The Dance Hall, Part 4: To Helsinki & Back -- Seeking Rhumba Magic ...

[Sylvia]

Re-posting from the GSD thread: http://rsport.ru/figure_skating/20170518/1120623635.html

Google translated excerpt:
Figure skaters Elena Ilinykh and Ruslan Zhiganshin, who are in the [dance] pair, are included in the reserve squad of candidates for the Russian national team, said Alexander Gorshkov, president of the Federation of figure skating in Russia ( FKKKR ).
...
Coaches are on vacation, so we agreed that they come to us in early June to review plans and there we will talk about everything, "Gorshkov told reporters.
Earlier, a source familiar with the situation, told the agency "R-Sport" that Zhiganshin decided to end his sports career.

 

[levineismine]

I uploaded all my photos from Helsinki here, including 3 albums from ice dance practice (if you couldn't tell that's my favourite discipline ), enjoy!
https://www.flickr.com/photos/148084096@N05/albums

 

[chapis]

I uploaded all my photos from Helsinki here, including 3 albums from ice dance practice (if you couldn't tell that's my favourite discipline ), enjoy!
https://www.flickr.com/photos/148084096@N05/albums

Beautiful pictures!!

 

[aftershocks]

Interesting video on Scott Moir's roots and his family who hail from Ilderton, Ontario, along with podcast interview with Scott's mom, Alma (courtesy of P.J. Kwong):

http://www.openkwongdore.com/2016/06/06/episode-9-alma-moir/

Alma: "Scott's always been so passionate... he wouldn't make a good poker player because it shows on his face..."

P.J.: "Scott is so funny ... and he's such a good hugger..."

 

[ninalovesskating]

Could you imagine if all these Ruslan retirement rumors are just for strategy? So that the other teams just chill... Then just before the season starts, BOOM! Ruslena's here bitches! Back better than ever! Watch out!

 

[Sylvia]

^^^ Are you referring to this? https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/in...zhiganshin-retires.101277/page-2#post-5077313
ETA the post:

Today the coach of Elena Ilinykh and Ruslan Zhiganshin wrote to me that "Elena and Ruslan are sitting out the Grand Prix because of Ruslan having health issues" and "there is no question about ending the career".
I guess we will have to wait and see what happens.

 

[ninalovesskating]

^^^ Are you referring to this? https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/in...zhiganshin-retires.101277/page-2#post-5077313

No, I'm talking about the retirement article and talks in general that Ruslan is done with the sport.

 

[VGThuy]

Man, hope really does spring eternal in the human breast.

 

[ninalovesskating]

GP assignments are out. Smart/Diaz get a spot but Sara and Kirill don't? WTF

 

[chameleonster]

Was surprised that Parsons didn't get two right off the bat, but America is using so many dance spots that they'll have to battle it out with M/C.

Other new seniors like Loboda/Drozd and Abachkina/Thauron both got two, it'll be interesting to see how they do.

 

[VGThuy]

The top three World finishers ended up where we expected them to be following the trend from the last two seasons.

 

[chapis]

GP assignments are out. Smart/Diaz get a spot but Sara and Kirill don't? WTF

I guess the Montreal team had something to do with that.

 

[ninalovesskating]

I guess the Montreal team had something to do with that.

Well, probably, but shouldn't the Spanish fed or even the ISU do something about that? Unless they're trying to emulate the Russian Fed and drop some top athletes here and there... Just seems unfair to me that S/D get a spot and H/K don't.

 

[ninalovesskating]

Other new seniors like Loboda/Drozd and Abachkina/Thauron both got two, it'll be interesting to see how they do.

Would definitely be interesting. I think Loboda/Drozd is benefiting from the absence of I/Z... And well, the French got 2 spots because it's not that stacked within French ID.

 

[chapis]

Well, probably, but shouldn't the Spanish fed or even the ISU do something about that? Unless they're trying to emulate the Russian Fed and drop some top athletes here and there... Just seems unfair to me that S/D get a spot and H/K don't.

But this works like this, there are always skaters who get an assignment by invitation. It's unfair, but it's not new or illegal.

 

[legjumper]

Well, probably, but shouldn't the Spanish fed or even the ISU do something about that? Unless they're trying to emulate the Russian Fed and drop some top athletes here and there... Just seems unfair to me that S/D get a spot and H/K don't.

There are still a few TBD spots open. Zhulin should try to push for H/K to be assigned to one of those. And, you never know who will drop out along the way, which could also open the door.

 

[morqet]

Well, probably, but shouldn't the Spanish fed or even the ISU do something about that? Unless they're trying to emulate the Russian Fed and drop some top athletes here and there... Just seems unfair to me that S/D get a spot and H/K don't.

