Savchenko/Massot Fan Thread

[Mad for Skating]

I remember their coaches mentioning during their interview with Ted Flett the quad twist was not worth so many more points (Aljona likes to fly thanks to Bruno) whereas they worked on a hard exit which is worth more. You can see she exit towards the right on her inside edge instead of the left on her outside edge, much harder to do. It's explained here on the CBC broadcast .

And here is some answers from her coaches on her approach to jumps, not sure it will reassure you @Karpenko

Very interesting! Yeah, I noticed that a quad twist doesn't get much more than a triple twist. Unfortunate situation. I'm sure Duhamel has explained it someplace LOL.

 

[Karpenko]

I remember their coaches mentioning during their interview with Ted Flett the quad twist was not worth so many more points (Aljona likes to fly thanks to Bruno) whereas they worked on a hard exit which is worth more. You can see she exit towards the right on her inside edge instead of the left on her outside edge, much harder to do. It's explained here on the CBC broadcast .

And here is some answers from her coaches on her approach to jumps, not sure it will reassure you @Karpenko

I edited that interview for Goldenskate, I think that very long reply of mine was built up from when I was editing it

Sui and Han scored over 10 points for their quad twist at worlds so its worth it to train, a level 4 triple twist with a +3 will score no higher than 8.7 points. The difficult exit is a feature for the level. BTW I loved hearing more about them, they seem like fun personalities and I really like the dynamic/sense of humor they had in the interview. I'd never seen them in the media before.

 

[Mad for Skating]

I edited that interview for Goldenskate, I think that very long reply of mine was built up from when I was editing it

Sui and Han scored over 10 points for their quad twist at worlds so its worth it to train, a level 4 triple twist with a +3 will score no higher than 8.7 points. The difficult exit is a feature for the level. BTW I loved hearing more about them, they seem like fun personalities and I really like the dynamic they had in the interview. I'd never seen them in the media before.

I do think Aliona and Bruno are the only pair who could challenge Sui/Han on twist. T/M have a sloppy catch on their quad, and Duhamel/Radford and Stolbova/Klimov both struggle with getting high-level twist.
I honestly love pairs just for the pair girls' personalities LOL.

 

[Karpenko]

They're pretty fearless and the most fun personalities overall, I agree with you there.

Sui and Han have a fab 4twist and don't even get as high in the air... so there's the cliffs notes explanation on why they should train it. Put it in the program only if it's looking like a +3 in training.

Yu/Zhang have potential to clean theirs up to be really nice too, they've got the 2nd best twist behind Savchenko/Massot IMO. (Knierims 3rd)

 

[cocotaffy]

I edited that interview for Goldenskate, I think that very long reply of mine was built up from when I was editing it

Sui and Han scored over 10 points for their quad twist at worlds so its worth it to train, a level 4 triple twist with a +3 will score no higher than 8.7 points. The difficult exit is a feature for the level. BTW I loved hearing more about them, they seem like fun personalities and I really like the dynamic/sense of humor they had in the interview. I'd never seen them in the media before.

for the editing and for quoting it back to you when you must know this interview inside out
I too think they should go for the quad twist, but from the look of things, Aljona seems to be so focus on jumps esp. 3A and Quad, I have a feeling she might be the one postponing the 4 twist. They don't look sold on it as a team which is a pity for us because it would be a beauty to behold. She could catch the pigeons flying at Trophee de France next season

I loved this interview, those two coaches sounds like a fun pair who knows how to handle this team. Xavier Ballester looks so mischievous. And I didn't expect Bruno to be so outspoken and hot blooded, he looks like a big marshmallow but appearances can be misleading it seems. Well good on him to be more grounded and improved to much his work ethic.

 

[Karpenko]

She could catch the pigeons flying at Trophee de France next season

PML

and she can release them after Adams LP so he ends with an extra flourish

I loved this interview, those two coaches sounds like a fun pair who know how to handle this team. And I didn't expect Bruno to be so outspoken and hot blooded, he looks like a big marshmallow but appearances can be misleading it seems. Well good on him to be more grounded and improved to much his work ethic.

yeah I would think he doesn't get that way with Aljona though, I'd hate to feel her wrath if I mouthed off to her. all she'd have to do is give a glare like Ksenia and it's over.

He improved so much from the GP to worlds this year, also much more invested in the choreography and performances. It all seems to be working really well, I didn't even know he had a back injury until after Worlds because of his improvements since the GP.

 

[Mad for Skating]

They're pretty fearless and the most fun personalities overall, I agree with you there.

