn will go clean tomorrow, as her LPs this season have not yet reached their full potential.
She is such a quality skater, right down to her neck lines and extensions. Her 3F-3T is the single best element in ladies skating currently. I mean, Medvedeva is definitely the top lady right now, but her jumps don't have the wow factor that Kaetlyn's have (when she's on).
I wish her the best.
i feel she was robbed of a medal today that was her best long internationally , its nonsensical that a skater Like Miyahara can get scores like that for UR`S and cheated jumps and i fail to see what is so great about her PCS national bias is evident i guess the ISU have to knowtow to the japanese because apparently their fans keep the sport alive.
Kaetlyn was great and I know, so close, but she'll get there.
Congrat Kaet on a new SB in the LP
KO had a great skate ...happy for her.
I know a lot of people don't like this free program for her but I think it's a great vehicle and a better program than the short. It showcases the musicality, joy of skating and the combination of power and refinement that make her so great.
I hope she skates it cleanly at least once (preferrably at worlds) but the performance today was great, even with the flaws.
Wow, I came to this thread to post EXACTLY this! I know a lot of people find her LP ordinary or boring, but I find that it really showcases her natural musicality as well as versatility. It also allows her feel and express the emotions in this poignant opera, and the phrasing of the music showcases her lines and carriage very well. I don't know if the LP is a better program than the SP, but I do feel that as fun and different as her SP is, she is more "in sync" with the music in the LP. We all know she can do dancey and upbeat very well, but we've also seen many skaters who do upbeat well but just cannot skate a convincing classical program to save their lives. IMO Kaetlyn has proved that she can be convincingly at both and I love her for it (actually I already knew this when she skated to Carmen a few years back). In her previous outings even though I thought the program had a lot of potential, she tended to rush through and generally appeared to be thinking too much through the choreography instead of just feeling and expressing the music. I thought her performance at GPF was really beautiful as she finally allowed herself to just feel and breathe with the music. If she can skate with just a bit more abandon I think she could bring the house down!
From Kaetlyn's twitter: https://twitter.com/kaetlyn_23/status/807699120060239878
So incredibly proud of KO right now for 1.) even making it to the GPF and 2.) skating to the absolute best of her ability in both segments. Yes, she still fell a little short in the FP, but it was the best skated long program of her entire career. I like both her SP & FP and agree that they showcase her ability to portray different characters. If she always did upbeat and dancey, people would be kvetching about her "limited range".
I actually prefer her LP - I find the program goes by so quickly.
I thought her LP was great. Yes she had a couple of mistakes, but they weren't huge, glaring mistakes. She lost a few points because of them (would have come 2nd overall if she hadn't made them), but there were some big successes in that program - the loop for one.
I'm just so happy to see her finding her stride. I've been a fan of hers since she burst on to the scene in 2012. I've always been a fan of her huge jumps, her speed, her transitions and the way she grabs a crowd. She's grown so much since then. She still has all of those great qualities she had at the beginning but now there's maturity, elegance and refinement, which she lacked earlier in her career.
I love both of her programs this season. Her FS is one of my favorites and her SP is my favorite of the season. I think she left too many points on the table in the FS at the Final but I was impressed she was able to score that well. She has a lot of room left to improve. I think if Kaetlyn can start delivering with consistency those scores will continue to go up and she could seriously challenge Medvedeva.
She's pacing herself well to peak at the right time this season. I just can't wait to see what the judges will do with her if she skates two clean programs back-to-back.
I agree, and should this happen, I would promptly pass out because I would be so overcome with emotions of JOY and HAPPINESS for Kaetlyn.
From Beverley Smith's blog - The Osmond-Walia Accord: https://bevsmithwrites.wordpress.com/2017/01/11/the-osmond-walia-accord/