S/D were 10 places higher on the season's best list, & most of the teams between them didn't get anything either. And do you really think the Spanish Fed has the bargaining power to get their no 2 team in to an event, especially considering that H/K were only 48th on the seasons best list and there was no room for teams like Popova/Mozgov (SB29) or Coomes/Buckland (no SB due to major injury, but previously 2 times top 10 finishers at worlds), and the reigning junior world champions only got their single spot due to a host pick?

 

[DreamsofBliss]

The Parsons are going to be at Russia and may yet get the host spot for Skate America but I'm guessing it will come down to who looks better between them and McNamara and Carpenter.

I think H/K fans such as myself are still just frustrated and disappointed with what happened last season. I would have liked to see C/B get something, too.

 

[morqet]

The Parsons are going to be at Russia and may yet get the host spot for Skate America but I'm guessing it will come down to who looks better between them and McNamara and Carpenter.

I think H/K fans such as myself are still just frustrated and disappointed with what happened last season. I would have liked to see C/B get something, too.

Thanks for pointing that out about the Parsons - I'm so used to seeing SA as the first event!

I get your point about H/K (although I still would argue that the Spanish federation took the best decision wrt having a chance to get an Olympic spot, especially considering that H/K's SD score that put them in the running for the world spot was at a wildly overscored event), but there are about 15 teams with a stronger claim to either a 2nd spot or a first assignment, so I wouldn't hold your breath that they'll get anything.

 

[ninalovesskating]

S/D were 10 places higher on the season's best list, & most of the teams between them didn't get anything either. And do you really think the Spanish Fed has the bargaining power to get their no 2 team in to an event, especially considering that H/K were only 48th on the seasons best list and there was no room for teams like Popova/Mozgov (SB29) or Coomes/Buckland (no SB due to major injury, but previously 2 times top 10 finishers at worlds), and the reigning junior world champions only got their single spot due to a host pick?

Bruh, give me a break. H/K didn't have the stats S/D got because they weren't given the opportunity to do so. S/D competed in way more competitions than H/K. Let me remind you that H/K won the national title but because S/D, the second-ranked team in the country, had a score 0.10 higher than H/K in the short dance at a challenger competition, the fed decides to drop their national champions and send the second-ranked team to Worlds instead? Man, if that's not stupid, I don't know what is.

 

[blancanieves]

Bruh, give me a break. H/K didn't have the stats S/D got because they weren't given the opportunity to do so. S/D competed in way more competitions than H/K. Let me remind you that H/K won the national title but because S/D, the second-ranked team in the country, had a score 0.10 higher than H/K in the short dance at a challenger competition, the fed decides to drop their national champions and send the second-ranked team to Worlds instead? Man, if that's not stupid, I don't know what is.

Actually, it was H/K who had the highest Short Dance tech score by 0.1. Per the Spanish Federation requirements this earned H/K the World berth, but then the Federation decided to ignore its own rules to send Smart/Diaz instead.

 

[mollymgr]

Did Joti Polizoakis/Kavita Lorenz switch to Marina?

ETA: Never mind I found the coaching changes announcement link by Sylvia.
https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/index.php?threads/2017-18-coaching-changes.101169/#post-5067833

 

[VGThuy]

Bruh, give me a break. H/K didn't have the stats S/D got because they weren't given the opportunity to do so. S/D competed in way more competitions than H/K. Let me remind you that H/K won the national title but because S/D, the second-ranked team in the country, had a score 0.10 higher than H/K in the short dance at a challenger competition, the fed decides to drop their national champions and send the second-ranked team to Worlds instead? Man, if that's not stupid, I don't know what is.

That may be true but that does not take away from anything that morquet said. The GP selections outside host picks go by numbers. Even if the way the numbers are calculated or whether there was equal opportunity to achieve those numbers aren't the most fair it's still the way it's done.

On another note, what is the current status of both teams having all members be citizens in time for the Olympics and what the prospective chances that they will gain citizenship in time?

 

[aka_gerbil]

That may be true but that does not take away from anything that morquet said. The GP selections outside host picks go by numbers. Even if the way the numbers are calculated or whether there was equal opportunity to achieve those numbers aren't the most fair it's still the way it's done.

Granted, I do think H/K are actually stronger on the ice in terms of actual skating and they were certainly royally screwed out of the worlds spot. However, my argument about all of this isn't that H/K should have had the GP instead or should have also had a spot. I never thought H/K had the qualifications for a spot this season. My contention is that S/D also did not have the qualifications and should not have gotten that spot at SC.