Sui and Han have a fab 4twist and don't even get as high in the air... so there's the cliffs notes explanation on why they should train it. Put it in the program only if it's looking like a +3 in training.

Yu/Zhang have potential to clean theirs up to be really nice too, they've got the 2nd best twist behind Savchenko/Massot IMO. (Knierims 3rd)

Yeah, Sui/Han's 4twist rocks. She rotates SO fast!
The Knierims blow me away with the height on their twist. They're my secret loves.

PML

and she can release them after Adams LP so he ends with an extra flourish



yeah I would think he doesn't get that way with Aljona though, I'd hate to feel her wrath if I mouthed off to her. all she'd have to do is give a glare like Ksenia and it's over.

He improved so much from the GP to worlds this year, also much more invested in the choreography and performances. It all seems to be working really well, I didn't even know he had a back injury until after Worlds because of his improvements since the GP.

For years I've always thought Ksenia seemed like a younger, brunette version of Aliona. But I'm kinda surprised with Diva Stolbova this year, those smiles at Worlds and the pink dress and Clair de Lune...who IS this woman and what happened to the sassy, bada** Spell-On-You girl?

Bruno improved so much and I'm insanely proud of him He's like this insanely strong fortress that only adds to her star power, and yet he can be so graceful out there. They're a perfect pairing IMO.
He's so cute and yet he does have a strong personality, just a little more reserved than Aliona's. Once again, I find myself comparing them to Stolbova/Klimov in that area.

 

[Deleted member 19433]

I edited that interview for Goldenskate, I think that very long reply of mine was built up from when I was editing it

Sui and Han scored over 10 points for their quad twist at worlds so its worth it to train, a level 4 triple twist with a +3 will score no higher than 8.7 points. The difficult exit is a feature for the level.

Actually it's not, according to the handbook (at least it wasn't for the 2016-2017 season). I hope it will be in the future.
http://usfigureskating.org/content/2016-17 TPHB Pairs.pdf

 

[Karpenko]

Weird, so does it factor into GOE? They would get the +3 even without it. Does it count as a transitions boost? I've been brushing up a lot on my pairs COP this year, I didn't look that up because I just figured that it was a given. Either way it's a nice touch, you barely even notice it at first because he's so strong.

 

[Mad for Skating]

Weird, so does it factor into GOE? I've been brushing up a lot on my pairs COP this year, I didn't look that up because I just figured that it was a given. Either way it's a nice touch, you barely even notice it at first because he's so strong.

Let's face it, Diva Savchenko and the Massive Massot's twist is too divine for our humble eyes to look upon.

 

[Quadjump]

Throw 3flip is her thing though, she's landed dozens of beautiful throw 3flips with Robin throughout her career (and trained them with Bruno, there's a video of their Elvis SP in 2014 and it includes a two-footed throw 3flip https://youtu.be/eekVui48BlU) and the base value of the 3flip is a full point higher than the 3salchow.

They were 2nd at Worlds by less than 2 points, and she has shown in the past to be capable of a +3 worthy throw 3flip, which is worth virtually the same as a two footed 4salchow with -2 GOE. Plus the components are higher with a cleaner throw, to me it's an obvious place where they can pick up additional marks. (Plus the 3T step 3T sequence). Technically it's a safer bet to get 6-7 points on a clean throw 3flip than rolling the dice on a quad (which isn't realistic for them to land at the Olys, they haven't been doing it in competition and it's too risky for a re-injury IMO). Bruno throws her so (too) high, he just needs to tone it down a bit and I'm sure they could have a clean throw 3flip pretty easily.

The quad twist would only be beneficial if they still have the +3 GOE of the triple, if it's only a +1 or sloppy in any way it's really not worth it to compete IMO. But it's totally doable for them, safer, and I'd like to see them at least train it as a possibility. With a +3 on a 4twist they can gain an addition 2-2.5 points in TES.. wow I'm a nerd. But they have to be more math nerd, less kamikaze space cadet if they're going to make this OGM happen!!

Well welcome to the nerd club

I agree with you about the points. Aljona is just to ambitious. It might happen that she will miss olympic Gold because the program is too difficult to manage.

If you ask me they should have gone another way. Make the SBS jumps and the 3FTh and 3STh consitent on one foot and go for an insane 4Tw4 with +3 GOE. This would have been enough.

But Aljona is always like: " what the others are doing is not good enough for me." She want the 3ATh to be her element. But there has not been even one axel with positive GOE through all the years.

I talked with Alexander König about the 4Tw. He said that he was not a friend of the 4Tw because Aljona way up is so long compared to the way Sui has to go. Bruno is so tall and Aljona rotates slowly. It is not that easy as it seems.

If they go for the 4Tw it should be at least level 3.

 

[Mad for Skating]

Well welcome to the nerd club

But Aljona is always like: " what the others are doing is not good enough for me." She want the 3ATh to be her element. But there has not been even one axel with positive GOE through all the years.

I talked with Alexander König about the 4Tw. He said that he was not a friend of the 4Tw because Aljona way up is so long compared to the way Sui has to go. Bruno is so tall and Aljona rotates slowly. It is not that easy as it seems.

If they go for the 4Tw it should be at least level 3.

I have noticed that S/M don't have that quick rotation like S/H or S/K. But the height is insane.
I personally think she should polish up the 3A, abandon the quad, and hope for the best.

 

[whiteskates]

Well, whichever way they choose to go technically, I hope they skate their hearts out and win the olympics. I can't think of anyone who deserves that more than Aljona.

 

[supergirl573]

John Coughlin explained this on TSL's pair's Worlds preview: there is no way to safely train twist. Unlike throws, there is no harness. To train a quad twist, you actually have to throw the woman in the air, and that's not really safe. He said that it is not safe enough to justify the risk.

 

[Mad for Skating]

John Coughlin explained this on TSL's pair's Worlds preview: there is no way to safely train twist. Unlike throws, there is no harness. To train a quad twist, you actually have to throw the woman in the air, and that's not really safe. He said that it is not safe enough to justify the risk.

Gosh, that sounds crazy. In that case, stick with a level 4 triple.

 

[aftershocks]

I love Aljona and Bruno together. But that still does not make me forget Aljona's years spent with Robin and Ingo. Aljona did not do everything by herself. It took all three to achieve the greatness they achieved. And indeed it was so hard for them battling together over the years because their own federation tried to split the three apart. So, it was The Three Musketeers against the world in more ways than one. And the tension and stress took its toll on all three.

It must be said: if not for Savchenko/Szolkowy/Steuer, we would not have Savchenko/Massot. Also, pairs skating would be the lesser if not for both extraordinary teams (S/S &S, and S/M) and that's a fact. Aljona & Bruno do not have the time to truly achieve all that S/S &S did together. But whatever S/M achieve (and I sincerely hope it is an Olympic gold) it will surely have been built upon what Aljona achieved with Robin and Ingo. If S/M achieve ultimate OGM, it does not mean the partnership with Szolkowy and Steuer was lesser than in any way, shape, or form.


BTW, S/M's coaches in the interview with Ted Flett clearly stated that they did not see an attempt at a quad twist in the works because the way the current system scores does not make attempting a quad twist worth it, when they can just as easily receive a nearly similar high score with a well-executed high-flying triple twist garnering high GOEs.

 

[Karpenko]

I don't think anybody is insinuating otherwise?? I was a huge fan of Aljona/Robin and wanted them to win in Sochi.

I know that the coaches stated that, it wasn't from a lack of listening, but I still completely disagree with them because of Sui & Han's 10-11 point quad twist. They can't get a similar score to that with a triple, it's mathematically impossible. I don't see how training a quad twist is any more dangerous than a throw 4salchow, at least when it comes to season-ending injuries. Aljona is very stubborn and it's partly why I love her, I just wish they wouldn't risk her ankle again with training 2 outrageous throws.

 

[aftershocks]

^^ Of course @Karpenko. I should have been more specific. I wasn't referring to anyone's recent comments in this thread. It was just something one of the coaches mentioned in comparing a technique thing between Szolkowy and Massot re the 3-twist that had me rubbing a sore spot in how some people have put Robin down, and how Ingo has been seemingly left out to pasture these days.

Of course, with Bruno, they understandably had a lot of technique adjustments to make because of the greater difference in height. I do not think the coaches were being dismissive of Robin at all with that comment. However, there have been a number of fans who have been cluelessly dismissive of Robin in some of their comments.

Plus, Aljona in her understandable desire to put the past behind her has said some things that she should probably have left alone. It was a difficult partnership with Robin because their federation (largely due to some jealousy and bitterness against Ingo for his Stasi past) made it rough for them to persevere together. Thus the tension, and also it's quite difficult to have an on-again/ off-again romance with an exacting coach, when you are also exacting and perfectionist. It was probably Robin's laid-back personality that served as a buffer to help make things work, as much as S/S &S's triple threat genius also did.

I would love to see Aljona and Bruno perform a quad twist. I was surprised to hear the coaches suggest that it wouldn't be worth it.