This was not an "outside the host picks go by the numbers" situation. Two For the Ice made a chart showing teams that did and did not get GP spots and what their rankings were on the criteria used to assign spots. There are quite a few teams who ranked higher than S/D who did not get spots or teams who rank much higher on the criteria lists who should have gotten a second spot before S/D got the first. http://www.twofortheice.com/breaking-2017-18-grand-prix-draft-ice-dance/

*Min/Gamelin are the Olympic host ice dance team. They did finish 2 spots behind S/D at worlds, but are 26 on the world standing list to S/D's 49th and 34 (151.35)on the SB list to S/D's 38th (145.61).

*Coomes/Buckland were out last season because of injury. Penny was surprised that they didn't get an invite, and I think if the fed wasn't going to put them in under the comeback options, C/B would have known about it and therefore wouldn't have been surprised. They're ranked 28th in the world after having to set the season out. According to Kwanfan1818 in the thread in GSD discussing the assignments, "If the British Fed submitted them through the official process as return skaters, if last year's rules are used, their last SB gets intermingled into the SB list. C/B's SB from 2015-16 was 173.17, which would put them 15th on the SB list, and at the top of the list eligible for alternate's picks." That absolutely blows S/D's 151.35 out of the water. That's just numbers. They're also a team who has finished top 10 at worlds, on the podium at Euros, and medaled on the GP. That this team was left without a spot is the biggest headscratcher for me. Unquestionably this team is more credentialed than S/D.

*Mansour/Ceska weren't at worlds, but are #36 on both the world rankings and sb lists, putting them ahead of S/D on both of those criteria (or two out of 3 if you want to count a worlds appearance as a third criteria).

*Lorenz/Polizoakis are 32 on the world standings list and 28 on the seasons best list. They did finish one spot behind S/D at worlds by 2.75 points. However, L/P did beat S/D in the FD there.

*Upcoming juniors don't have the same guarantees, but both Parsons and M/C are ranked considerably higher on both lists. I'm guessing Parsons will ultimately get SA and M/C could end up with a second through withdrawals.

*FB/S. Historically, teams who are top 24 on both lists have tended to get two spots, especially getting within a few spots of top 10 at worlds. They're ranked 11th in the world. S/D are 49th. 11th highest ranked team in the world sure as heck deserves a second spot way before #49 gets one.

*Nazarova/Nikitin were 15th at worlds, 22 on the worlds standing list, and 27th on the seasons best list. They beat S/D by 27 spots on the world standings list and 11 spots on the SB list (with a score about 10 points higher than S/D, 155.35).

There are at least 4 teams who didn't get a spot who beat S/D on both world standings and seasons best criteria. There are another 4 teams who got one spot who should have probably gotten a second spot well before S/D got a first.

So, no, H/K shouldn't have gotten a spot, but S/D shouldn't have gotten one either. That they did, IMO, is just yet the latest gift that this team who's actual skating is mediocre at best has been given.

 

[ninalovesskating]

Granted, I do think H/K are actually stronger on the ice in terms of actual skating and they were certainly royally screwed out of the worlds spot. However, my argument about all of this isn't that H/K should have had the GP instead or should have also had a spot. I never thought H/K had the qualifications for a spot this season. My contention is that S/D also did not have the qualifications and should not have gotten that spot at SC.

This was not an "outside the host picks go by the numbers" situation. Two For the Ice made a chart showing teams that did and did not get GP spots and what their rankings were on the criteria used to assign spots. There are quite a few teams who ranked higher than S/D who did not get spots or teams who rank much higher on the criteria lists who should have gotten a second spot before S/D got the first. http://www.twofortheice.com/breaking-2017-18-grand-prix-draft-ice-dance/

*Min/Gamelin are the Olympic host ice dance team. They did finish 2 spots behind S/D at worlds, but are 26 on the world standing list to S/D's 49th and 34 (151.35)on the SB list to S/D's 38th (145.61).

*Coomes/Buckland were out last season because of injury. Penny was surprised that they didn't get an invite, and I think if the fed wasn't going to put them in under the comeback options, C/B would have known about it and therefore wouldn't have been surprised. They're ranked 28th in the world after having to set the season out. According to Kwanfan1818 in the thread in GSD discussing the assingments, "If the British Fed submitted them through the official process as return skaters, if last year's rules are used, their last SB gets intermingled into the SB list. C/B's SB from 2015-16 was 173.17, which would put them 15th on the SB list, and at the top of the list eligible for alternate's picks." That absolutely blows S/D's 151.35 out of the water. That's just numbers. They're also a team who has finished top 10 at worlds, on the podium at Euros, and medaled on the GP. That this team was left without a spot is the biggest headscratcher for me. Unquestionably this team is more credentialed than S/D.