 

[Karpenko]

Honestly all this build up to the OGM isn't fair to them either. it would be such an awesome story though, especially to prove that you shouldn't give up, no matter where you're from and no matter what.

Wherever they end up it's been so much fun watching this team grow and develop, it's pretty incredible that they're even among the favorites after just a couple of years.

It's just - as a fan, I'm still dying my hair back from all of the gray hairs I've grown this year watching them go for the 3axel/quad at the end of a program. I feel like it'll all fall out in PyeongChang if they have a 3axel AND a 4salchow. so I'm partly being selfish and just thinking about my hair, but I'd love to see them have a completely full/healthy season.

 

[Mad for Skating]

so I'm partly being selfish and just thinking about my hair, but I'd love to see them have a completely full/healthy season.

I hear ya. My skin breaks out when I'm stressed, so I looked like I had chicken pox by the time Worlds came around LOL.

 

[rfisher]

I wonder if they'll rethink the quad given the season Duhamel/Radford had. Only the Chinese have a reliable quad throw now. (I don't expect Duh/Rad to be back on top for several reasons) So, the strategy for next season may not be what it was for this one. Volo/Trankov opted for clean for the Olympic season and it worked. But, Savchenko will do what she will do and Bruno follows her lead.

Gah. I'm already nervousing for them and for Stolbova/Klimov who are equal favorties. High level pair skating is so risky but it's thrilling to watch.

 

[aftershocks]

... It's just - as a fan, I'm still dying my hair back from all of the gray hairs I've grown this year watching them go for the 3axel/quad at the end of a program. I feel like it'll all fall out in PyeongChang if they have a 3axel AND a 4salchow. so I'm partly being selfish and just thinking about my hair, but I'd love to see them have a completely full/healthy season.

You have a right to be selfish when it comes to your hair @Karpenko.

Honestly all this build up to the OGM isn't fair to them either. it would be such an awesome story though, especially to prove that you shouldn't give up, no matter where you're from and no matter what.

Wherever they end up it's been so much fun watching this team grow and develop, it's pretty incredible that they're even among the favorites after just a couple of years.

You are so right about that logically and sensibly. But honestly, ummm ... I FREAKIN' WANT ALJONA SAVCHENKO TO WIN OLYMPIC GOLD ALREADY!!!

But yes, I will try to calm down and appreciate the fact that even Michelle Kwan didn't win Olympic gold, which is not a measure of her enormous contributions and achievements as a figure skater. Same goes for Aljona. But let's face it, Sui/Han will have another chance, right? Maybe?

Go Aljona/Bruno!

 

[Diane Mars]

I love Aljona and Bruno together. But that still does not make me forget Aljona's years spent with Robin and Ingo. Aljona did not do everything by herself. It took all three to achieve the greatness they achieved. And indeed it was so hard for them battling together over the years because their own federation tried to split the three apart. So, it was The Three Musketeers against the world in more ways than one. And the tension and stress took its toll on all three.

It must be said: if not for Savchenko/Szolkowy/Steuer, we would not have Savchenko/Massot. Also, pairs skating would be the lesser if not for both extraordinary teams (S/S &S, and S/M) and that's a fact. Aljona & Bruno do not have the time to truly achieve all that S/S &S did together. But whatever S/M achieve (and I sincerely hope it is an Olympic gold) it will surely have been built upon what Aljona achieved with Robin and Ingo. If S/M achieve ultimate OGM, it does not mean the partnership with Szolkowy and Steuer was lesser than in any way, shape, or form...

I Agree, BUT... There's something everyone seems to forget : Bruno was ALSO trained by Igor in Chemnitz while Aljona was there with Szolkowy ! He was with Daria Popova, at this time, but the were training with the same team, at the same ice rink....

 

[aftershocks]

I Agree, BUT... There's something everyone seems to forget : Bruno was ALSO trained by Igor in Chemnitz while Aljona was there with Szolkowy ! He was with Daria Popova, at this time, but the were training with the same team, at the same ice rink....

No, I have never forgotten that Bruno trained with Ingo when he partnered Popova. Not making reference to it, doesn't mean it's been forgotten. Later in S/S's career after their hard-won success with Ingo, French fed allowed Popova/Massot to train with S/S &S in Germany (of course, I don't know all the details of how P/M being coached by Ingo came about, i.e., whether it was P/M's initiative or French fed's decision).

Surely it was being around Bruno in the rink that eventually had Aljona beginning to think about what it might be like to partner with Bruno. Especially once she accepted that Robin was definitely not continuing for another four years, but that she wanted to continue competing rather than retiring to a show career with Robin. There was a lot of discussion on FSU when the news broke about the awkwardness and misunderstandings surrounding the situation of Bruno breaking up with Daria in order to partner with Aljona, and Robin's fiance warning Daria, etc. Maybe that's one reason why there's not much reference to Popova/Massot training with Ingo. It's not like they achieved tremendous success together, as they were still a young team looking to develop their skills. Bruno has improved by leaps and bounds since becoming Aljona's partner.

 

[annie_mg]

There was a lot of discussion on FSU when the news broke about the awkwardness and misunderstandings surrounding the situation of Bruno breaking up with Daria in order to partner with Aljona, and Robin's fiance warning Daria, etc. Maybe that's one reason why there's not much reference to Popova/Massot training with Ingo. It's not like they achieved tremendous success together, as they were still a young team looking to develop their skills. Bruno has improved by leaps and bounds since becoming Aljona's partner.

Not wanting to open an old chapter but what did Robin's fiance say? You can send me a message so that the thread stays clear of this gossip talk.

In any case I have always felt that it was S/S with Ingo that skating fans should be grateful for for this new era of pairs skating. It was them who first created intricate programmes that looked like ice-dance programmes with elements. I will forever be grateful for that and Robin was neither better nor worse than Bruno, they are just completely different!

I do see Aljona being more relaxed and happy though, but that's probably because she's happier on a personal level. Love is the answer, let's face it

 

[Mad for Skating]

I wonder if they'll rethink the quad given the season Duhamel/Radford had. Only the Chinese have a reliable quad throw now. (I don't expect Duh/Rad to be back on top for several reasons) So, the strategy for next season may not be what it was for this one. Volo/Trankov opted for clean for the Olympic season and it worked. But, Savchenko will do what she will do and Bruno follows her lead.

Gah. I'm already nervousing for them and for Stolbova/Klimov who are equal favorties. High level pair skating is so risky but it's thrilling to watch.

Sui and Han don't even always attempt their quad. I wouldn't say anyone in the sport has a consistent quad yet tbh.

Oh, don't get into the habit of being nervous for Stolbova and Klimov. To this day, Clair de Lune makes my heart stop beating from fear, even when it's Carolina's Clair de Lune, because I associate that music with being utterly terrified.

 

[Karpenko]

New snippets of the long program (with their music playing in the background? After Guns N Roses though ):
https://www.instagram.com/p/BTbrtr3BoUd/

The queen comes through again. I really like what she's showing of the program so far, this looks like it'll be more classical than last year but still contemporary with the choreography. That's fine with me. Yay Chris Dean! Also love the lifts already

 

[antmanb]

I talked with Alexander König about the 4Tw. He said that he was not a friend of the 4Tw because Aljona way up is so long compared to the way Sui has to go. Bruno is so tall and Aljona rotates slowly. It is not that easy as it seems.

Alexander Konig must know what he's talking about, however, i'm really surprised because to the naked eye the height on the twist seems higher than the throws (though you obviously have the length to factor in to the throws as well) and if she's rotating 3A and 4S in the throws, then i can't see how a quad twist would be a problem from a rotation perspective.

John Coughlin explained this on TSL's pair's Worlds preview: there is no way to safely train twist. Unlike throws, there is no harness. To train a quad twist, you actually have to throw the woman in the air, and that's not really safe. He said that it is not safe enough to justify the risk.

In terms of falling from that distance they could train it on dry land in a gym. When they first got together they posted loads of videos of them training throws into those sponge pits they have in gymnasiums, so there are dry land work arounds to get it. I guess the bigger risk is Bruno getting a broken nose while training it, and the torque to Aliona's back in the catch if she's not able to check the rotation well enough herself before Bruno catches and stops the rotation in the catch....that last one is the thing i'd fear most because the issue on all the big throws is that she can't stop the rotation.

 

[Mad for Skating]

New snippets of the long program (with their music playing in the background? After Guns N Roses though ):
https://www.instagram.com/p/BTbrtr3BoUd/

The queen comes through again. I really like what she's showing of the program so far, this looks like it'll be more classical than last year but still contemporary with the choreography. That's fine with me. Yay Chris Dean! Also love the lifts already

Gorgeous! This lady is out to win! Can't wait to see with all the jumps and elements filled in!

 

[care bear]

Thanks! Does anyonw know what shows they are refering to: Italy, France and Korea? And when they would take place?

In France it will be a trainings camp in Megeve in July.