*Mansour/Ceska weren't at worlds, but are #36 on both the world rankings and sb lists, putting them ahead of S/D on both of those criteria (or two out of 3 if you want to count a worlds appearance as a third criteria).

*Lorenz/Polizoakis are 32 on the world standings list and 28 on the seasons best list. They did finish one spot behind S/D at worlds by 2.75 points. However, that L/P did beat S/D in the FD there.

*Upcoming juniors don't have the same guarantees, but both Parsons and M/C are ranked considerably higher on both lists. I'm guessing Parsons will ultimately get SA and M/C could end up with a second through withdrawals.

*FB/S. Historically, teams who are top 24 on both lists have tended to get two spots, especially getting within a few spots of top 10 at worlds and. They're ranked 11th in the world. S/D are 49th. 11th highest ranked team in the world sure as heck deserves a second spot way before #49 gets one.

*Nazarova/Nikitin were 15th at worlds, 22 on the worlds standing list, and 27th on the seasons best list. They beat S/D by 27 spots on the worlds standing list and 11 spots on the SB list (with a score about 10 points higher than S/D, 155.35).

There are at least 4 teams who didn't get a spot who beat S/D on both world standings and seasons best criteria. There are another 4 teams who got one spot who should have probably gotten a second spot well before S/D got a first.

So, no, H/K shouldn't have gotten a spot, but S/D shouldn't have gotten one either. That they did, IMO, is just yet the latest gift that this team who's actual skating is mediocre at best has been given.

Well said.

 

[VGThuy]

Well said.

I agree well said on aka_gerbil's part, but your whole spiel was about H/K.

 

[ninalovesskating]

I agree well said on aka_gerbil's part, but your whole spiel was about H/K.

I never said my point was the same as aka_gerbil's cause it obviously isn't. I just said well said to her statement cause I happen to agree with her point.

 

[ninalovesskating]

Apparently, Tim Koleto and his partner Misato have been married since January... Still can't get my head around it... Currently in a state of confusion and shock... I guess a congratulations is in order...

 

[Dobre]

So, no, H/K shouldn't have gotten a spot, but S/D shouldn't have gotten one either.

I tend to agree with you, but your list brings up a lot of question-mark teams:

Min & Gamelin got Kim & Minov's GP spot at SA this year ahead of other teams and did finish below Smart & Diaz at Worlds. I tend to trust head-to-head ranking at Worlds more than anything so I find that I have no problem with this. (Though I have a problem with M&G missing out versus Kuzmichova & Sinicyn, whom the Koreans defeated head-to-head at Worlds).

The whole Coomes & Buckland thing is a real what-the-heck-is-going-on? Do we have any proof that they were submitted as return skaters? On time?

Lorenz & Polizoakis got a spot so I'm not clear on the purpose behind this comparison. They didn't get two and would not have gotten two in a fair world either.

Mansour & Ceska haven't competed since before Europeans. Do we have any evidence that they are skating/competing/healthy? (I'm really asking because I would be happy to hear if we do). She is Canadian so certainly has her own argument for SC, but Kuzmichova & Sinicyn are off to yet another surprise invite. The third since M&C defeated them at Nationals.

The Parsons, Fournier-Beaudry & Sorenson, McNamara & Carpenter, and Nazarova & Nikitin were deliberately skipped for a second spot. And as a serious fan of M&C and N&N as well as having the best dance teams on the ice in competition, I find this frustrating! But we aren't talking about a second spot with Smart & Diaz. Countries have the option of inviting teams lower on the list rather than offering second spots to teams outside the top 10 from Worlds.

Jakushina & Nevskiy were skipped. Are they continuing? They went down to S&D and finished 29th at Worlds so again, I don't really have a problem with this. J&N are only high on the SD list because they went to Tallinn.

Popova & Mozgov were also skipped. Have they been seen since before Russian Nationals? Do we know they are skating/together/healthy? I'd like to think they are in the running for the host spot at Rostelecom, but without qualifying for Nationals, I'm not sure what to expect here. Russia may give that place to Evdokimova & Bazin again.

 

[levineismine]

^Agree with the reactions to some of the skaters being left out and others way lower in the ranks getting picks. Certainly Coomes/Buckland and FB/Sorensen would deserve more!

What do people think of the top skaters and chances of making the GPF?
Of course we don't know who will improve this year etc etc...

I assume the top 3 from Worlds will make it to the GPF without problems. The Shibs who are the most 'vulnerable' of the top 3 actually got the best fields I thin (facing B/S at Rostelecom and C/L at home at SA).

The other 3 spots may be like last year, between C/B, H/D, W/P, B/S, and C/L.
(as said, of course other teams around the top 10 could improve e.g. G/P or S/B, but atm it looks like we have these 8 teams running for GPF spots/ medals at the big championships).